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gale

Sep 7, 2004, 10:25 AM

Post #1 of 25 (4400 views)

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Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Hi, I've followed discussion on the forum re. the use of a voltage regulator to protect against episodes of low power. Question 1: Can I buy a voltage regulator there or is that something I should bring with me? Thanks. Gale

NickP

Sep 7, 2004, 10:41 AM

Post #2 of 25 (4394 views)

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Re: [gale] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Make room for something else.....support local merchants, buy locally.
All computer stores and cyber-cafes carry them.
Make sure you get a Voltage Reg with a phone jack to prevent spikes to your modem or you'll be playin' freecell should your phone line ever take a hit.

kirkswig

Sep 7, 2004, 1:58 PM

Post #3 of 25 (4356 views)

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Re: [gale] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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I tend to agree with Nick.

I brought a APC Backups 700W with me from the states. The thing isn't much more than a year old, and worked perfectly NOB.

Using it here in Mexico though has been exasperating. It works well when the voltage simply cuts out. But sometimes it will just wig out. The lights and air-conditioner will stay on, but all of the sudden the UPS sounds the alarm, and then a few scant moments later it cuts out. I've now experienced three separate occassions where my computer was prematurely shut down in the space of as many weeks. It never happened once to me NOB.

(BTW, there appears to be a pattern... the fool thing always gets panicked at around 7 AM, so I can respond by simply shutting down my computer for the night as opposed to leaving it on, as is my habit. I'm only guessing here, but might it be because local businesses are just then turning on their A/C's?)

So I can only surmise that it's a voltage issue of some kind. That some kind of fluctuation spooks the UPS into prematurely cutting out.

The UPS's available here (Walmart, Office Depot, etc.), appear to be locally manufactured (most expensive goes for ~$1380MX) so I'm hoping they are more aware of some of the electrical issues here in Mexico and thus better able to prepare their UPS's to deal with them.

(you know, I just realized, I'm talking about a UPS, and you guys are talking about voltage regulators... these are the same things, yes?)

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

Rolly

Sep 7, 2004, 2:28 PM

Post #4 of 25 (4352 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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A voltage regulator and a UPS are not the same thing, although I have seen a unit that included both.

You early morning problem sounds to me like you could use a voltage regulator in front of the UPS. That would make a nice package. I keep hoping that Santa will bring me one someday.

Rolly Pirate

johanson / Moderator

Sep 7, 2004, 4:07 PM

Post #5 of 25 (4342 views)

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Re: [gale] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Gale, I agree with what was said above. If you already own a voltage regulator or UPS that you like, and if you can get it down to Mexico for less than it would cost to buy another one down here, bring it down.

However if you do not have one, it's much easier to buy it down here than up north. Why? Because there is more need for one down here than up North (Here for me = ajijic-Guadalajara)

I use a surge protector, UPS and voltage regulator on my most sensitive equipment. I don't use any on refrigerators etc made in Mexico for Mexican use where we have greater voltage fluctuations than you may be used to.

Some folks may question my Sanity, but I don't even protect my 34 inch Mexican made and sold Sony TV.

I do protect my computers. and satellite receivers. It is important as Nick said to protect the telephone line and as I will add the feed from the satellite dish if there is a danger it will pick up a stray surge of electricity

kirkswig

Sep 7, 2004, 7:18 PM

Post #6 of 25 (4319 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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I just checked on APC's website, the model is a Backups LS 700, and it does have a voltage regulator built in. What is odd is that I repeated the ultimate test -- unplugging the APC while the computer was on -- and the computer was powered off immediately.

It was working shortly after arriving in Mexico. And now it's dead.

We did have a really weird power outage a week or two ago that left the neighborhood in an odd state. My air conditioner's compressor went out, but the fan stayed on. Ditto for the lights and the ceiling fans. But the fridge and TV were out. And so was the computer/UPS. My nextdoor neighbor had almost exactly the opposite symptoms (i.e., lights and ceiling fans out, but fridge and TV working.) And most of the rest of the neighborhood was pitch black. Maybe it was too much for the UPS to take.

Maybe bad grounding?

The darn thing's under warranty, but I imagine getting APC to fulfill that while here in Mexico would be impractical. And I'd hate to hand over another wad of cash for a new UPS just to find out that it is indeed the grounding and that my electrical system is a UPS-killer.

Sigh.

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

gale

Sep 7, 2004, 7:18 PM

Post #7 of 25 (4319 views)

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Re: [johanson] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Thanks all of you for your replies. I have a good surge protector which I will bring. I'll buy a voltage regulator for my computer when I arrive. As for a UPS, I had to look that one up - uninterruptible power supply. Expensive. Is that an essential item? And I'm bringing a Sony TV. So from the sound of it, I may need a voltage regulater and surge protector for that as well. Do these all hook up together somehow and then to the phone line? Formidable aspects of this move but I guess I'll figure it out when there (Ajijic). Thanks again
Gale

Rolly

Sep 7, 2004, 8:17 PM

Post #8 of 25 (4305 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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If the electrical grounding system was already present when you moved in, I would bet that it is no good. If you had a ground installed yourself, chances are it is OK.

Good luck

Rolly Pirate

kirkswig

Sep 7, 2004, 9:03 PM

Post #9 of 25 (4301 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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I know what you mean about the ground, given the state of many of the buildings I've seen in the local area, but my landlord is actually on the ball, and I think he built the place.

Also...

There's this little light on the UPS called the "Check Building Fault Indicator" and it's supposed to light up if the ground isn't set up correctly. And it's not lighting up.

The UPS self-tests OK -- even thinking that the battery is OK -- and I've checked the battery connection.

So... wow. Might this be my first computer component to be claimed by humidity? Man, if so, I'm in a world of hurt, cause all this stuff has only been here for a month or so.

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

kirkswig

Sep 7, 2004, 11:36 PM

Post #10 of 25 (4296 views)

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Re: [gale] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Yeah, I'm sorry about that.

A voltage regulator is a very different beast than a uninterruptable power supply. But like Rolly says, the latter often features the former, so maybe my confusion is understandable.

As to why you'd want a UPS, well, the voltage regulator will only help you when the power goes screwy. The UPS helps you when the power goes out. It prevents the power from being suddenly cut off from your computer, so you can save whatever documents you're working on and do then a graceful shutdown.

This used to be really important. You see, in the old days, people who wrote operating systems tended to keep a lot of stuff in your computer's memory that more properly belonged on your hard drive. That is, stuff that would be lost if the power went off.

But it isn't only the kind of stuff you're working on, say, an email you're composing or a drawing you're creating on the computer. The computer is working on it's own stuff, trying to figure out where to store your files on the hard disk, where to put that last bookmark you created, etc. And what happens is that when the power suddenly goes out and your computer doesn't get the opportunity to save it's stuff, then the computer starts acting wacky later on.

I have to say though that I've found that this isn't as true as it used to be. I've experienced a few sudden power offs with Windows XP, and now, a few power offs with Mac OS X, and I haven't really suffered as a result. In the past, such occurances often lead me to reformat the hard drive and reinstall the OS and all my programs from scratch, even before any anomalies were noticed. Today, the computers cleanly boot when next I turn them on, exhibiting no strange behavior thereafter.

So far.

if you have the money, and if what you're working on is really important, then get a UPS. It's saved my butt more than once. That said, if you're judicious about backups, or if all you're doing is stuff on the Internet, then you're not risking as much.

And I guess it also depends on where you live. The weird voltage anomalies I've experienced aside, the power has gone out twice in the three weeks I've been here. I depend a great deal on computers, so that makes me very uncomfortable.

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

esperanza

Sep 8, 2004, 5:05 AM

Post #11 of 25 (4288 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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"So far..."

That's what I thought, too, as I congratulated myself on having WindowsXP, which seemed to work perfectly when we had power outages here. Then a couple of weeks ago we had two on a single Friday morning and although Windows booted perfectly, pretty soon it started acting weird. Everything loaded like molasses, email took what seemed like forever to download, my monitor would occasionally go black while I was working here--a whole laundry list of symptoms. The worst was that Word, which I use about 32 hours a day, wouldn't work at all. I actually thought that I had a virus, my system was behaving so badly...but when I tried to do a scan, it took four hours to scan about 1/3 of the system.

