Report from from the Northern Border

Report from from the Northern Border

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(Editor's note: The following is the first of a series of postings from a young Mexican woman performing social service work at the Mexico/US border.)

You can't imagine how I look forward to my day off to come to the cyber to check my E-mail. Oh, yes! I'm a cybermaniac now. Everything is OK up here. Too OK. Too crazy, though.

Well, to tell you about what I'm doing I guess I'll have to first put you in context. To those of you who don't know about it, I'm in Nuevo Laredo now working for a shelter for illegal migrants. It's located in a populated area with not too good of a reputation. Situation around here is quite dense. You have to keep both eyes wide open for coyotes and narcos, who try at all costs to get into the shelter to do business with the people we receive. Nuevo Laredo is the favorite border crossing spot for Central Americans with no money, those who come in by train. Most of them are chapines [Guatemalans] and catrachos [Hondurans]. The train, infernal machine, is always busy chopping members off or cutting people in pieces. Heavy, man! The México-Guatemala border is much more difficult to pass than the line to the United States. Only ten percent of Central Americans seeking the American dream are able to reach this frontier. Those who finally get here have spent a month or more on the road, so you may very well imagine their condition upon arrival. The migra and Mexican police abuse them freely, preying on their illegal status. To that you may add the abuse from the maras (gangs of Central Americans) on the trains; and for Hondurans, the abuse from the Guatemalan police. Police in Nuevo Laredo is one of the most corrupt in this country. After the narco open battle that took place here a month or so ago, there have been several police operations in the area, and there are zones where you may see a PFP agent in every corner. This is a blessing for the shelter: maras are rarely seen around here nowadays. We receive about 40% of Mexicans and a good deal of deported persons too. Many of them arrive after a five-day walk, blistered, some of them with sore ulcers, insolated, disenchanted, tired to the death. One came in yesterday begging us to turn him in, saying that he was not capable of trying it again. He is not the first one I see in this condition, and I'm new here.

My work is mainly centered in keeping the shelter livable. I triple as private security agent, psychologist and clerk. My mornings are generally made of study, statistics processing and report scribbling. Cleaning days find me toiling in the rest rooms (Untouchable work). In the afternoons I generally do monitoring, migrant's interviews or I just stay close to them, specially to the women. In the evenings we have to keep watch, make sure there are no coyotes, talk to the migrants and tend to the sick. (Verified observation: I'm no feminist, but men are way less brave than women. For sure.)

This is a work full of challenge, helplessness, desperation and anger, but also replete of emotive moments that the very tension of the environment helps to create.

For example, I encountered a Honduran I've met at the CERESO [jail] in Tehuantepec a month ago. We embraced each other as if we were life long friends. I cannot explain the emotion you feel when you see someone who arrives in one piece. Truth is, it is not a rule that something bad most always happen; it doesn't happen to everyone. Many of them arrive well, but we receive a thousand persons a month, so a mere 10% of accidents or casualties gives you a lot to work and grieve upon. And when things do happen, they are always horrible things. At the end of October police took a man from the shelter. They disappeared him. We have not known anything about him since. We hope that he got away with only a beating and a deportation to account for.

First thing when I wake up every morning is to check the papers for news like, 'Rotten corpse appears on the Bravo river bank'. It is tough to imagine that that decomposed body perhaps belonged to the same person with whom you conversed days ago, a person whose only dream for the moment was to work for a couple of years to give a better future to his family. I must say local newspapers are a bit too sensacionalist on these issues: they even publish the picture of the dead.

As I said, it consoles me to know that most of them make it to the other side.

Things for women are much more heavy. I've never heard a woman raped eight consecutive times. I did not know what to say (not "Oh, how terrible!", not in my life). I saw one of them with her face in ruins and bruises on all of her body. Some bruises! She had fell from the train. Another one asked me to 'approve' on the coyote offering to cross her and her five year old child to the other side. God, they are traffickers of human beings! How can you 'approve' any one of those bastards! You can find only very brave women up here. (And me? I keep trying to learn from them. I feel like in a school, taking lessons on Life, Dignity I and II, Emotion Handling, and the like.)

