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Miguelito

Feb 13, 2004, 6:53 AM

Post #1 of 21 (2334 views)

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Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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On my first trip the pensione lady said no, put it in the receptacle. In my new apt. there's no receptacle, ergo flush or no? Gracias

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

jennifer rose

Feb 13, 2004, 7:09 AM

Post #2 of 21 (2330 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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It depends upon the plumbing. Poor plumbing can't handle paper. Never mind that paper dissolves.

Personally, I'm insulted and angry when visitors use the trash receptacle instead of the loo in my house, because it's usually on a weekend, which means I have to dump the wastebasket, and moreover, their "politeness" makes me wonder if they think my bathroom plumbing isn't up to par.

Carol Schmidt

Feb 13, 2004, 9:54 AM

Post #3 of 21 (2315 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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No, we don't flush toilet paper in San Miguel, unless you're in a private home where they do not have a trash receptacle in the bathroom, which is giving you a message.

In general the rule is, this is a very old town with very old infrastructure and it is better to not take any chances with giving someone a plumbing bill. Buy a small wastebasket, line it with a plastic grocery sack, and put the sack in your garbage receptacle every so often.

Maybe the wealthier, newer homes in outlying neighborhoods have better plumbing and it's not an issue for them. In Centro, it sure is.

Carol Schmiddt

Miguelito

Feb 13, 2004, 2:58 PM

Post #4 of 21 (2298 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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Umm, I thought as much. I'd been doing just that plus adding a spray or two of clorox water too, no odor with a tight lid. Thanks, I'll continue to do so.

P.S. My rental agreement says I must pay the plumber so I wanted to be extra sure of what to do.

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

raferguson

Feb 13, 2004, 3:37 PM

Post #5 of 21 (2293 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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I always flush the paper unless there is a sign to the contrary. I look at this as another Mexican myth.

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

gpk

Feb 13, 2004, 4:08 PM

Post #6 of 21 (2287 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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I agree that this is mostly a myth that dates back to when many homes/businesses used less-than-high-quality toilet paper, i.e.newsprint. Of course, there are some old pipes that don't meet current standards.

tfyoung

Feb 13, 2004, 4:39 PM

Post #7 of 21 (2286 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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My wife and I lived for a year on Terraplen back in the late 80s. We always flushed the paper. Before that, we rented an apartment across from the Monjas for about 6 months. We always flushed the paper there, too. In a year and a half of regular paper-flushing, we never had to call a plumber.

Don

Feb 13, 2004, 7:08 PM

Post #8 of 21 (2269 views)

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Re: [tfyoung] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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I have lived here in Mexico for 5 years. I have been visiting here for about 18 years. I have always flushed the toilet tissues, except for a visit to a persons home in a very, very old house, with plumbing problems. They asked that the tissue not be flushed. Just because there is a waste receptacle in the bathroom doesn't mean it is for toilet tissue. We have receptacles in all bathrooms and also had them in bathrooms when we lived in the U.S. I have stayed in homes in Mexico City, Guadalajara, plus many other cities in Jalisco, and Colima state and never worried about flushing.

Carol Schmidt

Feb 13, 2004, 11:18 PM

Post #9 of 21 (2251 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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Interesting to hear so many people flush TP. Everyone I know doesn't. I'm asking around here to get more people's answers on whether to flush.

My first landlord in SMA was very detailed on what a small underwater cement box all the waste from six apartments went into on its way to the sewer, and how easy it was to clog up that box, and how I'd be the one to pay the plumber if I clogged up the line. That box was only one foot by two feet by one foot cubic measure, I still recall. Sure made an impression on me.

And so many restaurants have signs in the bathroom stalls saying to please not flush TP, I can only recall one that didn't have a receptacle for TP in my two years here.

And when I was a fulltime RVer all the bathrooms in restaurants and gas stations anywhere near the border back in the US always, always had TP wastebaskets because Mexicans would put the used TP somewhere other than the toilet, so I thought this was universal in Mexico.

I'm still not going to flush TP here, better safe than sorry. But I'll ask around to see what others do. What a conversation starter!

Carol Schmidt

D.G.