After poking and prodding at it for a few days, I finally gave up and called the tech. He discovered that the Java program, which normally only opens when needed for a particular website, was opening at startup and running constantly. It's so big that it slowed the whole works down to an unusable crawl. It took him about an hour to figure out what the problem was and fix it.

Now I'm back to normal here, thank god. I still haven't bought a UPS, but I'm gonna. Once was enough, thank you, and I feel like I got off easy.

Oh yeah--the tech charged me 100 pesos, a very good price IMHO.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Sep 8, 2004, 6:06 AM)

gale

Sep 8, 2004, 5:18 AM

Post #12 of 25 (4287 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Thanks Kirkswig for the thorough explanation. I'm mainly on the net so think I'll start with the voltage regulator and surge protector and see how it goes.

Rolly, I'll check about the grounding. It's a newer built place in Ajijic that I'm renting so it might be ok. My FM3 is being processed as we speak. Next I'll be preparing my menaje de casa guided by your website.

Thanks all,
Gale

gale

Sep 8, 2004, 5:23 AM

Post #13 of 25 (4286 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Oh, oh. May have to rethink when I arrive. Thanks for your input Esperanza.

Gale

Papirex

Sep 8, 2004, 9:55 AM

Post #14 of 25 (4267 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Kirkswig, This might be something you have already done, but have you gone in to control panel/power and enabled UPS support? When I used W98, I just plugged the computer in to the UPS, and it worked. I now use W 2000 Pro and the UPS did not work until I enabled it in the power settings in control panel. Strange, but true.

I also use surge protectors on all our cordless phones. I lost an expensive cordless phone due to a power surge when we still lived in Anchorage. I use those little surge protectors designed for laptop computers. They have RJ11 connectors for the phone line, as well as a 3-prong power outlet. They are small, about the size of a pack of cigarettes. Ace Hardware recently opened a store here in Cuernavaca, and I saw some surge protectors there, that are designed to protect cordless phones.

We are subject to frequent power outages, etc. here. Hardly a day goes by that the power doesn’t fail, for a minute, a few minutes, or an hour or so. It is very rare when we can go a week without a power failure. We have had to buy several battery-powered fluorescent emergency lamps, and a propane fueled Coleman lantern. I guess that’s the trade off for living in the area with the best climate in all of Mexico.

When the lights go off, I tell my wife we should move back to the land of the 24-hour generator J

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

kirkswig

Sep 8, 2004, 3:03 PM

Post #15 of 25 (4251 views)

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Re: [RexC] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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I haven't bothered with the software side as I'm running on Mac OS X right now and I've had problems with their UPS software in the past, so I don't even have the USB cable connecting the two. But the docs say that's optional anyways.

(moreover, I just tried to power up the UPS and it now giving me a bad battery indicator light. Not very timely, but at least I think I know what's going on now.)

Thanks for the reply though.

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

Kimpatsu Hekigan

Sep 8, 2004, 3:10 PM

Post #16 of 25 (4249 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] APC UPS product Knowledge Base

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APC has a searchable Knowledge Base that may provide answers to your question of why your Back-UPS is cutting out here in Mexico.

I've owned an APC Smart-UPS 600 for more than 10 years now. When I first brought it to Mexico, it would cut-out, cut-in and otherwise act weird until I changed a DIP switch setting on the back to make it less sensitive to voltage fluctuations. Since then, it's worked perfectly.

FWIW,

-- K.H.

APC link is here:
http://nam-en.apc.com/...hp?ISOCountryCode=ww

gale

Sep 9, 2004, 8:12 PM

Post #17 of 25 (4210 views)

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Re: [johanson] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Johanson, and others who might have an opinion,

Would you advise using a surge protector and voltage regulator for an electronic keyboard?

Gale

Adrian

Sep 10, 2004, 4:08 PM

Post #18 of 25 (4186 views)

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Re: [gale] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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WARNING! TWO IMPORTANT THINGS...

...to check about a voltage regulator.

1. Look at the max. input voltage it can handle. Many of the cheap models sold in Walmart, Office Depot, Sams etc will only handle inputs up to 130V. More than that and they just let the raw voltage straight through with no regulation whatsoever.

2.Look at the output tolerance. It may be as high as +10%. Effectively, this means you can have an output of anything up to 128V with a nominal 117V input.

Cheap voltage regulators are not all they are cracked up to be. Saying that, it is important to bear in mind that switch-mode power supplies (such as those found in PC's and monitors) are incredibly tolerant of being run over-voltage for extended periods.

I have a regulated supply in my office but I use a 10A variable transformer to keep the voltage at a sensible 115-120V. This is preferable to the frequent 135V+ we get here in Tampico.

Adrian

johnv

Sep 10, 2004, 6:52 PM

Post #19 of 25 (4177 views)

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Re: [Adrian] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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I just checked my cheap Mexican Koblenz 750W voltage regulator purchased from Telmex for 250 pesos (US$21.75). At the wall the reading was 140 volts and at the regulator was 115 volts. So I guess some cheapies function ok.

johanson / Moderator

Sep 10, 2004, 7:59 PM

Post #20 of 25 (4168 views)

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Re: [johnv] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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The scary part about the cheap voltage regulator I got locally for about the same price is that there appeared to be three options. Either the line voltage was boosted by 10%, nothing happened or the line voltage was decreased by 10%. As long as the line voltage was between about 115 and 132 nothing happened. If the line voltage increased to more than about 132 , my voltage regulator immediately dropped the power level by about 10%. If the line voltage got below about 115 volts, the line voltage jumped up by about 10%. It was either full boost, no boost or full reduction, and nothing in-between.

This seems strange to me, but is apparently how it is done.

A couple of years ago we had a brownout where the line voltage dropped to about 85 Volts lakeside. These new voltage regulators would only increase the line voltage by 10%. I had a choice of either plugging several in series to get a reasonable line voltage, or to use one of the older, much larger, much less efficient units that would boost the voltage by a much greater % bringing it back to normal. Luckily I kept all of my older voltage regulators. Sure they ran hot, made a loud 60 cycle humming noise and were very large, but they worked.

kirkswig

Sep 16, 2004, 3:49 PM

Post #21 of 25 (4112 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Wow, turns out you were right! I was looking at the wrong light on the UPS. The wiring fault indicator has always been on! Wanna know how I found out? By buying a new UPS, plugging it in, and watching it's wiring fault indicator light up!

ARRGGHHHH!!!

I just check all of the outlets in the apartment and they're all like this. This is a brick building, so I have to believe that getting it rewired is going to be a science project, and that's if I'm even able to convince the owner to give me permission!

I'm going to have to think this one through...

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

JimOfMex

Sep 17, 2004, 1:28 PM

Post #22 of 25 (4086 views)

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Re: [kirkswig] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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I'll just add one little tid bit then ask one little question. I suspect that a UPS (battery backup) is only needed for desktop machines. When I have suffered a power loss in the past while using a laptop with a charged battery, the laptop was unaffected by the power outtage. Of course, if the battery was completely dead, it would not help much. I'm currently using a unit that provides UPS, voltage regulation and surge protection that I purchased at the pc store at Bugumbilia Plaza in Ajijic. (Note that I think an alternative spelling is used for Bugumbilia for this plaza). So far, my desktop computer has failed to take notice of any of the power outtages that have occurred. I paid about $100 USD for it. It is supposed to keep my machine running for 30 minutes.

The question I have is about voltage regulators for refrigerators. My GE refrigerator is only a couple of years old. During the night it make an amazing amount of noise. It has been suggested that it is noisier at night due to lower voltage in the area at night. I just purchased a 1000 W voltage regulator and my refrigerator consumes less than 1000 Watts. Before I opened the box, I realized that this unit is advertised for computer equipment only. Will it work with a refrigerator? Will the initial power surge that a refrigerator generates on startup cause a problem?

-Jim

johanson / Moderator

Sep 17, 2004, 1:58 PM

Post #23 of 25 (4085 views)

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Re: [JimOfMex] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Jim: I've got 6 refers/freezers, I know that's two many. I only have a few of them on. Some were installed in 1984, others during a remodel 10 years later and the last 6 months ago. None of them have voltage regulators. If your refrigerator was built in Mexico for Mexican use, it is built to work down here. Unless you have uniquely high or low voltage, don't bother.

But to be safe I would check my line voltage. And see what it is. Also check when the unit makes the most noise. My line voltage here in upper Ajijic stays between about 112 and 126 Volts, which is just fine

Papirex

Sep 17, 2004, 10:05 PM

Post #24 of 25 (4060 views)

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Re: [JimOfMex] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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The following is quoted from the troubleshooting pages of The American Power Supplies website:

“APC's Back-UPS line is designed for use with Computer-type loads only. They are not designed to be used with motor loads such as fish filters, air conditioning units, space heaters, vacuum cleaners or any other machinery.

One potential issue is the inrush current draw for a motor. It can easily overload a Back-Ups UPS model. Secondly, these models of UPSs output a Stepped-Approximated sine wave when on battery. This waveshape, while ideal for computer-type equipment, is not particularly compatible with most motor loads. The result may be that motor runs very slowly, erratically, or not at all when the UPS is on battery.

To protect this type of equipment, APC recommends first determining the appropriate size UPS for the motor load in question. Ensure that the Volt Amp rating of the UPS is sufficient to handle the start-up inrush current draw of the motor. Secondly, select a UPS which outputs a Pure Sine Wave when on battery, such as a Smart-UPS (minimum of a SU700), Matrix-UPS, or Symmetra Power Array”

This info may not apply to the unit that you bought, since you are interested in voltage regulation, not a battery backup, but it may help to clarify the requirements for a fridge. I blew a little 30-amp automotive type fuse in a spare battery backup unit I have last year. I thought it would be neat to plug a couple of lamps in to it for a few minutes of light during one of our frequent power outages here. Funny how lessons I learn the hard way seem to stick with me. It will probably take a regulator designed specifically for a power-consuming device, not one designed for a computer for your Refrigerator.

Of course it is impossible to give accurate advice by long distance, but here are a couple of things to consider: If your refrigerator is the self defrosting type, you may be hearing it reversing the compressor late at night to produce the heat to do the defrosting. It does make more noise in the heating mode. It may be normal, even if it sounds unusual. You may even hear gurgling sounds.

The timer in self defrosting refrigerators cycle through the heating cycle once every 24 hours. There is no way to manually choose when it does this. It depends on when you first plugged it in, how many times, and for how long it has been without power, a whole bunch of variables over which we have no control. It may be defrosting at 3 in the morning, or at noon.

We have an American branded refrigerator and freezer, both purchased in Mexico. They have been doing just fine for several years with no protection. The only thing I have ever done to protect them was to unplug them when we lived in another colonia that was subject to frequent brownouts, during those brownouts. Brownouts do far more damage to equipment than voltage spikes usually do.

It would be prudent to check your voltage the next time you hear your refrigerator making strange noises. If the voltage is low, unplug it immediately. If this is a frequently recurring problem, you will need to find the right regulator for a fridge.

Rex
"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

JimOfMex

Sep 18, 2004, 9:29 AM

Post #25 of 25 (4040 views)

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Re: [RexC] Voltage Regulator: Bring or buy there?

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Thanks for the info on refrigerators. I did not know that frost free models (like I have) pump backwards to melt the frost. I did not purchase the unit. I do not know if it is designed for Mexico or not. It is a GE and all of the text on it is in English. Both the compressor and the fan in the freezer are excessively loud ... like small motorcycles. My landlady says that everyone who rents this casita complains about it. I do not know how to find out what the initial surge current amounts to. I may have to just try the regulator that I have. It was only $200 pesos. If the compressor has no trouble starting and the regulator doesn't blow or overheat, it's probably ok. My landlady has her much larger (though only 686 watts) high efficiency refrigerator on a 1200 watt voltage regulator that appears to be intended for computers ... given that it has jacks for telephone line surge protection. She says it's been running that way for several years.