Forums > Areas > Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region

Bubba

Sep 9, 2003, 2:19 PM

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Amigos del Lago

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I asked this question elsewhere on this forum but buried the question deep down in another thread that seems to have run its course. I've noticed that threads do do that even when the subject is interesting.

When Amigos del Lago started its big and successful membership drive last year, I was among the first in line to join up and even threw in a supplemental donation. Bubba is not normally a donator so this is bigger news that it may appear to be.

Then, two things happened that sort of irritated me a little:

1) Living Lakes went off and designated every body of water represented in South Africa as a candidate. Bubba is inherently suspicious of such a practice since the 1950s when damn near every student in Greenville High School appeared in the Who's Who Section of the high school yearbook in a burst of (ironic white segregated public school) faculty egalitarianism meant to make poor dirt farming white country folk in a hard scrabble region feel better. If every lake pusher who went all the way to Johannesburg was designated a winner, then, as they like to say in France, everybody has been through there except the Metro. The only non-winners were those who failed to show up in the first place. Sounds like a come-on to me.

2) The minute the Amigos del Lago reps got back here and held an election, the whole organization seemed to go up in flames. The public cat fighting and bickering were embarassing to behold and Bubba tuned out.

By the way, not one time during the past year has Amigos del Lago bothered to contact me or solicit funds or help from me. Maybe, you say, I should have taken the initiative. However, organizations which seem to break down into vicious internecine warfare right after their most successful moments at the public trough are unpleasant groups in which to participate and are to be avoided.

Now, here are my questions? Have I been unfair? Has Amigos del Lago got its house in order? Is there a published statement and budget? Have they stopped their miserable political infighting and moved forward with an agenda aimed at their only real purpose? I am not interested in the public exposition of self-touting propaganda via their own web site(s). I am interested in input from locals more involved that am I.

There must be more like me out there who would appreciate some insight as the organization's 2003 funding drive gets underway and they make decisions as to how to allocate scarce resources to the community.

I am also seriously prepared to be proven wrong about this and participate financially again this year.

Thanks in advance for your anticipated input.

Jean

Sep 9, 2003, 4:44 PM

Post #2 of 24 (1338 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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It's a fair question. My position with either the old organization or the new one has always been to help, but to stay out of the fray.

I believe that if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

It was a really bad situation last year but as far as I know they have pulled their act together and are really trying to help the lake.

My position has always been, no matter what charity, that if one person, lake or animal gets helped then that is all that matters to me.

I do what I can to help in any small way that I can with the hope it will benefit someone. But I stay out of the organization parts.
Retirement Communities
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Bubba

Sep 9, 2003, 5:20 PM

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Re: [Tuatha_de_Danann] Amigos del Lago

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Tuatha:

Thanks for the response. May I ask you what you mean by the old organization vs. the new One? I'm sorry, but I was unaware that there was a major reorganization. It is all a mystery to me.

My other issue with what you say is that, if we help perpetuate, through donations, a poorly run and inefficient organization seemingly distracted by runaway egos, are we not helping to prevent others from starting alternative efforts for lack of resources?

Just because Amigos del Lago is and was there when Living Lakes exhibited an interest doesn't mean that that must be the one and only local vehicle for change. Often, we become convinced that we can only use one community resource simply because it is there, not, necessarily, because its management is doing a good job for a worthy cause.

After all, we are talking here about only one thing. Saving Lake Chapala. That is a long term task and Living Lakes participation can be put off until such time as the Chapala community has its act together. Otherwise we risk ridicule and exclusion.

If one's dollar can go to save five dogs instead of one by thoughtful allocation among alternative service providers, isn't that the way to go?

And, what, if any, are the alternatives?

Maybe Amigos del Lago is actually doing a good job. If so, what was all that nastiness about last year?

(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 9, 2003, 5:31 PM)

Jerry@Ajijic

Sep 9, 2003, 8:44 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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Bubba, We are members of ADL and help in a small way. There were some differences between the "old" officers and the "new" officers. One difference was that seemingly there had not been an election of officers and/or directors in a number of years. When they did have aopen, well advertised election the "new" bunch won. Another problem was that there are 2 primary groups involved in efforts to save the lake. The Living Lakes people said (quite reasonably) that they must work together. They had not been doing that but with the new group they are.

As for Living Lakes, they can not really do anything but help with public opinion and political pressure. They will not likely select all of the nominated lakes to be permenant members but if we are lucky enough for them to select LC it can not hurt anything and We think will help.

Bubba

Sep 10, 2003, 7:35 AM

Post #5 of 24 (1285 views)

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Amigos del Lago

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Thanks, Jerry:

You folks ceratainly have my support going forward.

It appears that the political infighting that detracted last year is over.

Good luck in your endeavors.

Bubba

Bubba

Sep 10, 2003, 1:01 PM

Post #6 of 24 (1255 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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Well. I just got back from Central Ajijic where I go for coffee and my morning MURAL fix and am informed by front page headlines in the Wednesday morning edition of that Guadalajara daily that Lake Chapala has been accepted as a full fledged project of the the Living Lakes organization as of September 16th. That paper arrives here about 11:00AM. The rest of you must sleep in late.

Anyway, I am happy if skeptical. We shall see.

Bubba

Kip

Sep 10, 2003, 1:12 PM

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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Wonderful, wonderful wonderful!! It's a start!

Kip
kip

bthunder

Sep 10, 2003, 1:36 PM

Post #8 of 24 (1240 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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Can those of us not there get the article online?
Tracie

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Caminante, no hay camino.
Se hace camino al andar.
*******

johanson

Sep 10, 2003, 1:40 PM

Post #9 of 24 (1239 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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Here is an email I just got from a couple who have lived lakeside now for two rainy seasons. It was in response to a question about the lake level.

"The lake is at the highest we have ever seen it" (two rainy seasons) "but it still has a way to go before it approaches the old levels that made Chapala a tourist and boating haven. Still, it's encouraging that the lake isn't just drying up as the nay sayers would have one believe.
There was so much rain in Central Mexico that the dams were in danger of spilling over. So, they dumped more water into the Lerma and the politicians took credit for it. The farmers objected even though they were drowning in it and shut down a dam for four days before they were talked out of it. Nothing changes."

johanson

Sep 10, 2003, 1:51 PM

Post #10 of 24 (1235 views)

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Re: [bthunder] Amigos del Lago

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bthunder wrote "Can those of us not there get the article online?"

Sure it's easy. Try clicking on this.

http://online.wsj.com/...uranSGbauIm4,00.html

let me know if it doesn't work

Pete

(This post was edited by johanson on Sep 10, 2003, 1:53 PM)

Kip

Sep 10, 2003, 2:06 PM

Post #11 of 24 (1225 views)

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Re: [johanson] Amigos del Lago

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Hi Pete, Is this the article about the lake being accepted? I got the old article. Is there a second step or something that I'm not doing?

Kip
kip

Bubba

Sep 10, 2003, 2:07 PM

Post #12 of 24 (1225 views)

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Re: [johanson] Amigos del Lago

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Pete & bthunder:

Go to www.mural.com for 9/10/003:

Go to archives:

Headline: Entra Chapala a Living Lakes

Also of interest is an article in that same web site on the extraordinary corn crop they have had this year because of the incredible rains.

This has been a banner year and the lake has gone from a 20% to a 30% of capacity level. This is better than some of you may believe.

And now, the Livings Lakes endowment.

johanson

Sep 10, 2003, 2:26 PM

Post #13 of 24 (1213 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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Oops sorry. I gave you the link to the Wall Street Journal article, the question was about the mural article

Pete

Bubba

Sep 10, 2003, 2:38 PM

Post #14 of 24 (1206 views)

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Re: [johanson] Amigos del Lago

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Pete:

You may not know this but the Wall Street Journal publishes a Mexican addition that appears in MURAL every Wednesday as a two page supplement in Spanish which printed a version of the facile Lake Chapala article . You referred our other correspondents to the U.S. version of the same article which was different in some aspects. Both articles had the depth of a Tammy Faye Baker interview regarding her assessment of the prospect of eternal life in Jim's arms. I am sure that that was not your intention.

Just to let you know.

bthunder

Sep 10, 2003, 3:21 PM

Post #15 of 24 (1199 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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I'm fine, guys. I got to the Mural article. I'm reading it like a first-grader, but I'm doing it.

Thanks Pete, I already had the WSJ article. Didn't even know about the Guad Mural. I first thought Bubba had gone to town to get his "daily fix" of looking at murals.

Nothing about Bubba would have surprised me.
Tracie

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Caminante, no hay camino.
Se hace camino al andar.
*******

Bubba

Sep 10, 2003, 3:33 PM

Post #16 of 24 (1196 views)

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Re: [bthunder] Amigos del Lago

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bthunder (Tracie):

I don't know how you meant that but I took it as a compliment.

Pending further good or bad news, this has been an auspicious day for us committed Lakesiders.

Thanks.

johanson

Sep 10, 2003, 3:40 PM

Post #17 of 24 (1191 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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No I didn't know that the WSJ publishes in the Mural, cool.

I phone Ajijic about 4 times per week, (sometimes VoIP, sometimes cheap phone card) i just got off the line. A friend told me that it started raining sometime before 5 AM and quit at about 11 AM and that it must have rained a good 5 cm. How great. I wish I had been there. I can hardly wait to get back to the rains.

What I wrote although true doesn't make sense. It hadn't rained here for more than 2 months (WA just south of Vancouver, BC) We've had 2 days of rain out of 5 now and I want to get the heck out of here because I hate the rain.

Maybe it's because when it starts raining here it may not stop for a month or four. But when it rains in Ajijic, you know that there will be sun the next day

Bubba

Sep 10, 2003, 9:36 PM

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Re: [johanson] Amigos del Lago

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Did you guys know that Living Lakes is an organization that is only eight years old according to Mural and has supposedly consulted in the rehabilitation of three bodies of water. Lake Baikal, The Dead Sea and Lake Constance in Germany. Who among you reading this thread can tell me what Living Lakes has done to rehabilitate these water basins? Is the Dead Sea no longer dead? Are Lake Baikal and Lake Constance returned to vibrant and healthy life by heroic recuperative measures stimulated by Living Lakes consultants? What were the goals of the organization in these regions? Were those goals achieved? I must look into this. Eight years is not much time to rehabilitate an ancient body of water such as Lake Baikal.

Are we being shined on?

just a question.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 10, 2003, 10:07 PM)

Bubba

Sep 11, 2003, 9:48 AM

Post #19 of 24 (1111 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Amigos del Lago

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My Spanish teacher tells me I mis-read the MURAL article on past lake rehabilitaion by Living Lakes. Apparently there are 23 member lake organizations and the article was simply citing, Baikal, Constance and the Dead Sea as being among the more prominent lakes where work has been accomplished.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 11, 2003, 9:49 AM)

FeelinGroovy

Sep 11, 2003, 11:17 AM

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Amigos del Lago

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Jerry,

Can you provide the group with any info what the past and current efforts and future plans are of Amigos del Lago? Do they have a website?

The following website is that of Mono Lake, CA and the local group that worked with Living Lakes Int'l.
http://www.monolake.org/

I lived in the town of Bishop in Owens Valley not far from Mono Lake in the early '80s and have seen the marketing campaign this grass roots group used to get attention and money to fight the big bucks and burracracy that is California Politics. I remember what the lake looked like at the time and have seen the huge improvements in the past decade.

I'm wondering if ADL has plans - or maybe they've already started - to use what this group has learned ... and/or other groups. Getting the attention, special designation and support of LLI is great but the problems need to be dealt with locally on many fronts by the people who are familiar with the situation.

Another question, does ADL have Mexican Nationals as members or is this a Norte Americano organization? It would make a big difference.

I'm just interested in environmental issues, and I plan to move to Ajijic next spring, and I'm just asking questions so don't jump all over me :)
Libby

Jerry@Ajijic

Sep 12, 2003, 6:36 AM

Post #21 of 24 (1056 views)

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Re: [Libby] Amigos del Lago

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Libby, From what I know, Living Lakes does not do much directly. What they seem to do is help focus attention on a lake that need help. They could help in securing some money but generally I think that real help in rehabing a lake is the hands of the politicians. With a internalional organization bringing attention to a serious problem the pols will be more likely to act. Right now we are running into the same thing that has happened in the past. We have had so far a very good rainy season and the lake is coming up. With this the pols will sit back and do nothing . With international and local pressure (ADL) maybe the will try to fix someof the underlinging causes of the lake's problems.

Uncle Donnie

Sep 15, 2003, 7:13 PM

Post #22 of 24 (994 views)

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Amigos del Lago

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Hi Libby,

From what little I know from just being a member, the presidency of ADL must stay with a Mexican citizen. Other officers can be gringos.

And many Mexican ecologists and activists have been working on this cause for many years. A lot of folks don't hear about them because they don't make the gringo papers and magazines. A couple of years back the local governments sponsored a relay from Chapala to Guadalajara. Runners carried a jar of water from the lake and the Mayor of Guadalajara was supposed to drink from it when it arrived. I think some kind of bet was involved.

Shamans, runners, support vehicles, local and national media, and all sorts of politicians were in attendance. And about 7 or 8 gringos.

I have a great locally produced calendar which one of the area groups sells to raise money for their publicity campaign aimed at the citizens. Look at www.geocities.com/biojaco2000. And there are many other groups and individuals working to reach a solution, just not all are gringos. We need to recognize the fact that the Mexicans have been trying to solve this problem for a long time and that maybe the publicity and political heat to be enjoyed by membership in LLI might get those in power, those who can force adherence to prior agreements on water sharing, and those who can work with each segment of the population to assure that each does what they can to alleviate the numerous problems facing the lake to actually take positive action.

I'm sure they want and appreciate our help but the Mexicans are the only ones who can solve this, and all their other problems. Let's support them any way we can---it's for the benefit of everyone.

Just a few opinions, but damn good ones!

Shameless self-promotion:
http://www.headformexico.com

FeelinGroovy

Sep 16, 2003, 8:36 AM

Post #23 of 24 (966 views)

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Re: [Uncle Donnie] Amigos del Lago

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Thank you Jerry and Don for your replies. I found the website - http://www.amigosdelago.org/

This is great news that it is a Mexican organization. It makes a lot more sense. Like someone said, Mexico is where the U.S. was 50 years ago in terms of environmental awareness and activities. I think we as guests can and should be supportive of these efforts in whatever ways make sense.

Here is a story that along the same lines:

http://www.chapala.com/chapala/actual.html

I can't wait to get out of this cubicle and join you all in Mexico! :)
Libby

sandykayak

Sep 16, 2003, 8:52 AM

Post #24 of 24 (959 views)

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Re: [Libby] Amigos del Lago

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I second Libby's "I can't wait to get out of this cubicle and join you" comment.

Fortunately, I get my daily online Mexico fixes that have been very special today with maryellen's posting of the colima volcano where i clicked on their photos of ajijic and their house.

then i delighted in reading about the manzanillo beaches.....
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque