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zoeq

Aug 1, 2004, 8:22 PM

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We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Hello, I want to know if anyone has info on simple stomach flu. I´ve only found info on hepatitis on the forum - very scary stuff. Surely, there are those of you who have had the flu or a short term food poisoning. He has a fever off and on and severe intestinal cramping. He's taken pepto bismal and something for diahrea from the famacia. He got it just yesterday and was better this am. Now he is fluctuating. Any suggestions?

dumois

Aug 1, 2004, 8:44 PM

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Re: [zoeq] Where are you?

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To recommend you a good Doctor.

Saludos desde Guadalajara,

Dumois

Don

Aug 1, 2004, 8:44 PM

Post #3 of 26 (3365 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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My advise is to see a private doctor. It is better to be "safe" than "sorry". Not sure where you are at in Mexico, but where I live, I find the doctor's rates very reasonable.

Carol Schmidt

Aug 1, 2004, 10:55 PM

Post #4 of 26 (3344 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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People who have turista anyplace in the world who are eating differentlly than at home usually recover in a few days using Imodium D, but food poisoning can be really dangerous, so I also recommend you get to a doctor. Ask those where you are if there is a good English-speaking doctor nearby, or if someone will go with you as an interpreter to a good Spanish-only doctor. Sometimes doctors will make house calls in Mexico, for very little money, something almost unheard of in the States,or you can often get in without an appointment immediately, also almost unheard of in the States.

There was an outbreak of E.Coli in the city water where I lived back in the States once, and people can die from that, so don't mess around. Salmonella and other food-borne illnesses can be very serious, and they happen a lot in the States as well.

Hope your husband recovers quickly and it's only turista.

Carol Schmidt

Aug 1, 2004, 11:43 PM

Post #5 of 26 (3342 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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For otherwise healthy adults, the triggers for the need for immediate medical attention for diarrhea include blood and/or mucus in the stools, fever accompanied by shaking chills, and/or if dehydration is occurring (symptoms of dehydration include a dry or sticky mouth, low or no urine output (concentrated urine appears dark yellow), not producing tears, and sunken eyes; clinical signs include low blood pressure, rapid pulse rates, poor skin turgor, and delayed capillary refill). Additionally, medical attention is recommended if the diarrhea is unusually severe or does not resolve within several days.

With this in mind it should be noted that an estimated 25-50% of travelers experience diarrhea at some point in their trip, with a median duration of the condition being 3-4 days. There's a host of infectious agents associated with travelers' diarrhea including bacteria (Enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli (ETEC) as an example are the current darling of the TD crowd), viruses such as the rotoviruses and norwalk-like viruses, and parasitic enteric pathogens such as various protazoans. Medical treatment, if any is even needed, will depend on what agent is causing the problem. Probably the most important treatment in most cases of TD is to maintain hydration; oral rehydration solutions such as the "pedialyte" found in farmacias throughout Mexico may be of value here, particularly in moderate to serious cases of diarrhea as they both replenish lost salts and speed the uptake of water.

As your husband is sufficiently ill to trigger a forum posting within a day of the onset of symptoms, seeking medical attention is probably a good idea for your peace of mind, if nothing else.

(This post was edited by ET on Aug 1, 2004, 11:47 PM)

Aug 2, 2004, 12:05 AM

Post #6 of 26 (3338 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Quote

Carol Schmidt writes:
....People who have turista anyplace in the world who are eating differentlly than at home usually recover in a few days using Imodium D....

Antimotility agents such as the loperamide (sold under the trade name of Imodium A-D) are not advisable when fever is present, as is indicated by the original poster, or if bloody diarrhea is being passed. In both cases antimotility agents can increase the severity of the illness by delaying the clearance of the causative organisms from the body.

One of the theories behind diarrhea is that it's the body's defense mechanism to minimize the contact time between pathogens and the intestine (literally "flush them out"). By slowing transit time in the gut, antimotility agents would work against this action.

Quote

....There was an outbreak of E.Coli in the city water where I lived back in the States once, and people can die from that, so don't mess around.....

Only a limited subset (such as the previously mentioned ETECs like O157:H7) of the hundreds of strains of Escherichia coli (E. coli) found in the intestines of humans and other mammals are actually pathogenic. Because of their prevalence in mammalian intestines, combined with the fact that they don't survive particularly well in soil, the wholesale presence of E. coli has historically been used as a screening indicator of fecal contamination in water or foodstuffs. This does not however necessarily mean that the E. coli present pose a risk, but rather that the risk of a pathogenic organism carried/dispersed in feces is present.

(This post was edited by ET on Aug 2, 2004, 12:42 AM)

Georgia

Aug 2, 2004, 8:14 AM

Post #7 of 26 (3281 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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As many have suggersted, getting medical attention should be reassuring and helpful. Do not be surprised if, when you seek medical attention, the physician rehydrates your husband with an IV. This is customary and phenomenally restorative. As ET mentioned, pedialyte, or similar rehydration fluids that reestablish your electrolyte imbalance, help as well. They generally don't do this in the US, but it's customary everywhere else and very effective.

I know that it's intimidating to be in a foreign country with different approaches to ordinary medical techniques (just where are they going to stick that thermometer???? - why, your armpit, of course!). When I lived in Spain, for example, it was a bit of a surprise to discover that when they gave me a shot, the needle was inserted first and then they syringe was attached. I lived -- and laughed alot about the experience later!

Carron

Aug 2, 2004, 8:23 AM

Post #8 of 26 (3276 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Provide LOTS of fluids to flush the entire system. Bottled water, bottled juices, hot teas, Gatorade. Lay off the alcohol. Dehydration is a serious result of stomach disorders.

Forget the Immodium. The purpose of diarrhea is to rid the body of dangerous invaders. Let the body do its thing.

Use aspirin or ibuprofin for the fever.

When I worked at Covenant House, a nation-wide shelter for teens who had been living on the streets and often had infants with them, the intake doctor usually put the babies on what was called a BRAT diet to combat stomach upsets and loose stools. BRAT stands for Bananas, Applesauce, Rice, and Tea (also Toast). Pumped them up on Pedialyte (a liquid drink which replaces electrolytes and minerals lost from the body during vomiting and/or severe diarrhea). All of the items above are available in Mexico.

Esteban

Aug 2, 2004, 8:51 AM

Post #9 of 26 (3270 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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If you absolutely refuse to go to a doctor, take a stool sample to a lab and have it analyzed. THat's a good start. However, the best, the most logical thing to do would be give up the idea that a doctor won't help you. You won't need an appointment, the cost's will be minimal and the possible rewards could be lifesaving.

Lavanda

Aug 2, 2004, 1:23 PM

Post #10 of 26 (3216 views)

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Re:We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

Will be praying for a quick, simple recovery. Please keep us posted.

Love, Lavanda

!! Viva Mexico, warts and all !!!

zoeq

Aug 2, 2004, 2:35 PM

Post #11 of 26 (3198 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] Re:We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Wow - little did I expect this much help so fast. I really appreciate all your thoughtful replies. My husband is much better today, up and about and eating even. We are in Queretaro - forgot to mention that yesterday. Cynthia 7 referred me to 2 different clinics here so we will go just to make sure everything is OK. Again, thanks for the concern and help. It is invaluable to us.

Aug 2, 2004, 9:06 PM

Post #12 of 26 (3142 views)

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Re: [Esteban] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Esteban writes:
If you absolutely refuse to go to a doctor, take a stool sample to a lab and have it analyzed. THat's a good start.....

1. Considering that the patient has only had diarrhea for two days at the time of your posting, there's a strong possibility that pathogenic microorganisms might not be passed in sufficient quantities to detect them in a stool sample.

2. Depending on what analysis is being performed and what the laboratory's protocols are you may need to transfer the sample into a container with a preservative in it, or deliver it to the laboratory warm. Failure to do so will yield inaccurate results.

3. In order to obtain accurate laboratory results certain medications including anti-diarrheals and antibiotics need to be discontinued 7-10 days before the test specimen is collected. The bismuth subsalicylate (Pepto-Bismol) the original poster reported being used is an example of a medication that will interfer with laboratory analysis of stool samples.

Much like unrestricted access to prescription medications, access to laboratory analytical work without evaluation and setup by a qualified individual can lead to all kinds of problems.

Texwheel

Aug 3, 2004, 7:56 AM

Post #13 of 26 (3098 views)

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Re: [zoeq] Re:We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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This is so great that so many people have replied to someone in distress with such sage advice so quickly.

