A Grim Reminder about safe travel

A Grim Reminder about safe travel

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It is with great sadness that I post a link that I received last week to a very tragic story. A fellow Canadian met with a violent death on one of our roadways and I am posting it as a reminder, after some thought, to ask that you please exercise caution on your journey and DO NOT drive at night if you can at all avoid it. Also be aware at all times. If the vehicle trying to get you to stop (or if someone flags you to stop) does not look official, use extreme caution. You will know an official vehicle when you see one. Thankfully this type of thing is extremely rare which is why I hesitated to post it in the first place.

http://www.outlook-rockies.ca/...1&NrArticle=2020

Uncle Jack

Jun 3, 2004, 6:16 AM

Post #2 of 22 (2329 views)

Sad, but true

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The first time I drove Mex 15 to Mazatlán was in 1958. There was no toll road then. The highway was a two-lane road all the way. I was 21 years old and full of piss and vinegar and I was driving a brand new Alfa Veloce sports car and thought I was the xxxxing king of the world.

When I told my Mexican friends that I had driven all night to get there, I was informed, in no uncertain terms, that I was the stupidest Gringo in Sinaloa. Even in those days, driving at night in Mexico was considered dangerous and foolhardy, even by the Mexicans. I have never done it since. As a matter of fact, there are many places in the U.S.A. where I choose not to drive at night. Even now, living here in Ajijic, I don't feel comfortable driving long distances after dark.

Now don't jump on my ass and start calling me insensitive or uncaring. I'm certainly not saying that this man was responsible for his own death. He was, at the very least, imprudent. That is a crime that shouldn't carry a death sentence. I only post to remind all what I learned 45 years ago....DO NOT DRIVE MEXICAN HIGHWAYS AT NIGHT!

UJ

Jun 3, 2004, 6:31 AM

Post #3 of 22 (2325 views)

Re: [Uncle Jack] Sad, but true

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The first of many times that I have driven the road from Nogales, was back in '65. You have to remember that if you want to make the whole trip in a day, your night driving time is very minimal...like three or four hours. To me, it's one of the safest roads in Mexico. It was unfortunate and disconcerting to hear about the Canadians death but bad things happen in the world and I think what happened to him is not what normally happens on this stretch of road. The trip from Maz to Nogales is too long for one day and too short for two days. I usually don't drive at night in areas where I'm not familiar with the road but sometimes I've had no choice.

Jun 3, 2004, 6:46 AM

Post #4 of 22 (2322 views)

Re: [Esteban] Sad, but true

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The section of the Nogales-Mazatlán route where Mr. Gillies Smith was killed ranks right up there among the most dangerous roads in Mexico. My personal daytime experiences on that stretch of road have convinced me that I would not take that route again. Even though my destination might be California and Nogales seems like the logical place to cross the border, you will not see me on that highway.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jun 3, 2004, 6:47 AM)

bournemouth

Jun 3, 2004, 8:14 AM

Post #5 of 22 (2310 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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Esperanza: Would you feel comfortable in sharing your personal experiences on this road with us? We've driven this road often and will be doing so again in August. We're aware that in the past it has had some problems and even been the subject of US warnings but I've always felt, naively possibly, that in daylight hours we were pretty safe. We had to change tires one morning, some way north of Mazatlan, traffic whizzed past us but nobody stopped, including the cops. We didn't need help but I had wondered if people would stop. The most notable thing was the scarcity of traffic on this toll road but the high tolls probably explain that. As we live very close to the Nogales crossing point, the coastal road is always the route we take.

ziret

Jun 4, 2004, 8:08 AM

Post #6 of 22 (2239 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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Hear hear. My hair-raising experiences on that road convinced me that I'd rather die here or leave all my belongings behind and fly back than ever drive that road again. If I do drive back it will be through Texas.

Marlene

Jun 4, 2004, 10:34 AM

Post #7 of 22 (2221 views)

Re: [ziret] Sad, but true

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I live in Mazatlàn and like many others here, have driven that road, especially the Mazatlàn/Culiacan portion many times and have never felt afraid or threatened. Maybe you could share your experiences to explain what happened to justify such strong comments. Thanks.

Jun 4, 2004, 11:15 AM

Post #8 of 22 (2211 views)

Re: [Marlene] Sad, but true

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Here's what happened to me: several years ago while driving north out of Culiacán I was motioned into a puesta de revisión where my vehicle was surrounded by six men, none of whom were wearing uniforms. They demanded that I pull my vehicle onto the pit, where they proceeded to poke around its undercarriage. All six were drunk. All six made sexual remarks, requested bribe payment saying that they refused to allow me to leave until I had paid it, etc. None wore badges or other identification. Finally after much conversation and substantial time I was allowed to leave without paying mordida. The entire confrontation took the better part of two hours.

When I returned home, I made a formal complaint to the state. I received an apology in return.

Because I speak fluent Spanish, I was able to deal with all this (at least on the level of language). How would an innocent English-speaking driver know NOT to pull over at a puesto de revisión when told to do so? How would an innocent English-speaking driver know how to cope with the demands being made by six drunks? How would an innocent English-speaking driver know how or to whom to write a letter of complaint about this sort of treatment?

And why would I choose to put myself through something similar again? I don't drive that route. Period.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

wendy devlin

Jun 4, 2004, 12:32 PM

Post #9 of 22 (2200 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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In reply to "Here's what happened to me: several years ago while driving north out of Culiacán I was motioned into a puesta de revisión where my vehicle was surrounded by six men, none of whom were wearing uniforms. They demanded that I pull my vehicle onto the pit, where they proceeded to poke around its undercarriage. All six were drunk. All six made sexual remarks, requested bribe payment saying that they refused to allow me to leave until I had paid it, etc. None wore badges or other identification. Finally after much conversation and substantial time I was allowed to leave without paying mordida. The entire confrontation took the better part of two hours."

When a situation like this happens,it is not only what can be taken from you or your car,but what can be "planted" on your car, for you to transport across the border.

Jun 4, 2004, 2:54 PM

Post #10 of 22 (2174 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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I have travelled this route several times over the past 5 or 6 years and never had a hassle at any of the check points. I'm just curious as to what year you are referring to? It could be that being a woman, you were not treated like a man in the same situation. I don't know. I've never spent more than about 5 minutes at one of those inspection points. I always feel sorry for people who don't understand the language. It's so easy to misinterpret what is going on or screw up a cultural difference with a faux pas. It appears that the authorities sometimes pick on paisanos more than foreigners. Just a non-scientific observation. You said and I quote: "I'm a smart ass" could that have been the problem? Were you pushing them?

bournemouth

Jun 4, 2004, 3:25 PM

Post #11 of 22 (2171 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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I think that most of the Federal checkpoints have now been changed to Army checkpoints. I'm not saying it's any better to have to deal with young recruits carrying rifles etc. but the days of the sleazy guys dressed in black teeshirts and sunglasses looking as if they could all do with a shower, seem, thank goodness, to have passed. They were no advertisement for Mexico and one of the things that Fox has changed. Some years back travelling with another woman friend, I was pulled over to the inspection pit at the checkpoint north of Navojoa - simply I think because we were two women - but as I had fallen over the doorstep of a colonial era hotel in Alamos the night before and had two wonderful black eyes and a broken nose to boot, sympathy was extended and we were sent on our way. I do find that in Latin countries a head of grey hair helps - there is some respect still for age and I've been milking this for years. This is in no way to negate your experience Esperanza, which would have put a lot of people off Mexico for life but I think things have changed a little. I still hear bad things about the checkpoint south of Mazatlan.

Jun 4, 2004, 3:32 PM

Post #12 of 22 (2170 views)

Re: [Esteban] Sad, but true

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Esteban, did you read my post? The men who stopped me at what was actually a puesto de revisión were not officers, they were impersonating officers, and all six of them were drunk. There was no way to know that they were not officers until the situation was already under way. They were just guys, in white T-shirts and ordinary pants. The actual officers of the puesto were gone, as is sometimes the case. Did you notice that I posted, "I asked for and received a letter of apology from the Sinaloa state government."?

The character of your post, if in fact you read my post thoroughly, is in the nature of blaming the victim. I don't appreciate it. Either you failed to read what I wrote or you decided that because I am a woman I don't know how to handle this sort of situation: dealing with puestos de revisión has to be a guy thing. Give me a break. Either way, you're dead wrong. I've driven thousands and thousands of kilometers all over this vast República and have never had another problem with any other puesto de revisión.

Pick on paisanos more than foreigners? Are you referring to me? Which are you assuming that I am, Mexican or foreign?

Please, give me a little credit. In the first place, I didn't say I was a smart ass, I said I was a wise-ass. In the second place, I'm definitely not a wise-ass in all situations--and in any situation my wise-assed-ness expresses itself in humor, not in offensiveness. And I would never, ever be any sort of wise-ass in a ticklish situation--not in Mexico or any other country. "Did you push them?" Give me a break.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Jun 4, 2004, 3:39 PM)

Jun 4, 2004, 3:43 PM

Post #13 of 22 (2165 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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Ok...You were used and abused but I don't think it's the norm. You didn't answer when?

Nowdays, they are open 24 hrs a day with uniformed soldiers crawling all around the place. I remember back in the 60's and 70's we used to get waved over all the time and WE NEVER paid any attention to the stops..we just kept on truckin. The officials didn't have cars or radios and were more than 100 meters from the highway.

Jun 4, 2004, 4:09 PM

Post #14 of 22 (2157 views)

Re: [Esteban] Sad, but true

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This happened in August 1996, at the tail end of a 13,000 kilometer driving trip all over Mexico.

You didn't answer me either. Which am I, foreign or paisana?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Jun 4, 2004, 4:21 PM

Post #15 of 22 (2153 views)

Re: [esperanza] Sad, but true

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I think things have changed considerably in the last 8 years! Boy how time flies eh?

I don't have any idea what you are. If you are fluent without an accent, it could make you seem to be a paisana. That's why I said what I did about that certain idea. No matter what your nationality or color, the language usually makes the difference as to how you are perceived.

Marlene

Jun 4, 2004, 4:54 PM

Post #16 of 22 (2145 views)

Re: [Esteban] Sad, but true

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Things have indeed changed ALOT on this route in the recent years. Most of the snowbirds in Mazatlan drive this route all the time and not one has reported an "incident". Not one.

donnieboy

Jun 7, 2004, 9:04 AM

Post #17 of 22 (2057 views)

Re: [Marlene] Sad, but true

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In January of 04, my wife and I drove from Alberta to Ajijic, using Nogales entry and highway #15. The stretch of highway from Mazatlan to Tepic is, in my opinion, a nightmare. The highway, is for the most part,two lanes and no shoulders with heavy vehicular traffic including many large trucks . The route is long and boring with very little scenery.

On our return trip, we used highway #45 (Aquascalientes, Zacatecas Gomez/Palacio Chihuahua and El Paso) This is a much better road and the scenery is outstanding. Getting through El Paso was a little frustrating because of a detour and lack of proper signing. The cuota (toll road) is mostly four lane and its is easy driving through all of the cities. We will never go the other route again.

Jun 7, 2004, 11:32 AM

Post #18 of 22 (2042 views)

Re: [donnieboy] Sad, but true

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Nogales to Mazatlan is 750 miles. Mazatlan to Tepic is about 177 miles of which about 1/3 of the road is good cuota and getting better. Unless you are driving it at night, I don't see it as any big deal. The road to Nogales is FAST. I've made it from Maz to Nogales in 12 hours.

bournemouth

Jun 7, 2004, 12:47 PM

Post #19 of 22 (2029 views)

Re: [Esteban] Sad, but true

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We certainly don't find the scenery that boring either - having driven both roads, we'd rather take the coastal one any time.

pathall

Jun 8, 2004, 8:32 AM

Post #20 of 22 (1981 views)

Re: [donnieboy] Sad, but true

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We hate going through Juárez/El Paso and so we always go through Santa Teresa now. It's just a few miles from El Paso, is small, no traffic, and no way to get lost.
Pat

gbatrucks

Jun 9, 2004, 12:25 PM

Post #21 of 22 (1926 views)

Re: [pathall] Sad, but true

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I've also had that certain thrill of being "detained" at night. About two years ago, 5 guys hopped in Dick's van for our bi-monthy trip to his beach cabin in Rocky Point. Leaving Phoenix later than usual, the last couple of hours would be in the dark. Up ahead we saw a bonfire off to the side of the road. We were pulled over by 6 guys in fatigues with M-16's. No drunks, not abusive, but they did want to take a look at our stuff & showed much "admiration" for the wine & U.S. cigarettes we had. Recalling the old song about never argue about your civil rights with a Georgia sheriff in the pale moonlight, we left shortly, also short some wine & packs of cigs. I'll go along with the "daytime-only" rule.

Trucks
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

Jun 9, 2004, 2:35 PM

Post #22 of 22 (1907 views)