Well, I think I've described this as if I were in hell, and it is not like that at all. I feel that I am where I need to be at this moment. I keep laughing all the time, for some strange reason. The urging to get into the University I felt weeks ago is all but gone; I don't miss my coffee revolutions, nor reggae (not most of the time, anyway), and with every day I get more and more involved with my work. Everything that happens is happening to me.

I have not told you: we are going to inaugurate a brand new House of the Migrant this December. We will be able to take better care of them. I'm so happy about that. They say Fox will be here for the opening ceremony.

My only complaint here is against the city: no green areas whatsoever to relax. And it is ugly, ugly, ugly. I admit I've been too tense; I've not grown accustomed to see a police patrol following me when I walk on the street, nor to be surrounded by traffickers and gangsters; my back hurts all the time. But things are coming around, slowly; I'm learning to find my place here and not allow the situation to intimidate me. I've been looking for a gym to let steam out, but most of them are known to be narco stores in disguise. Yes, this is a mess. Well, this is the way things are for now. I will look for a sport team of some kind this afternoon. As I live in community and in austerity, I only get 200 pesos a month. That means I don't have enough to pay for a decent gym. I don't know what to do; I'm thinking about this. I try to get up in the morning to jog, but my working day starts at 7 and ends at 11 PM, so it's really hard on me, I'm tired...

Hope to see you soon. A big hug and a kiss. Take care.

Love you,

Blikers

(This post was edited by DavidMcL on Nov 9, 2003, 8:40 AM)

DavidMcL

Nov 9, 2003, 8:34 AM

Post #2 of 27 (3002 views)

Re: [Blikers] Report from from the Northern Border

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(Editor's Note: The following posting is brought forward from the original thread>
Posted by Guapo Gabacho: 09-11-03.)

You sure paint a different story than President Fox. To hear him tell it, the migrant abuse, the coyotes, and the narcos are all created by the policy of the US and the demands of the US consumer.

Guapo Gabacho:

(This post was edited by DavidMcL on Nov 9, 2003, 8:38 AM)

DavidMcL

Nov 9, 2003, 8:37 AM

Post #3 of 27 (2998 views)

Re: [Blikers] Report from from the Northern Border

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(Editor's Note: This posting is brought forward from the original thread.
Posted by Jodielyn - 09-11-03.)

Your post spoke to my heart... Thank you for the clear perspective and the nudge to reorganize my priorities in life.

Dios te Bendiga Blikers!

Jodie

(This post was edited by DavidMcL on Nov 9, 2003, 8:39 AM)

dumois

Nov 9, 2003, 9:41 AM

Post #4 of 27 (2984 views)

Re: [DavidMcL] I must have missed something

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Never thought this was the line President Fox was trying to sell when addressing the matter. Anyway, I don't think that what Fox says is the issue here. I do think that perhaps some practices derived from what came to be known as the Society of Waste have something to do with what happens in the US-Mexico border and in many other places. Of course the problem is not that simple. Reasons and causes form a complex cocktail, difficult to understand and even harder to swallow. Then again, perhaps we should stop placing the blame on others to think a bit about what we can do to help.

Saludos desde Guadalajara,

Dumois

(This post was edited by dumois on Nov 9, 2003, 10:42 AM)

Nov 9, 2003, 10:44 AM

Post #5 of 27 (2967 views)

Re: [dumois] I must have missed something

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Dumois,The perspective of news coverage is quite different on the two sides of the border and in Canada. Fox here seems to blame the US for everything. Drug trafficking is our fault because we want them. Illegal immigration is our fault because we want cheap labor. Deaths during illegal crossing are because we don’t allow easy and legal access. Central Americans in Mexico are there because we don’t give preferred treatment to our closest neighbor and deport them to your country. One of the main reasons I quit living in Mexico was your news media that mirrored these facts daily. The only thing I saw otherwise about the US in Mexico was the dead Afgan babies we killed in the war there.

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We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.

Nov 9, 2003, 12:32 PM

Post #6 of 27 (2949 views)

Re: [DavidMcL] Report from from the Northern Border

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In Reply To

"....the narcos are all created by the policy of the US and the demands of the US consumer."

Rolly

Nov 9, 2003, 1:16 PM

Post #7 of 27 (2942 views)

Re: [jeffsitka] Report from from the Northern Border

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Jeff, your post suffered from the same problem many of us have -- loss of any text following the Quote or the RE feature. Please re-post without using the RE thing.

Someday, Gossmer may fix the bugs in this text editor -- I hope.

Rolly Pirate

Nov 10, 2003, 5:31 PM

Post #8 of 27 (2868 views)

What I was trying to say was...

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"....the narcos are all created by the policy of the US and the demands of the US consumer."

It looks like the market is at work to me. If the demand didn't exist in the US, the narcos and illegals would all stay home. According to a report by the Inter-American Development Bank, remittances to Mexico by migrants working in the US will reach $14.5 billion this year. If we forget about what they might spend in the US, we can say that there is at least $14.5 billion worth of demand for inexpensive labor that is unfulfilled by US workers. I wonder how much the US spends on illegal narcotics?

(This post was edited by jeffsitka on Nov 10, 2003, 5:32 PM)

raferguson

Nov 10, 2003, 8:56 PM

Post #9 of 27 (2840 views)

Re: [Blikers] Report from from the Northern Border

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It is sad to hear how undocumented migrants (illegal aliens in some circles) are abused on both sides of the border. I already knew that the same abuses that Mexico complains about when their nationals are in the USA, are also committed by Mexican government officials on central americans. I did not know that the Guatemalans abuse the Hondurans as well, but we should not be surprised.

Illegal migration is a worldwide phenomena. I was watching French television show refugees trying to catch a train or boat to the UK. (The French shut down the refugee center near Calais under pressure from the UK, because the refugees kept trying to get to the UK). Italy has Romanians, Spain has Ecuadorians and Moroccans, etc. There are people the world over trying to get from poor countries to rich ones, some of them literally dying to get there.

I teach English to immigrants in a homeless shelter where I am sure they don't ask for papers, so in a way I am helping illegal immigrants.

On the other hand, I am not in favor of open borders, I am sure that the US would be swamped by immigrants if the borders were more open than they already are. The US is now at an historic high in terms of immigrants, now over 10% of the population foreign born, so I don't think that the US can or should accept a lot more immigrants.

It is ultimately driven by supply and demand, as long as Mexicans can make 10 times as much money in the US than in Mexico, they will want to come here.

I guess we could really crack down on employers who hire undocumented workers, but I am sure there would be cries of racism. The politicians don't want to offend the Hispanic voters, so they basically do nothing, other than raiding Walmart to get headlines. There is certainly no easy or painless solution.

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

mjr234

Nov 11, 2003, 5:48 AM

Post #10 of 27 (2825 views)

Re: [raferguson] Report from from the Northern Border

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My previous reading of the Mexico - USA border is that is the only land connection between the 1st world and the 3rd world. No insult is intended by the employment of these terms. Mexico is also a conduit, willing or otherwise, for other 3rd world countries to the south. In Europe or Asia, there is a transition along the land borders between "developed"and "under-developed" countries --- or --- as in Australia, there is no land border.

Occaisionally it may be useful to reflect on this relative position of the USA and Mexico and the fact of this difference. In other words, it is because of what you are, as one is compared to the other, and not who you are, that these situations arise.

However, I see little political will in the USA to deal with the situation [IT MUST BE CHEAPER IN DOLLAR COSTS TO EMPLOY TOTALLY DISENFRANCHISED ILLEGAL ALIENS, THAN ONES WITH A LEGAL WORK PERMIT] --- or ---- is it to the mutual beneift of too large a community in each country to see it easily resolved? Fox makes sense to me when he proposes means to deal with the human costs. Unfortunately, too few USA employers see the workers, of any nationality, as human: From the left.

Moisheh

Nov 11, 2003, 6:20 AM

Post #11 of 27 (2818 views)

Re: [mjr234] Report from from the Northern Border

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I live in Sonora and thus see the illegal border crossings all the time. Many of my friends have gone to the other side. I am a Canadian so I see the whole border issue a little different than yanks. I dont blame the Mexican men for travelling thousands of miles to seek work. If I were a poor Oaxacan I would do the same for my family. The fault lies with Mexico. They have failed to provide sufficient employment for the people. Most migrants would sooner live in Mexico. I also fail to understand why the USA government has not curtailed the mass illegal immigration. How can you allow !4.5 billion dollars to leave the economy every year. Actually that statement is not quite true. Next year the figure will probably be 10 or 20 % higher. If that money were injected into the US economy today what would Greenspan be saying about the "state of the economy"? Would that be enough to state that economy is flourishing? Those billions are not creating any new jobs or new investment in the USA. It is almost like foreign aid for Mexico. What about the socail aspect of having so many illegal immigrants: Do they raise families in the USA, pay taxes to fund the education of their children, participate in politics, belong to Lions or Rotary, do volunteer work at the local church, have kids in boy scouts?? I think the answer is NO. They live "underground " and do not add much that is positive to "life in America". This comment is not made to condemn them. Most have come a long way, paid some scumbag a lot of menoey to get to the USA, and they work very hard. BUT that does nothing for America.

Most border states would like to grant them amnesty or have guest workers. I have not seen a definitive solution but if this issue is not addressed by the American gov. soon it will spell disater for the Southwest.

esperanza

Nov 11, 2003, 1:14 PM

Post #12 of 27 (2754 views)

Re: [Moisheh] Report from from the Northern Border

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"BUT that does nothing for America..."

What exactly would you eat if it were not for undocumented workers in the USA picking crops, packing fresh fruits and vegetables, butchering beef and hogs, and doing all the stoop-labor and dirty work that many natives of the USA will no longer deign to do? The next time you reach for a Red Delicious apple, be it in the States or in Sonora, know that Mexican hands undoubtedly picked it. The next time you go to McDonalds, think about the man who lives far from his family but butchered the beef for your hamburger. The next time you eat a strawberry, recognize the brown hands that packed the box. The next time you look at your paycheck, think about the person who gladly works a job you would not do for pay that you would not accept.

And the next time you breathe deeply, stand up straight, drink clean water, work 40 hours a week, and kiss your wife and kids when you come home...know that there are others who can't live the way you live despite their DOING SOMETHING FOR AMERICA.

It's not about their choice. It's about economic necessity. The fault lies with Mexico? No, Mexico is not the same sort of paternalistic government that exists in the United States. Each undocumented person who in good faith crosses the border into the United States to work takes personal responsibility for the hunger of his family. Lives are risked and lost every day for the opportunity to earn what is necessary to send back to the ones at home.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Nov 11, 2003, 1:15 PM)

Nov 11, 2003, 2:32 PM

Post #13 of 27 (2742 views)

Re: [esperanza] Report from from the Northern Border

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MYTH: Americans won't do the work that illegals do.

TRUTH: Prior to 1965 when the disastrous Immigration Bill was passed, there was very little immigration. In fact, between 1925 and 1965, there was even a period of net emigration out of the United States. During this time, our grass was getting cut, our meat was being packed, our children were being watched and our houses were being cleaned. The idea that somehow we suddenly can't run a country without an unlimited supply of foreigners is absurd.

Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do.

Americans won't allow themselves to be exploited like illegals do, but they WILL do the work that illegals do for fair compensation and benefits. If Americans did the work that illegals do at higher pay, would that benefit the consumer? You bet it would in the long run. But many Americans who do not care about America's future are consumers who favor the idea of exploiting illegal workers because it keeps commodity and service prices down in the short term.

HALF TRUTH: Illegal aliens are better off in the U.S. doing lousy menial jobs than they are in their own country.

TRUTH: That may be true for the Illegal aliens in the short run (and businesses that hire them), but for many "undocumented immigrants" (Mexicans make up the majority), the "American legacy of exploitation of immigrants" remains in the minds of their children for many generations to come creating resentment of America and hinders assimilation of even their American born offspring. Resentment of America has created anti-American organizations such as MECHA whose nationwide college and high school members must pledge their support to forcefully take back what they call "Aztlan," the U.S. Southwest ceded in 1846 to the U.S. in the Mexican War.

HALF TRUTH: Illegals come to the U.S. for jobs to support their families, and wives and kids in there homeland.

TRUTH: Many do. But record numbers of those wives and kids are sneaking over the border to join their breadwinner in the U.S. But most alarming, is the record numbers of dead-beat dads that find an easy escape from their responsibilities in their homeland and in fact abandon their families. There is also strong empirical evidence that even illegal aliens who had good jobs in their homeland still want to be in the U.S. -- most of the world's people want to come to the U.S. because it is a very good place to be for many more reasons than just for a job.

MYTH: Since illegal alien farm workers come to the U.S. for "jobs Americans won't take," they would not present a problem if they were given temporary visas to allow them to work the fields and then return to Mexico (or other country).

TRUTH: Millions of illegal alien workers who could be doing all the farm work that "Americans won't do" are already in the U.S. Almost all illegals who come to work the fields do not make a career of low paying, hard working farm jobs. The belief that only pitiful third world laborers can be content in doing menial farm work is obviated when it is seen that almost all of these workers sooner or later "head for the city" for the better jobs.

HALF TRUTH: Illegals are enjoying the fruit of the recent great American robust economy.

TRUTH: While many Americans are benefiting from a robust economy, government data shows that record numbers of Americans are falling into poverty in spite of overall good economic conditions -- and in spite of 35 years of record government spending on social programs. This down slide can be directly linked to illegals flooding the low scale job market -- virtually importing poverty faster than it can be irradiated. Had there not been any massive illegal immigration in the past 20 years, poverty in much of America may well have been reduced significantly.

MYTH: Employers are solely responsible for illegal immigration because they attract illegals by providing low paying jobs.

TRUTH: Illegals are directly responsible for their illegal presence. Blaming the entire problem on employers for illegal immigration is like blaming a women for her own rape because she dressed to sexy and the rapist couldn't resist her.

MYTH: If the U.S. pumps money into Mexico and other third world countries for the purpose of improving their economies, it will create jobs thus eliminating the need to illegally immigrate to the U.S.

TRUTH: The only way that the improvement of other countries' economies would appreciably stop illegal immigration to the U.S., is if those countries' economies were to become as strong as that of the U.S. Thousands of visa over stayers from non-third world countries like Canada, France, Israel, are also part of the illegal immigration problem and those countries have good economies. The U.S. is not the only country to which illegal immigrants seek to immigrate. Countries all over the world are experiencing illegal immigration driven by "wanting a better life." As soon as Third World countries become even only a little bit more prosperous than their neighbors, they rush to keep strangers out. Mexico, for example, does not tolerate its border violations by Guatemalans. Malaysia recently announced that in the case of repeat offenders, it will flog illegal aliens, their employers, and anyone who smuggles them into the country. In early January, 2000, over 35,000 illegal Zimbabwean workers were tossed out Of South Africa. So forget it! The U.S. should be concerned with improving its own economy and strictly enforcing its immigration laws.

My grandparents came here legally, why can't they?

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We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.

Moisheh

Nov 11, 2003, 3:46 PM

Post #14 of 27 (2728 views)

Re: [esperanza] Report from from the Northern Border

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Esperanza: I was not condemning the illegals that cross. I was just stating some facts. Here are some more for you to digest. El Imparcial ( Hermosillo) stated today that Phoenix alone recieves $886,000 per day from Polleros who help people across. The article also stated that the average cost has risen to $2500 per person. According to my calculations that is 3544 migrants per day!! And that is only in one of the fronterras. If it is that easy to cross the border where is Tom Ridge? How many of these migrants are not from Mexico or other Latin America countries? Is this a secure border? Last week there was a shoot out on I-10 just outside Casa Grande. 4 people were killed and the interstate was closed for more than 8 hours. These were smugglers fighting for clients. Phoenix is quickly becoming a murder city because of this activity. The police do not even pursue most of these cases due to lack of staff. This is what I meant by this illegal activity changing the face of the Southwest. Can a civilized nation permit this type of chaos to continue? Will the problems spread even further north? BTW : The Mexicans that work in the beef industry are mostly legal immigrants. Today many of them are not hispanic, but from Laos.

Nov 11, 2003, 6:25 PM

Post #15 of 27 (2711 views)

Re: [Guapo Gabacho] Report from from the Northern Border

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"Those in favor of foreign labor are corporations who are addicted to cheap labor. They are the ones who are benefiting. But their benefit comes at the American tax payer's expense when you consider that the American tax payer is virtually subsidizing the labor costs of the greedy corporations by supplying the illegal foreign workers and their families with welfare, free education, free medical, WICs, housing assistance, etc. -- something the corporations won't do."

I'm not sure that it's just greed that motivates businesses to hire undocumented workers. Many industries are in a real profit squeeze from increased operating expenses and foreign competition. The company I work for competes with companies in Chile, where the employees earn in a day what we must pay our starting employees for an hour. I don't suppose that they have all of the benefits that we must provide, either.

I don't live where there's a lot of big industry, but most of the undocumented workers that I have met work in small or medium sized businesses. They pay taxes, however they don't file for tax returns. I don't suppose that they'll ever see any of the money that they pay into Social Security, either.

My bet is that we will see a guest worker program with Mexico within the next ten years. They need the jobs and we need the workers to pay into the Social Security fund to pay for the baby-boomers' retirement.

By the way, I recruit for my company. We have a chronic labor shortage and could not operate without immigrant labor. However, we are very careful to only hire documented workers.

Nov 11, 2003, 6:46 PM

Post #16 of 27 (2701 views)

Re: [jeffsitka] Report from from the Northern Border

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I don't feel that filling out an I-9 form for employees is being "very careful to only hire documented workers", it is just complying with the law.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.

esperanza

Nov 11, 2003, 7:18 PM

Post #17 of 27 (2698 views)

Re: [jeffsitka] Report from from the Northern Border

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You know, it's interesting what you mentioned about 'we need the Social Security income to pay...' etc. I worked for years with undocumented workers in both Illinois and California and most if not all of them had fake Social Security numbers, which allowed them to get their jobs in the first place. All of those workers paid into Social Security, and not one of them had a hope of receiving anything back from it. I'm sure the same situation exists today.

I was also interested in the comment about many workers in the meat packing industry being from Laos. My comments were based on knowledge from friends, both Mexican and Anglo, in Nebraska and Illinois~where the majority of the packing industry workers are Mexican.

It's also interesting that no one has talked about the Bracero Program, during which the United States brought Mexican workers across the border for the express purpose of doing work that no one else would do. Investigate, if you will, how the Mexicans were treated as they were 'examined' for work suitablity. There was little difference between those 'examinations' and the treatment of the Africans coming off the slave boats in the 18th and 19th Centuries. I've talked to some of the men who worked under the Bracero Program. Read my first post in this thread again; there's little different today.

And one last comment: the Mexico/USA border situation began in the middle 1800s, when the United States was building the great East-West railroad system. Most of the railroad construction workers were male immigrants from China, brought to the States especially to build the railroad. The United States had then (as it has now, under different guises) a quota system to allow certain numbers of certain ethnic groups into the country. The quota for Chinese excluded the families of the railroad workers--their wives and their children. The Chinese men began to bring their families into Mexico, and from Mexico across the border into the United States. The border system we have today was created not to exclude the Mexican, but rather to exclude the Chinese.

Don't believe me? Look it up.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Nov 12, 2003, 7:11 AM

Post #18 of 27 (2658 views)

Re: [Guapo Gabacho] Report from from the Northern Border

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"I don't feel that filling out an I-9 form for employees is being "very careful to only hire documented workers", it is just complying with the law. "

What are you suggesting? Do you have of any knowledge of our company's hiring practises? Have you ever had the INS scrutinize your business? We are very careful to hire only documented workers.

Nov 12, 2003, 7:35 AM

Post #19 of 27 (2651 views)

Re: [jeffsitka] Report from from the Northern Border

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This is the US law. What do you do more that is "very careful"?

Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

PURPOSE
The Immigration Reform and Control Act made all U.S. employers responsible to verify the employment eligibility and identity of all employees hired to work in the United States after November 6, 1986. To implement the law, employers are required to complete Employment Eligibility Verification forms (Form I-9) for all employees, including U.S. citizens.

FOR WHO MUST EMPLOYERS COMPLETE FORM I-9?
Every U.S. employer must have a Form I-9 in its files for each new employee, unless:

the employee was hired before November 7, 1986, and has been continuously employed by the same employer.
Form I-9 need not be completed for those individuals:
providing domestic services in a private household that are sporadic, irregular, or intermittent;
providing services for the employer as an independent contractor (i.e. carry on independent business, contract to do a piece of work according to their own means and methods and are subject to control only as to results for whom the employer does not set work hours or provide necessary tools to do the job, or whom the employer does not have authority to hire and fire); and
providing services for the employer, under a contract, subcontract, or exchange entered into after November 6, 1986. (In such cases, the contractor is the employer for I-9 purposes; for example, a temporary employment agency.)

EMPLOYEE’S RESPONSIBILITY REGARDING FORM I-9
A new employee must complete Section 1 of a Form I-9 no later than close of business on his/her first day of work. The employee’s signature holds him/her responsible for the accuracy of the information provided. The employer is responsible for ensuring that the employee completes Section 1 in full. No documentation from the employee is required to substantiate Section 1 information provided by the employee.

EMPLOYER’S RESPONSIBILITY REGARDING FORM I-9
The employer is responsible ensuring completion of the entire form. No later than close of business on the employee’s third day of employment services, the employer must complete section 2 of the Form I-9. The employer must review documentation presented by the employee and record document information of the form. Proper documentation establishes both that the employee is authorized to work in the U.S. and that the employee who presents the employment authorization document is the person to whom it was issued. The employer should supply to the employee the official list of acceptable documents for establishing identity and work eligibility. The employer may accept any List A document, establishing both identity and work eligibility, or combination of a List B document (establishing identity) and List C document (establishing work eligibility), that the employee chooses from the list to present (the documentation presented is not required to substantiate information provided in Section 1). The employer must examine the document(s) and accept them if they reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee who presents them. Requesting more or different documentation than the minimum necessary to meet this requirement may constitute an unfair immigration-related employment practice. If the documentation presented by an employee does not reasonably appear to be genuine or relate to the employee who presents them, employers must refuse acceptance and ask for other documentation from the list of acceptable documents that meets the requirements. An employer should not continue to employ an employee who cannot present documentation that meets the requirements.

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We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.

gpk

Nov 12, 2003, 3:32 PM

Post #20 of 27 (2605 views)

Re: [Guapo Gabacho] Report from from the Northern Border

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I believe the financial penalties against employers of illegal aliens were removed at the behest of the business community in the US who wanted tobe able to continue to exploit the cheap foreign labor. By the way, unless you are a native American, your ancestors were immigrants--and maybe illegal at that. No amount of aid to Mexico and it's people could compensate for the 150+ years of abuse by the US, including the confiscation of the entire Southwest andCalifornia.

Nov 12, 2003, 3:43 PM

Post #21 of 27 (2603 views)

Re: [gpk] Report from from the Northern Border

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gpk,

My Polish family immigrated through Ellis Island.

No compensation is owed or due, none.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children.

HHERRINGTON

Nov 12, 2003, 4:43 PM

Post #22 of 27 (2597 views)

Re: [gpk] Report from from the Northern Border

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In Reply To

----------------------------------------------------

Life is too complicated to be expressed in one liners.

Nov 12, 2003, 5:38 PM

Post #23 of 27 (2577 views)

Re: [jeffsitka] Report from from the Northern Border

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"The employer must examine the document(s) and accept them if they reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee who presents them."

An interview will tell a diligent employer a lot. I verify questionable documents with the issuing authorities and I am familiar with the appearance of the genuine article. I check references. When I recruit from overseas, I use a reputable agent. That's more than simply accepting whatever documents are presented and filling out the I-9 form. I'm puzzled as to why you would assume that's all that we do when you don't know me or my employer.

The purpose of my original post was to suggest that the immigration picture is perhaps more complex than you suggest. For example, you state that, " There is also strong empirical evidence that even illegal aliens who had good jobs in their homeland still want to be in the U.S. -- most of the world's people want to come to the U.S. because it is a very good place to be for many more reasons than just for a job." Yet there is also a housing boom in Mexico, homes build by immigrants that intend to return an live in them.

We have many legal migrants in our plant that return home every year. I know from conversations with Mexicans that one reason that illegals don't go back to Mexico is the fear of being caught when returning to their jobs north of the border.

alex .

Nov 13, 2003, 8:22 AM

Post #24 of 27 (2528 views)

Re: [jeffsitka] vigilance is always stepped up for the holidays

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The pull toward home for Christmas can be irresistable . Some chance it, many do not. Que triste.
Alex

TomG

Apr 24, 2004, 8:04 PM

Post #25 of 27 (2378 views)