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devildog

May 2, 2004, 3:06 PM

Post #1 of 24 (1858 views)

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Apostilles..

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Apostille, in plain American English means that the document is registered with the Secretary of State, ( the state where you live in the U.S. ) and is therefore a "legal document". The Secretary of State authorizes the notary on the document and that the notary is kosher. How about that?


(This post was edited by DavidMcL on May 3, 2004, 2:17 PM)



sandykayak


May 3, 2004, 10:25 AM

Post #2 of 24 (1786 views)

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Re: [devildog] Stuck between two forums...

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AT LAST someone has explained what an apostille is in plain English!!

I read and re-read the definition elsewhere but it was still vague.

thanks
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


devildog

May 3, 2004, 12:03 PM

Post #3 of 24 (1765 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Stuck between two forums...

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No Problem Sandy, I had to sit down with the Asst Secretary of State in Illinois explain it to me, so dont feel bad....


Texwheel

May 3, 2004, 12:23 PM

Post #4 of 24 (1761 views)

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Re: [devildog] Stuck between two forums...

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Sorry, I've been bouncing around a bit here...but exactly to whom do I go to get an Apostille? Does this mean I have to go the the State Capital of Texas...Austin?
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com


Uncle Jack


May 3, 2004, 12:31 PM

Post #5 of 24 (1757 views)

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Re: [Texwheel] Stuck between two forums...

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Try the Secretary of State's website:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/

There is information about apostilles under FAQs down in the lower right hand corner.

uj


Texwheel

May 3, 2004, 12:45 PM

Post #6 of 24 (1753 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Stuck between two forums...

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Thank you!!
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com


jennifer rose

May 3, 2004, 1:04 PM

Post #7 of 24 (1749 views)

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Re: [Texwheel] Stuck between two forums...

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There'some misinformation floating around. The document is not necessarily apostilled in the state in which its bearer resides. The residence of the document's bearer is immaterial.

The apostille is granted by the Secretary of State in the state in which the document was issued. A Texan who was born in Ohio would not have his or her birth certificate apostilled in Texas; it would be apostilled in Ohio.


(This post was edited by jennifer rose on May 3, 2004, 1:07 PM)


sandykayak


May 4, 2004, 10:40 AM

Post #8 of 24 (1702 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Stuck between two forums...

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Oh, no...Jennifer... I was born in England, raised in Venezuela, and have lived in Miami for 25 years.

I was told that to buy property in MX I have to take my birth certificate the one with a maiden name I have used for 38 years!

My legal name in the US is Sandra Gillespie Kramer - I kept both ex husband's last names but my British Passport is in the name of Sandra Gillespie cos of Venezuelan laws (1st divorce in US not recognized, 2nd marriage not even notified to venezuelans..)

that is why I haven't applied for US citizenship: because of the Name business. and I hate my maiden name!!

recently i've been thinking maybe I should apply for US citizenship and say I want to be known as Sandra Rowbotham (yuk!) Kramer...but all my documents and property in the US have G or Gillespie as the middle initial/name.

I'd appreciate any advice as this is really worrying me since the house in mexico should be ready in october.

I was thinking of going to the Mex consulate with all my documents as see what they say!

but I'm still confused on the apostille thing...does my birth certificate have to be apostillado? where and how do I do it?
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


Adrian

May 4, 2004, 2:11 PM

Post #9 of 24 (1668 views)

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Re: [devildog] Apostilles..

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For any Brits reading this and wondering....

An Apostille in the UK is issued by HM Foreign & Commonwealth Office in London (the FCO). One can visit in person and pay 12 pounds per apostille or have one's Notary Public take care of it. ALL documents and copies MUST be apostilled if you are dealing with the Mexican Consular Office in London.

The definition is the same - the FCO is satisfied that the document is legally acceptable to HM Government.

Adrian


Marlene


May 4, 2004, 2:15 PM

Post #10 of 24 (1668 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Stuck between two forums...

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I am chuckling because this reminds me of one of the Friends episodes where Phoebe decides to change her name to Phoebe Banana Hammock. See, it could be worse! Seriously though, two last names are an asset in Mexico. Good luck with it all.


sandykayak


May 4, 2004, 2:20 PM

Post #11 of 24 (1666 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Stuck between two forums...

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thanks, marlene...the problem is that they aren't the two apellidos that the mexicans want.

since i'm divorced i'm supposed to revert back to my maiden apellidos!!

i'm getting excellent support and advice from another english lady who has a similar tale..they lived in chile...and only got US citizenship a few years ago.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


Marlene


May 4, 2004, 2:52 PM

Post #12 of 24 (1656 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Stuck between two forums...

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Not necessarily so in reality, I have come to learn. As you know our former married names are actually our legal names until changed back, at least this is the case in Canada. In fact, it is my husband that has the concern that my other surname is that of my ex-husband's family - not the authorities. They don't fret as long as you have proper ID.

Hubby and I have discussed it to death and it has become, well, a Mexican stand-off. I don't have a life in my maiden name. My ex-married name was my legal name for so many years, drivers license, credit bureau, Social Insurance number (you know the drill), until I married husband number 2 here in Mexico. Whenever someone wants to pop in another surname besides his (which happens all the time on documents here), he quickly steps in and reminds me to show them my FM3 which (proudly) notes only his surname, along with my given first and middle names. They then fidget around trying to decide what to do with the extra space for the 2nd surname. It seems things are changing though because in several cases recently, such as with my new Mexican Drivers license they have used my given middle name and husbands surname instead of asking for 2 surnames. Whew!

So don't worry too much, sounds like you would have lots of identification for your current legal name.


sandykayak


May 4, 2004, 3:00 PM

Post #13 of 24 (1653 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Stuck between two forums...

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I just realized that I must have hijacked this thread when I zeroed in with the apostille...the subject does not jive with the current topic.

should we start a new one or reply privately?
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


Marlene


May 4, 2004, 3:05 PM

Post #14 of 24 (1649 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Stuck between two forums...

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Sandy,
If you still have questions, please start a new thread. These forums are for answering questions on all subjects related to Mexico. The multiple name saga is something that is encountered in day to day life on a regular basis and women moving here need to be prepared to deal with it.
That was thoughtful of you to take notice.


mariemcc

May 5, 2004, 3:15 PM

Post #15 of 24 (1552 views)

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Re: [devildog] Apostilles..

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Apostille, in plain American English means that the document is registered with the Secretary of State, ( the state where you live in the U.S. ) and is therefore a "legal document". The Secretary of State authorizes the notary on the document and that the notary is kosher.
___________________________________________________

That's not quite right. An apostille, in the case of the United States, is a document generated by the secretary of state of any of the U.S. 50 states or Washington DC Notary Section and is attached to an original notarized document.

You are correct that it authenticates the signature of a notary. However, a secretary of state can only authenticate the signature of a notary in its own state. Thus, the California Secretary of State cannot apostille a document which was notarized in Texas. Only the Texas Secretary of State can do that.

Where you live is not relevant. Where the document was notarized is what counts.

An apostille does not mean the document is registered anywhere.

A foreign document must be apostilled to be acceptable for legal use in Mexico. In this sense, "a foreign document" means any document that was not created in Mexico.

Marie


(This post was edited by mariemcc on May 5, 2004, 6:19 PM)


sandykayak


May 5, 2004, 3:38 PM

Post #16 of 24 (1546 views)

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Re: [mariemcc] Apostilles..

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okay, let's see how it would work in any US state. I've done something similar for Venezuela.

I have a British birth certificate - in English, of course.

Now what? Do I take it to the Mexican Consulate in Miami (I'm in Florida) and get from them a list of "approved" translators?

Have it translated. Take it to ???? in some Miami-Dade County government office. They notarize it.

Take the document with the apostille (the sealed paper that the County govt. agency staples to the birth certificate) to the Mexican Consulate.

Does the Mexican consulate need to see it and do something to it before taking it to Mexico?
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


esperanza

May 5, 2004, 3:53 PM

Post #17 of 24 (1542 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Apostilles..

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Seems to me, based on the last post, that your British birth certificate would have to be apostilled in its place of origin--i.e., England, if that's where you were born.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









sandykayak


May 5, 2004, 3:55 PM

Post #18 of 24 (1541 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Apostilles..

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eeek!! well, that ain't gonna happen.

Time to get friendly with the Mexican consulate in Miami staff and see what they say.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


mariemcc

May 5, 2004, 5:49 PM

Post #19 of 24 (1533 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Apostilles..

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Seems to me, based on the last post, that your British birth certificate would have to be apostilled in its place of origin--i.e., England, if that's where you were born.
___________________________________


Yes, if it is the birth certificate itself that is being apostilled. However, Sandy's post indicates she is getting the translation of the birth certificate notarized and apostilled, which translation would be taking place in Miami.

Where Sandy was born is irrelevant, and where the birth certificate was issued is irrelevant if the birth certificate itself is not notarized. As I stated, it is only where a document is notarized that counts as far as the issuance of an apostille is concerned in the United States.

If the birth certificate translation is notarized in Miami, then the Florida secretary of state is the only one who can properly apostille the Miami notary's signature.

Please note the distinction that it is not the birth certificate itself that is being certified or notarized, according to Sandy's scenario. The notarization in Sandy's situation pertains only to the translation.

Example: I, Marie McC, have done a translation of Sandy's birth certificate from English into Spanish at Marie's Translation Shop in downtown Miami. I make out a certificate saying that it is a true and accurate translation, and I put that certificate at the end of the translation. Sandy has told me that she needs the translation notarized, so I staple the copy of her birth certificate which she has given me, the original translation, and my original Certificate of Translation Accuracy together and take it to a notary public in downtown Miami that I found in the phone book. I then sign the Certificate of Accurate Translation in front of the notary who notarizes my signature. This document (the translation with the attached photocopy of the birth certificate and the notarized Certificate of Translation Accuracy) can now be presented to the Florida Secretary of State for issuance of an apostille.

The notarization only means "I, the notary who signs below, have seen a photo I.D. of this person, or I know this person personally, and she is in fact Marie McC, the person who signed the Certificate of Accurate Translation." The notarization verifies a signature, not a document. I'm a notary myself in the District of Columbia, so I'm very familiar with these issues.

Be aware that a document which is to be notarized, such as the certificate of accurate translation in this example, must be signed in the presence of the notary. That is critical, so Sandy should tell the translating service at the time she makes her request for a translation that she needs the translation notarized. As a Washington DC notary, if someone came to my office and asked me to notarize a signature on a document that had already been signed before he brought it to me, I would never do it. Why? Because I did not see the person sign it and therefore was not able to verify the signer's identity.

It is a separate question whether the Mexican Consulate requires the birth certificate to be certified or apostilled, which could only be done where it was issued, in this instance, in the U.K. This question is best discussed with your nearest Mexican Consulate.

Summary:

Certification is a guarantee of the authenticity of a document.

Notarization is a guarantee of the authenticity of a signature of someone who signed a document.

Apostille is a guarantee of the authenticity of the signature of the notary who notarized a document.


Marie


(This post was edited by mariemcc on May 5, 2004, 8:13 PM)


esperanza

May 5, 2004, 6:36 PM

Post #20 of 24 (1519 views)

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Re: [mariemcc] Apostilles..

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Great explanation, Marie...thanks. No darn wonder there has been so much confusion about apostilles. Sandy, sorry to mislead you, but hey, a trip to London would have been fun.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









mariemcc

May 5, 2004, 6:46 PM

Post #21 of 24 (1515 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Apostilles..

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Sandy,

I can't speak to the step-by-step how-do-I-do-this part of your question, having never had any dealings with the requirements of the Mexican Consulate near you (or any Mexican Consulate, for that matter). I can only respond to how you would get your translation properly apostilled.

If the Mexican Consulate wants your birth certificate itself to be apostilled, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Depending on their rules, they may require a certified copy of your birth certificate, which would have to be obtained in the UK where it was issued.

A certified document may or may not need to be notarized in order to be apostilled. That depends on the rules of the jurisdiction where the document was certified.

Example: There are certain federal agencies in Washington DC which certify their own documents. The DC Notary section quite happily slaps an apostille on these documents without the need for notarization. What they do in the UK, I have no idea.

However, the document would almost certainly have to be apostilled in the jurisdiction where it was certified. (Are you getting a headache yet???) No U.S. government agency and no U.S. notary is going to vouch for the authenticity of signature(s) on a document created by unknown persons from another country. Therefore, a UK certified document would have to be apostilled in the UK.

There are legal service companies all over the world who perform those kinds of services locally for clients who are geographically distant. I've done many similar legal services in Washington DC for a client in Bermuda.

If a noncertified photocopy of your birth certificate is acceptable to the Consulate and their requirement is only to have the translation apostilled, then your task is much easier. You would engage a translation service to give you a notarized translation of your birth certificate, then you would send the notarized translation to the Florida Secretary of State's office to be apostilled. This could be done by you in person if the Florida Secretary of State's office is close to where you live, by a courier service or by Federal Express. Call the Secretary of State's office first to find out how much they charge for an apostille.

You definitely should talk to your local Mexican Consulate to find out what they require.

Yeah, sorry to be such a wet blanket on your trip back to the UK. ;)

Marie


(This post was edited by mariemcc on May 5, 2004, 7:47 PM)


devildog

May 5, 2004, 7:33 PM

Post #22 of 24 (1499 views)

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Re: [mariemcc] Apostilles..

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Dear Mariemcc, I can only tell you what the Cousal General of Mexico in Chicago told me and the Asst Secretary of State of Illinois...Which is what I orignally stated....not being a lawyer let alone an internationa lawyer I have to take the counsel of these too Gentleman, A Diplomat and a State Executive.....Regards


Georgia


May 6, 2004, 1:47 PM

Post #23 of 24 (1421 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Apostilles..

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If it is the translation you are having notarized, then that notary signature is what is verified by the apostille of the Secretary of State of the state in which the notary verified the translation.


sandykayak


May 6, 2004, 1:58 PM

Post #24 of 24 (1417 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Apostilles..

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Yes, Georgia, that's the way I read it as well. Thanks to all for the input.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque
 
 
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