Feb 14, 2004, 4:36 AM

Post #10 of 21 (2247 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Do we flush the paper in SMA?

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We have a home in San Miguel and have never had to call the plumber for paper problems, and I can assure you we flush it. I don't see how a bio-degradable paper would clog the system, since the human waste is bulkier and more likely a source of clogging.

Of course there are exceptions. For example, paper could clog if there were lots and lots of it used at one time as in long, continuous sheets. Or you could get a clog if water pressure was so low that it doesn't clean the trap adequately. Or it could if the water volume was not sufficient to again clean the trap. Or if the plumbing has really narrow diameter discharge pipes.

So, bottom line is: Ask before you flush, as there are exceptions to every rule. It's pretty obvious that there are different users and different plumbing situations to be encountered in SMA.

Miguelito

Feb 14, 2004, 5:52 AM

Post #11 of 21 (2242 views)

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One really good indicator

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might be the sanitarios publico near La Parroquia which I use as needed. There are no receptacles there and everyone flushes. I hadn't thought of that until now.

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

Carol Schmidt

Feb 14, 2004, 1:30 PM

Post #12 of 21 (2208 views)

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Responses to a survey on flushing TP

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But there are waste receptacles in the public bathrooms on the women's side! Guess they're for tampons and such. I put TP in them. And I'm still not going to flush TP in my casa which is prone to plumbing problems anyway. I've already paid for a plumber to redo some pipes, put in a new hot water heater, and repair some very slow drains. We redid the inside of the toilet mechanisms ourselves. (Well, Norma did it, her ex-husband wasn't handy so she learned to do everything herself.)

I asked an SMA e-mail list I belong to whether they flush TP or not, and below are excerpts from some of the wide-ranging responses. The most recent are first, and my original is at the end, in case the responses are confusing.

Carol Schmidt
> I went to the opening of a restaurant on the jardin and in the Tocadera was a large sign that said"DO NOT THROW THE TOILET PAPER ON THE FLOOR."
> Conversely I've seen small signs that say"do NOT throw the toilet paper in the toilet" I think not throwing paper in the toilet makes the toilet owner modest and inclined to be ashamed, hence the more discreet sign.
>
>

>Part of this plan [a proposed city plan to improve water treatment and sewer lines] relies on the residents
> paying to connect their waste lines to the new ones. In my neighborhood those notices were sent out last year. The drains are still going into either the ground or mid air. And on Calzada de la Luz there is still nothing to connect to. There are people here who can't afford to feed their goats, let alone call a plumber.
> Meanwhile, back on calle Hidalgo there are beautiful old houses whose black water and sludge drains into the back yards of the houses on Hernandez Macías. I personally know of notices taked to doors that were ceremoniously
> (figuratively) shredded and used for toilet paper.
> There is an awful lot of poopoo under this town.
> I appreciate what the town is trying to do, and it will certainly be an improvement, but the press releases are a little glossy.
>
>
> According to presentations at Audubon's Water Awareness week, all SMA sewage will be carried in closed pipes this year. The last collector, from Atascadero, is being completed, and by the beginning of 2005, the new sewage
> treatment plant will be in full operation.
>

> This goes back to the old days when restaurants and cheap hotels had baskets full of used toilet paper and a sign on the door that said don't put paper in the toilet.
> Some places still use the sign for so called sanitary napkins (what an oxymoron!) But even though San Miguel still has an antiquated sewage system (take a stroll along Calzada de la Luz to enjoy the perfumed air and see
> where all the TP goes), flushing is the norm. The only problem is certain people who like to use half the roll with every visit to the tocador. They have higher plumbing bills.
>
>
> I really don't like the flushing toilet for environmental reasons. But regarding TP I am pretty sure 99% of Mexicans do flush it and there is no problem whatsoever. When there is a problem in the flushing -it sometimes happens- it is usually not because of the TP, and most toilets have the device
> to fix that. It is very disgusting, for Mexican taste, to throw the paper into the trash can. If you are visiting Mexicans, please flush the TP, don't throw it into the trash can!!!
>
> However, some restaurants and hotels ask you not to do so, but most mexicans don't pay attention to that.
>
>
>
>I didn't flush when I first arrived in SMA because I wasn't >sure if the pipes could handle it. I spoke to my old landlord >and he said it was fine, and should be fine in most places in >a city. He said the issue is when you are out in the country >or in a very small community - and in many cases there will >be a sign asking you to deposit the TP in the wastebasket.>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carol Schmidt
> Subject: Don't hit me, I need to ask about flushing toilet paper
>
>
>
> I've never flushed toilet paper in San Miguel, especially since I've always lived in Centro where the infrastructure is especially old. On another
forum I advised a newcomer to Centro to not flush, and I've gotten respnses from longtime residents of many areas of Mexico, including SMA, who say they always flush TP and have never had any plumbing problems. One woman said she
is insulted when someone puts TP in her wastebasket in the
bathroom, it implies the visitor thinks she has inadequate plumbing. Others said not flushing TP is just a myth, not true.

