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tankahIII

Mar 26, 2004, 10:52 AM

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Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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We just bought property on the beach near Tulum and it's taking a long time to get Semernat(Federal environmental group) clearance so we can request local permits. What do you know from down there re what's going on - we hear new building has basically stopped. Help!

Jim in Cancun / Moderator

Mar 26, 2004, 2:01 PM

Post #2 of 42 (4833 views)

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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There is a new "Delegado" for the Semarnat. He is a lawyer by training and everyone is complaining that he is not prepared for the job. During the last several years lots of the officials have been fired and even blacklisted from holding public office again because they did what many officials in Mexico do--take money to give permits and/or look the other way. Expect things to be very strict for a while. There has been a lot of publicity lately--mostly negative about how foreigners are ruining the environment--with the collusion of government officials. And one you get a permit from them based on the Environmental Impact Study, you will still have to get the "County" permit. As an example....Xcaret and Carnival are partners and want to build a home port outside of Playa....they have gone through Semarnat and have all Federal approvals but the one who has the last say as far as building permits is the local government and they have steadfastly refused to give them permits--and this has been going on for years. There are many similar cases where the Federal government agency approves but the local refuses. You are probably in for the long haul. Just my guess.

tankahIII

Mar 26, 2004, 2:37 PM

Post #3 of 42 (4827 views)

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Re: [Jim in Cancun] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Thanks for the quick input. Actually, we have good relationship with local authorities in Playa, plus our property and casa is following all of the recommendations regarding size, density, septic, setbacks, etc. We were most interested if anyone else was running into this Semernat problem and how they were working through it.

sfmacaws

Mar 26, 2004, 6:55 PM

Post #4 of 42 (4816 views)

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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We were also told that after Feb there would be a slow down in permits issued because "they" feel this area has been built up too quickly and they want the new master plan to be put in before more permits are issued. This is perhaps just an official front, and the reality is something again. Many people here think they will be able to get permits again when it gets down to the last 3 months before the elections. There are of course some people who are still getting permits but it is more difficult, or more expensive which is really just the same thing.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

tankahIII

Mar 26, 2004, 7:23 PM

Post #5 of 42 (4812 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Wow - we're learning more and more. I guess that means we can't get a permit until 3 mos before 2006 elections? Do you know when the "general plan" might be due? It seems there will be a lot of construction workers in Q. Roo and elsewhere in Mexico out of work for a long time. Any info on what other homebuilding hopefuls are doing?

sfmacaws

Mar 26, 2004, 7:35 PM

Post #6 of 42 (4810 views)

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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It's not that you can't get a permit, it's that it is slower and perhaps more expensive. Construction has definitely slowed down here although there are at least two places being built along the road here in Half Moon Bay. I think that because there is an election for not only the mayor of Playa and Solidaridad but also for governor of QR, many people think that everything will change with the new administrations. There is the idea that the outgoing admins will try to get their 'retirement funds' in the last 3 months and that there will be deals. With a little grease, it would be a good time to get your local permits.

The Master Plan for this area has been completed, I don't know where it is in the approval stages but I would assume that it too is subject to change under a new governor.

I've heard that there are ejido title problems in Tulum along the Boca Paila road. I hope you don't encounter those.

You can't hurry these things in Mexico, it's a little like shoveling sand. What was that old I-Ching fortune, Perseverence Furthers.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

tankahIII

Mar 27, 2004, 11:21 AM

Post #7 of 42 (4790 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Fortunately, we're not in that area-we heard about that. We're in Tankah Tres and got our Fideicomiso last December. Sorry for being so dumb, but when are the elections for governor and mayor? Your information is very helpful. We are slowly working through the process with a Mexican attorney, architect, biologist and our trusty contractor - all great folks.

sfmacaws

Mar 27, 2004, 1:00 PM

Post #8 of 42 (4783 views)

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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I know where Tankah is, near Casa Cenote no? I'm not sure when the elections are but I believe the regimes change in March so I'd guess in the fall. We are both (Akumal & Tankah) in Solidaridad and the election for Presidente Municipal is going to be important. There are rumors that an ex-governor and an ex-presidente of Benito Juarez (Cancun) want the job. It says something that men who have held this high an office want to be mayor of Playa. There is a lot of change happening and more to come. I love this area and think that it can remain a haven and still entertain tourists from around the world.

You are lucky to own land in Tankah, the beach there is very beautiful. We are leaving Akumal tomorrow or I would say we should meet for lunch. We are returning to the US for the summer and will be back in Sept or Oct. Perhaps by then you will be in full construction. Buena suerte,

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

tankah

Apr 2, 2004, 9:23 PM

Post #9 of 42 (4738 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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You are certainly not alone! I know of a number of people who are in the same boat as you in Tankah. My good friend whose lot is near ours has had her papers sent to Mexico and is awaiting their answer. As with you, so far the people she's worked with in Playa have been very nice, just not able to issue permits. We feel very fortunate that we built when we did. In 2002, I was warned by a couple of Architects to get our plans in for our permits by April, prior to a change in administration. We got ours in shortly after that and we were OK. However, when our other friends tried for theirs they were told their casitas could no longer be separate from the main house. We were one of the last ones to get approved for a separate casita. At least for that time period. Where in T-III are you? Are you in the Pariaso part or the original Tankah? It sounds like you are being patient, what else can you do? I too, wonder about the construction crews and the Architects and their livelihoods. This situation is not good for them either.

Ann

tankahIII

Apr 3, 2004, 5:54 PM

Post #10 of 42 (4721 views)

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Re: [tankah] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Good to know we're not alone. Please keep us (the forum) updated on your friend's progress. we heard you have to get approved by the Semarnat in Mexico city before locals can even look at your plans. I'd love to know what they sent and how long it takes. We're in old Tankah next to Casa Caribena. Where are you? loco gringo http://www.locogringo.com has aerial photographs of the entire corridor from Playa to Tulum so we can spot places easily.

smokesilver

Apr 5, 2004, 6:10 PM

Post #11 of 42 (4699 views)

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Re: [Jim in Cancun] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Jim; What happened to your dancing gator? My grandson lived him.

Jim in Cancun / Moderator

Apr 5, 2004, 6:26 PM

Post #12 of 42 (4695 views)

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Re: [smokesilver] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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He was lost--along with a lot of pictures and other important information in a hard disk crash about a month ago. It is currently in California being "operated" on to see if some info can be recovered. I miss him too!

tankah

Apr 11, 2004, 9:07 PM

Post #13 of 42 (4660 views)

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Hi, we're down the beach from you,inTankah III on the curve of the bay, I drive by your lot all the time. Gary hasn't photographed the point yet so you cant see us on their website. I spoke with my friends whose paperwork is in Mexico City - no word yet, they are bracing themselves for the worst however.

El Gringo

Apr 12, 2004, 8:17 AM

Post #14 of 42 (4646 views)

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Re: [tankah] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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It is my understanding that based on the Mexican Constitution they have to let people build on residentially zoned lots. That does not mean it will take some time and a lot of patience. I applied for my permit in December ( I own beachfront property in Paraiso Tankah) and have gotten nowhere so far. I am trying to stay positive however, because in the long run we are all better of without renegade development. As far as us Gringos is concerned if we would have wanted it to turn out like Destin, Florida or Miami Beach in the long run we could have gone there to begin with, but who really wants that?

I am just curious on the constitutional aspect. Any thoughts? Any news?

Jim in Cancun / Moderator

Apr 12, 2004, 10:13 AM

Post #15 of 42 (4634 views)

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Re: [El Gringo] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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What part of the Mexican Constitution are you basing your understanding on? I have never seen anything in the Constitution that speaks to specifics zoning--especially since that is left up to local governments. Even though you have to get federal permits and do environmental impact studies, the final final permits come from the local government--that can overrule anything approved by the Federal government--although I don't think they can approve something NOT approved by the federal government.

Mexican Constitution in English http://www.ilstu.edu/.../docs/1917const.html

Mexican Constitution in Spanish http://www.yucatan.com.mx/...ion/presentacion.asp

tankahIII

Apr 12, 2004, 12:50 PM

Post #16 of 42 (4622 views)

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Re: [El Gringo] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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I also heard that it is a "right" for residential owners, but those owners are the banks (Fideicomiso) for most of us gringos, and it still takes a lot of paperwork to pursue. we are trying to be patient to get federal OK to go. the local office then evaluates and approves (or not), but won't approve anything without federal OK.

I also was told that worker casitas can't be detached and that your square footage cant exceed 15% of your lot. I think this is not good for workers, because people will do contracts with property management companies instead of providing nice housing for caretakers.

I think with all these rules, and our willingness to follow them, it is impossible to build something that is bad for the environment, so I'm still not sure of the logic of why they stop building, but since when is government logical?

El Gringo

Apr 12, 2004, 1:24 PM

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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I have not heard that the size of the house can't exceed 15%. It may be true, but that would mean that the house on a 1000 square meter lot could be no larger than 150 square meters, which is roughly 1500 square feet. Taking into account that this is also supposed to include the casita means there is not much of living space left. I couldn't imagine. There are a lot of rumors going around right now, one is (was) that the set back of the Federal Zone is not anymore 20 meters, but now 50 meters (based on the Poet), which that would render most beach lots pretty much useless.

I don't really now, but I think until the new people in charge get a handle of the situation nobody really knows. It is my understanding that a lot of permits were just approved based on the size of the mordita.

Jim, you seem to be somewhat in tune of what is happening down there, any input?

(This post was edited by El Gringo on Apr 12, 2004, 1:26 PM)

Jim in Cancun / Moderator

Apr 13, 2004, 5:20 AM

Post #18 of 42 (4596 views)

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Re: [El Gringo] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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About the only thing I know is what I hear in the paper and some rumours. I do know that if Solidaridad has refused to approve a huge Xcaret/Carnival Cruise project (people who have political and economic clout) then individuals are pretty much at their mercy also.

Most of the local Solidaridad people will be leaving within a year and will be trying to "feather their nest" but the Federal agencies are a bit more permanent--they have 6 years instead of 3.

I am not sure at exactly what stage each of you is at but have patience and polite tenacity with the appropriate agencies and individuals and keep on them--"Él que no chilla, no mama" is the saying in Spanish which translates (but not quite so colourfully) to "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."

Esteban

May 22, 2004, 3:51 PM

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Re: [El Gringo] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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I think you may be dealing with setback requirements when you build on beachfront property. The federal laws have been on the books for years but I've heard, recently, they will be enforcing the rules. They don't want the beach to be inaccessible to the public which is what is happening. The hotels have overstepped the rules also and there are disputes, at least there are disputes on the west coast. This may be something you want to look into. You need someone who KNOWS the laws about setbacks from whatever the law requires...like from mean low tide or whatever.

tankahIII

May 25, 2004, 10:57 AM

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Re: [Esteban] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Yes, we retained an attorney and biologist, plus we paced out the setbacks before we bought the lot. It is 150ft deep, so we have some wiggle room. I'm fine with everyone having access to the beach - that's the law. Our neighbor next door says she thinks it's all about the permit people trying to raise the cost of permits. That's OK by me since they are amazingly low compared to the US. We don't want to short-change anyone, we just want to get on with building our dream! (see picture)

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dreambeach.jpg (66.8 KB)

Esteban

May 25, 2004, 1:31 PM

Post #21 of 42 (4498 views)

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Have you talked with a notario and not just an attorney? I'd actually get two opinions on the federal rules concerning setbacks. Your property looks sensational!

sfmacaws

May 25, 2004, 2:57 PM

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Re: [Esteban] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Another new fee to look into, we are in the process of negotiating the "new, one time only" beach concession fee. My understanding is that this fee is for the right to use the beach commercially. Problem is, if you don't buy the concession for the beach in front of your lot, someone else can buy it. You could then have vendors of whatever kind (kayak rental, beach chair rental, souvenirs) with the legal right to do business in front of your house. Whether or not it really is "one time only" remains to be seen.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

tankahIII

May 25, 2004, 3:49 PM

Post #23 of 42 (4490 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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The notario our attorney uses is also in the loop, but I don't think it has anything to do with our lot or our specific case. Except for one remodel, no one has been given a permit in this area in almost 6 months.

We plan to buy our own concession if it becomes necessary, we were told that they are about $10K. However, we are in such a remote place, there is no commercial viability for businesses on the beach right now, so nobody wants one.

Glad you like the lot!

Esteban

May 25, 2004, 4:25 PM

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Re: [tankahIII] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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Personally, I would go about it the other way around, the lawyer would be used by the notario, the notario being the "first" in charge. They are, by law, the only ones who can do the real estate stuff. They are trained and licensed to do so. If someone disagrees with me, please speak up. There seems to be a sort of gold rush for beach front in your part of Mexico. I can see how it could become very very easy to lose money if the wrong people are involved and laws are not clearly interpreted according to written law and not necessarily to existing policy. The new policies appear to be heading towards a stricter application to written law.

Jim in Cancun / Moderator

May 26, 2004, 1:46 AM

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Re: [Esteban] Getting Building Permits on the Coast

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I agree 100% with Esteban. And as for a one-time fee for the commercial use of the beach that may be true but there is an annual fee charged by Zofemat...it is a federal tax like property tax but is collected by the local government.

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