About 10 years ago I was on a business trip to the New Jersey shore and after a group dinner at a seafood restaurant came down with a terrible case of D and V. After a couple of hours, I was getting weak, in trouble. A friend was kind enough to go get clear soda and locate the nearest hospital emergency room. It was so bad I took my bedding into the bath room! I was really scared! Fortunately, after some Pepto and 7-up I was able to begin retaining liquids and start rehydrating. I was the only person affected, so I must have eaten the single bad shell fish we were served! 24 hours later, weak but much better. But this is nothing to treat lightly. It could have been much more serious than a minor case of food poisoning. I was this close [] to going to the hospital. And do you know what was really neat...the hotel, a Marriott, had automatically reserved another night for me in the event I had to stay over another day!
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com

Esteban

Aug 3, 2004, 8:23 AM

Post #14 of 26 (3091 views)

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Re: [ET] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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As ususal, interesting info ET. What's the purpose in taking the sample in warm? What does one use as a preservative?

Gracias

jodielyn

Aug 3, 2004, 4:19 PM

Post #15 of 26 (3033 views)

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Re: [zoeq] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Interesting discussion...
My 17 year old is staying with a family in Valle de Chalco (very near Mexico City) this summer. She has been there for a month. Has not gotten ill. I'm surprised. She said that every morning every one in the family including her drinks this white stuff from a tiny bottle, says they tell her it helps with digestion. Starts with a 'Y' was all she could tell me.

Watever it takes....

Dios te Bendiga!
Jodie

Lavanda

Aug 3, 2004, 4:29 PM

Post #16 of 26 (3030 views)

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Re: [jodielyn] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

Tex, are you sure it was nto some allergic reaction?

In the "old days" (1960's) in Guanajuato, NOBODY drank water from the tap! But i Have always LOVED water,m and would drink from the tap if no bottled watr was available. NEVER got anything bad from it.

There was this little pill called enterovioformo which you could get ithout an RX at the farmacia, and the one time (over 7 years when I DID catch a bug, that stuff worked wonders!

It wa not avalabel in the US for whatever reason, and the last time I asked it is not sold in Mexico either.

I LOVE street food! And have never been punished for it.

Zoe, have ya'll made it to the doctor?

What did they say?

!! Viva Mexico, warts and all !!!

"El Gringo Jalapeño"

Aug 3, 2004, 6:23 PM

Post #17 of 26 (3007 views)

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Re: [jodielyn] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Jodie:
What your daughter is given is "Yakult" a Japanese brand of cultured bacteria. I use it myself and it has helped my digestion a lot.
The Mexican joke for what a person should use for a bad case of the trots is a "mango". When one thinks of a mango, the fruit, which is considered "hot"(making the diahrea worse) in mexican folklore you say thats stupid. But the joke is "un mango de martillo"(a hammer's handle) stuck up just the right place to stop the problem!!!!
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com

Lavanda

Aug 3, 2004, 6:49 PM

Post #18 of 26 (2996 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

Roy, would that be a form of yogurt culture?

!! Viva Mexico, warts and all !!!

Aug 3, 2004, 6:57 PM

Post #19 of 26 (2994 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] Entero-Vioform

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Lavanda writes:
....There was this little pill called enterovioformo which you could get ithout an RX at the farmacia, and the one time (over 7 years when I DID catch a bug, that stuff worked wonders!....

Entero-Vioform (clioquinol) has disappeared from the US pharmaceutical scene, to my knowledge in the late 70's:

1. Clinical trials showed that clioquinol had no value as a diarrhea-preventative measure (a popular application).

2. To this date literature remains rife with mentions of potential adverse neurological effects from clioquinol, particularly in the context of warning travelers that it is still available in some countries but that (a) it isn't effective as a diarrhea preventative and (b) there is a risk of adverse neurological effects, particularly related to vision.

3. In the 1960's clioquinol was implicated in an epidemic of subacute myelo-optic neuropathy in Japan. Subsequently, there has been a question raised about the possiblity of viral involvement because of the identification of a previously unknown virus (the "Inouye- Melnick Agent") in the cerebrospinal fluid of a number of the victims.

(This post was edited by ET on Aug 3, 2004, 7:06 PM)

"El Gringo Jalapeño"

Aug 3, 2004, 7:02 PM

Post #20 of 26 (2991 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Lavanda;
Yakult is the commercial brand name of the light brown colored somewhat sweet milk flavored drink which comes in very small bottles and costs about US 40 cents. As I mentioned earlier, I use it myself with good results.
¡Hasta pronto, amigos!
Roy B. Dudley "El Gringo Jalapeño" See more about Xalapa at www.xalaparoy.com

Aug 3, 2004, 7:20 PM

Post #21 of 26 (2984 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Sample Handling

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Esteban writes:
....What's the purpose in taking the sample in warm? What does one use as a preservative?....

1. Unless you are limiting your analysis to antigen testing, fresh ("warm") specimens need to either examined, processed, or preserved immediately to prevent death and/or deterioration of both microorganisms and cells/cell fragments of interest.

2. There are a host of possible preservatives depending on what analysis is being performed, and what analytical methods are being employed. The most common are 10% formalin in aqueous solution and polyvinyl alcohol (PVA) with samples being split and preserved separately in the two agents. Other common agents are merthiolate-iodine-formaldehyde (MIF), sodium acetate-acetic acid-formalin (SAF), and Shaudinn's Fixative. There's also a number of general-purpose proprietary preservatives such as Ecofix, Parasafe, Unifix, and Protofix, as well as manufacturer-supplied preservatives used for kit-type immunoassays.

Texwheel

Aug 3, 2004, 9:25 PM

Post #22 of 26 (2953 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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Lavanda,

Not sure if you replied to me, but no, I never pursued an allergic reaction as a diagnosis. I used to avidly eat oysters and clams, but have not since. So I don't know.
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com

Kimpatsu Hekigan

Aug 3, 2004, 9:26 PM

Post #23 of 26 (2952 views)

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Re: ["El Gringo Jalapeño"] Yakult

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Yakult is a major Japanese company with fiscal 2003 sales of US$1.45 billion derived from dairy products, juices & soft drinks, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. The opened their Mexican subsidiary in 1980.

Their big push is "probiotics," the goal of which is "the use of beneficial bacteria that migrate to the intestine for the maintenance and promotion of good health."

They make a wide range of kefir-like fermented milk drinks in Japan and around the world. I used to enjoy their products when I lived in Japan two decades ago...

You can read more of their corporate ~~propaganda~~ information here:

http://www.yakult.co.jp/...sh/company/index.htm

HTH,

-- K.H.

Before enlightenment: Chop wood, haul water.
After enlightenment: Chop wood, haul water.

zoeq

Aug 10, 2004, 11:47 AM

Post #24 of 26 (2832 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] We are in Mexico and my husband is ill

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I haven't been on line for the last several days because I got sick just after my husband recovered. It sure seemed like the flu but the Dr. Kitty (Cathryn Delano) here in Queretaro says that it probably was a food borne illness and once he was infected, I could have gotten it from my husband. Either that or the incubation period was longer for me coming down with it. Apparently, whatever one gets into the system from eating something infected can be transmitted to another through saliva, etc. I didn't know that these things could be transmitted from one person to another and not just through food. Anyway, the symptoms were slight fever, some nausea and diahrea. It lasted two days. We are both well now but more wary. We have decided to get immunized for hepatitis. Again, thanks for all your speedy input.

Aug 10, 2004, 9:50 PM

Post #25 of 26 (2777 views)

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Re: [zoeq] It's More the ETC.....

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"zoeq" writes:
....Apparently, whatever one gets into the system from eating something infected can be transmitted to another through saliva, etc. I didn't know that these things could be transmitted from one person to another and not just through food....

As indicated in an earlier post in this message thread, traveler's diarrhea can come from a variety of infectious agents including bacteria, viruses, and parasites such as certain enteric protozoan. This broad spectrum of causal agents is repeated in the case of foodborne illnesses. One common theme is that saliva itself isn't considered to be much of a vector for transmission of either traveler's diarrhea or foodborne illnesses, particularly in the case of those caused by bacteria and protozoa. In the case of viruses some are found in saliva (the noroviruses, as an example, but noteither HIV or HBV unless there's blood present) but typically they're at concentrations several orders of magnitude lower than what's found in feces.

It's the control of fecal contamination that's a serious consideration for the control of foodborne illnesses. Contamination to foodstuffs can occur during the initial stages of bringing a foodstuff to market (slaughter, as an example, or during harvesting and packing) or during the preparation of meals. Once the ilness is introduced into a living group (family, dormitory, or military encampment) transmission can occur without the intermediary of food contamination. In the case of infants and younger children, who don't have well developed personal hygiene practices, the possibility and routes of transmission are obvious. In the case of adults, however, it's often written off because "my spouse", "my roomate", or "the other squad members" all know how to wash their hands after going to the bathroom. Unfortunately, in the case illnesses characterized by diarrhea, the sufferer may not be fully cognizant of their actions, or after the 8th run for the loo may stop being as meticulous in their handwashing as they should be (time yourself and see if you actually hit the 30 second soap+running water handwash taught to food handlers). From the hands of the sufferer contamination then can be passed directly to the hands of others, or via surfaces, food and/or utensils.

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