> Any comments?
> Carol Schmidt

Miguelito

Feb 14, 2004, 5:04 PM

Post #13 of 21 (2193 views)

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Sorry, I was dead wrong....

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in returning from the plaza del toros I stopped in there and noticed there WERE receptacles in each stall. I just didn't see them the last time I used the facilities.

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

jeffsitka

Feb 27, 2004, 1:12 PM

Post #14 of 21 (2113 views)

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Re: [raferguson] A myth that Mexican's Believe?

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A few years back we had a large number of recent immigrants from southern Mexico come to work for my employer. We had to put up signs in the restrooms (in Spanish) indicating that one should flush the toilet paper. Otherwise it piled up on the floor next to the toilet.

Carol Schmidt

Feb 28, 2004, 10:18 AM

Post #15 of 21 (2087 views)

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Re: RVers don't flush toilet paper either

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This thread popping up again reminded me--for 3 1/2 years I was a full-time RVer and we never flushed TP in self-contained RVs either. RVs had black water waste tanks for toilet output and gray water waste tanks for water from showers and sinks, and you had to empty both into dumping stations at RV parks every week or so. Not a pleasant job, and you didn't want to have to pay for an expensive repair job if the black water tank got clogged.

If you didn't keep it well-flushed with water and empty it frequently, the black water tank could dry up and then you really had a mess and an expensive repair job. And if you didn't empty it soon enough it could overflow into your RV! Your home! You also had to remember to empty the black water tank and flush it out thoroughly before putting your RV in storage for any period of time.

Though some brands of (more expensive) TP made especially for RVers claimed they dissolved completely in flushing, most of us never took the chance of clogging up our black water tanks and simply put TP in a plastic bag-lined waste basket we emptied every day. So the concept was not so disgusting to me when I arrived in Mexico. No big deal.

Carol Schmidt

Miguelito

Feb 28, 2004, 7:37 PM

Post #16 of 21 (2067 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] RVers don't flush toilet paper either

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That's very interesting. In my 2+ years of full-time rv-ing prior to moving to San Miguel, I never heard anyone mention, never read in any rv magazine or book, and never saw reference to NOT flushing paper in the black tank. On the contrary I believe, it's usually not the paper that creates a problem in rv's but some practice on the part of the owner(s) such as leaving the black dump valve open all the time while connected to a park's sewer system via the drain hose which potentially can, and usually does, create a mound of solid material directly beneath the toilet because the liquids drain away immediately while the solids remain. I've also seen plenty of sewer hoses running uphill which makes me wonder what happens when the owner(s) decide(s) to move the rig, what a surprise that must be. The usual advice is to use single ply tp but really there's the simple test of dropping a square in a glass of water and noting the time it takes to dissolve which will tell you if the brand you're currently using is not dissolving rapidly enough and may potentially cause problems. I do know from experience, however, that tp in some black tanks can clog the gauge sensors and cause an erroneous reading of the tank's liquid level, necessitating the rather unpleasant task of shining a flashlight down the toilet drain to check it visually. Ugh.... It's kind of like using a pit toilet, everything's usually fine until you look down LOL. A lot of people I know and have talked with do as I do and when they change campgrounds will dump their tanks and then put a bag of crushed ice in the black tank with a few gallons of water. The scouring action of that in motion takes good care of any scaling or buildups. Then, of course, there's the matter of rinsing the tank after dumping. Many rigs have a gizmo installed in the black tank called the "no fuss flush", or similar, to which one attaches a garden hose (not the drinking water hose, thank you) and which causes a spray nozzle inside the tank to rinse it out. I always used the old faithful cleaning "wand" to which is attached the hose and which is inserted down the old toilet hole and moved all around. In my experience this takes care of all potential problems if done on a regular basis, at least every other dump.

Then there's the greatly explored topic of tank additives which, in my opinion and experience, are generally not needed at all with the possible exception of during the hot weather months when an extra deodorant might be added to keep odors under control; but even that, in a healthy system, is usually not needed. Common sense seems to rule as far as I can see. REgards, Mike.

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

Miguelito

Feb 28, 2004, 7:40 PM

Post #17 of 21 (2066 views)

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Another reason TO FLUSH the paper in an rv

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is because the bathrooms are so damned small there's often not a place for any kind of receptacle. In my rig there's hardly room for the gas, much less something to stuff the paper in. :)

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

Carol Schmidt

Feb 28, 2004, 9:44 PM

Post #18 of 21 (2057 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Another reason TO FLUSH the paper in an rv

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I belonged to a group called RVing Women, several thousand strong, and the advice published in our newsletters, compiled from so-called experts, was always to NOT flush TP in a self-contained RV.

The exception was if you splurged on the special kind of TP designed for RV and boat toilets, and the test you described, putting a few (unused) pieces into a glass of water and stirring once to see how quickly it dissolved, was recommended if you really, really wanted to flush your TP in your RV.

Yeah, bathrooms are not usually the most spacious areas in an RV. We kept our bathroom wastebasket in the shower between showers.

Our first apartment in San Miguel was so small we had to do the same. We found it on the internet, called it The Cave, and moved out of there ASAP.

Carol Schmidt

Miguelito

Feb 29, 2004, 5:42 AM

Post #19 of 21 (2049 views)

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Carol, what were the reasons given?

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I'd be interested to know the justification for not flushing paper. Also, Scott makes a single ply as do plenty of others and it's not different from the expensive "rv paper" that is really a ripoff. Regards, Mike

Los que cantan oran dos veces! (Those who sing pray twice!)

Carol Schmidt

Feb 29, 2004, 1:03 PM

Post #20 of 21 (2034 views)

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Re: [mikelangford] Carol, what were the reasons given?

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Clogging in general, far as I remember. But the audience was women, who use a lot more TP than men in general! I was thinking about that this morning--one man alone probably uses a quarter what two women use. Also, I am guessing that women prefer softer TP in general. The Scott one-ply was much too harsh IMO.

As far as in Mexican housing, I think a big factor would be the water pressure you have. Like most houses, ours has a tank on the roof and the main water pressure force is from gravity, nothing like what we had in the States. If you live in a place with great water pressure, you'd probably have no problems. We have to use the plunger a lot even without flushing TP.

I sure hope there's nothing more to be said about TP!

Carol Schmidt

sfmacaws

Mar 4, 2004, 10:10 PM

Post #21 of 21 (1999 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Carol, what were the reasons given?

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I can't let this die since I just saw the whole post. We are Rvers as well, 2 women, and we have never put any paper down the toilet in our RV. Our black tank gauge works just fine and we attribute that rarity mostly to the lack of paper. From talking to other RVers I think that it is a pretty common practice even in the US of A.

In addition, we spend every winter in the Yucatan and we've never flushed paper in any toilet we've seen on our way here and definitely not in this area. The trashcan is always right by the toilet and if you look at the contents you can be sure what it is designed for.

I was amazed at all the people who said they flush paper here in Mexico. I had no idea that it was done anywhere in this country. Perhaps I'm just not hanging out in the right spots. Or, perhaps it is all an urban myth that Mexicans throughout the country adhere to? Unbelievable! Have any of those who say that they always flush the paper been in a Pemex bathroom? Even in upscale restaurants the trash can next to the toilet is full of paper.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán