Forums > General > Living, Working, Retiring

Dave

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #1 of 13 (5283 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

I have read/heard conflicting reports about renouncing with regard to obtaining Mexican citizenship (not of Mexican lineage). Does one have to renounce U.S. citizenship in the presence of a U.S consular official? If not,does Mexico share this information (renouncing)with the U.S.? Also,please reference your replies with official (Mexican or U.S.)site documentation.

DavidMTY

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #2 of 13 (5266 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

You do renounce US citizenship, but NOT to a US consular official. You renounce before the Mexican Secretariat of Foreign Relations. The US State department works on a don't ask, don't tell basis at present, after being hard nosed about it and getting taken to court and losing to people who they stripped of nationality based on Mexican renouncements coming to their attention. If you aske a consular official their opinion, they will invariably discourage you from adopting a second nationality for a few pertinent reasons, but they will acknowledge that at present you can do it without their objection and maintain your US citizenship despite the unAmerican and unpleseant statements to the Mexican Secretariat.Regarding the sharing of information, you should assume the US will get the info, but as Jim in Cancun implied, it is not likely it will be because Mexico shared it. The State Department really has its hands tied these days. Just look at the case of the American (Arab lineage) Taliban born in Lousiana. If they haven't stripped him of his nationality, it would be an insult if they could get you. The only qualifier here is that in your nice long lifetime, the interpretation of the words "intent" and preponderance of evidence" with regard to your renouncing could be reinterpreted in the future and cause you some degree of headache under the wrong conditions. There is no law on the books to guarantee your double nationality at 100%. And do keep in mind, in Mexico, on assuming the Mexican nationality, in Mexican territory you do abandon your ability to run to the US consulate if you get in a predicament, you must use your Mexican passport to visit all countries other than the US, you must deal with two tax authorities as if you were not dual nationaled, and wills become somewhat more challenging.The thread 11 down has links to the State Department in one of my posts which should give you more confidence in our answers, in addition to other sundry stuff.Best...David(MTY): I have read/heard conflicting reports about renouncing with regard to obtaining Mexican citizenship (not of Mexican lineage). Does one have to renounce U.S. citizenship in the presence of a U.S consular official? If not,does Mexico share this information (renouncing)with the U.S.? Also,please reference your replies with official (Mexican or U.S.)site documentation.

Dave

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #3 of 13 (5264 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

:David, thanks. Could you provide an official site or documentation that confirms this? If renunciation is not preformed in the presence of a U.S. official i'm not worried about it. I have read the Supreme Court decisions. :I'm sure you're aware that the following poster is incorrect. Mexico only recognizes dual citizenship of IT'S nationals or certain decendants of same. Not very sporting of them. : You do renounce US citizenship, but NOT to a US consular official. You renounce before the Mexican Secretariat of Foreign Relations. The US State department works on a don't ask, don't tell basis at present, after being hard nosed about it and getting taken to court and losing to people who they stripped of nationality based on Mexican renouncements coming to their attention. If you aske a consular official their opinion, they will invariably discourage you from adopting a second nationality for a few pertinent reasons, but they will acknowledge that at present you can do it without their objection and maintain your US citizenship despite the unAmerican and unpleseant statements to the Mexican Secretariat.: Regarding the sharing of information, you should assume the US will get the info, but as Jim in Cancun implied, it is not likely it will be because Mexico shared it. The State Department really has its hands tied these days. Just look at the case of the American (Arab lineage) Taliban born in Lousiana. If they haven't stripped him of his nationality, it would be an insult if they could get you. The only qualifier here is that in your nice long lifetime, the interpretation of the words "intent" and preponderance of evidence" with regard to your renouncing could be reinterpreted in the future and cause you some degree of headache under the wrong conditions. There is no law on the books to guarantee your double nationality at 100%. And do keep in mind, in Mexico, on assuming the Mexican nationality, in Mexican territory you do abandon your ability to run to the US consulate if you get in a predicament, you must use your Mexican passport to visit all countries other than the US, you must deal with two tax authorities as if you were not dual nationaled, and wills become somewhat more challenging.: The thread 11 down has links to the State Department in one of my posts which should give you more confidence in our answers, in addition to other sundry stuff.: Best...David(MTY): : I have read/heard conflicting reports about renouncing with regard to obtaining Mexican citizenship (not of Mexican lineage). Does one have to renounce U.S. citizenship in the presence of a U.S consular official? If not,does Mexico share this information (renouncing)with the U.S.? Also,please reference your replies with official (Mexican or U.S.)site documentation.

DavidMTY

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #4 of 13 (5265 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements (2)

Can't Post |

Dave, some comments on yours: If you are comfortable with the court decisions, it sounds like you are on the path to becoming Mexican...welcome! Regarding the following poster, they seem blissfully incorrect though in their case the oversimplified interpretation seems harmsless enough, so I hope we are all happy now.Funny the way laws interpretations' change. For example it was the "right" of millions of Mexicans to have Visas with no expiration date, but the Department of Justice changed its mind supposedly due to terrorists and is in the process of revolking them all.Finally, your comment on how sporting of Mexico to only recognize Mexicans by birth involved as dual citizens is a bull's eye on why these things are never open and shut cases, and the double standard, which, by the way, in this case, is not mirrored for the US naturalized nationals. If Mexico decided to enforce policy, I don't think Bush would make it a national priority to lobby for all the poor dual national Americans by birth, nor would there be much of a peep, in contrast to what Fox has done in the current immigration accords.Best...David(MTY)
: :David, thanks. Could you provide an official site or documentation that confirms this? If renunciation is not preformed in the presence of a U.S. official i'm not worried about it. I have read the Supreme Court decisions. : :I'm sure you're aware that the following poster is incorrect. Mexico only recognizes dual citizenship of IT'S nationals or certain decendants of same. Not very sporting of them. : : You do renounce US citizenship, but NOT to a US consular official. You renounce before the Mexican Secretariat of Foreign Relations. The US State department works on a don't ask, don't tell basis at present, after being hard nosed about it and getting taken to court and losing to people who they stripped of nationality based on Mexican renouncements coming to their attention. If you aske a consular official their opinion, they will invariably discourage you from adopting a second nationality for a few pertinent reasons, but they will acknowledge that at present you can do it without their objection and maintain your US citizenship despite the unAmerican and unpleseant statements to the Mexican Secretariat.: : Regarding the sharing of information, you should assume the US will get the info, but as Jim in Cancun implied, it is not likely it will be because Mexico shared it. The State Department really has its hands tied these days. Just look at the case of the American (Arab lineage) Taliban born in Lousiana. If they haven't stripped him of his nationality, it would be an insult if they could get you. The only qualifier here is that in your nice long lifetime, the interpretation of the words "intent" and preponderance of evidence" with regard to your renouncing could be reinterpreted in the future and cause you some degree of headache under the wrong conditions. There is no law on the books to guarantee your double nationality at 100%. And do keep in mind, in Mexico, on assuming the Mexican nationality, in Mexican territory you do abandon your ability to run to the US consulate if you get in a predicament, you must use your Mexican passport to visit all countries other than the US, you must deal with two tax authorities as if you were not dual nationaled, and wills become somewhat more challenging.: : The thread 11 down has links to the State Department in one of my posts which should give you more confidence in our answers, in addition to other sundry stuff.: : Best...David(MTY): : : I have read/heard conflicting reports about renouncing with regard to obtaining Mexican citizenship (not of Mexican lineage). Does one have to renounce U.S. citizenship in the presence of a U.S consular official? If not,does Mexico share this information (renouncing)with the U.S.? Also,please reference your replies with official (Mexican or U.S.)site documentation.

DavidMTY

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #5 of 13 (5259 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

::Brevity and clarity seems not to be your forte.I usually prefer pianissimo.::The bottom line is that the US permits dual citizenship, and since recently so does Mexico.Thanks for the info.::Hence the delightful posting of the little boy born in Mexico of US parents, who enjoys dual citizenship.My responses are for Mexicans by naturalization; the lucky superboy is Mexican by birth. ::I hope you don’t find tolerance and open mindedness un-American as well. TEW.How fatuous.

DavidMTY

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #6 of 13 (5264 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

Hi Dave,The Secretariat of Foreign Relations (SRE) in Mexico will process the naturalization asking you to sign a photocopy statement upon giving your your Letter of Naturalization. I don't know of any web sites going into the details, much less official ones, so I will simply refer you to the Law of Nationality and Naturalization in vigor, Articles 17 & 19. Read 19 first, and then reference 17 as it requires. The SRE simply is following the procedure for naturalization by the authority vested in it, covered in these two articles where your point of interest is.
ARTICULO 19.- The foreigner who attempts to naturalize as Mexican must: I. Present an application to the SRE in which he manifests his will to acquire the Mexican nationality; II. Present to the SRE the renouncements and oath as referered to in article 17 of this act; The SRE is not able to require that the renouncements and oath until after it has taken the decision to grant nationality to the applicant. The letter of naturalization will be granted once these (renouncements and oath) have been verified. ARTICULO 17.- Mexicans by birth which another country can consider as their nationals, are able to solicit from the SRE a Certificate of Mexican Nationality, only for effects of article 16. The procedure is to prepare a specific renouncement of the nationality which is attributed to them, completely (renouncing) submission, obedience and fidelity, to any foreign country, especially the one which is attributed to their other nationality, to all protection not included in Mexican law and authority, and to all rights that treaties and agreements concede to foreigners. As well, they will take an oath of adhesion, obedience and submission to Mexican laws and authority and they will abstain from realizing any conduct that implies submission to a foreign countryHope you find this helpful! David(MTY)
: :David, thanks. Could you provide an official site or documentation that confirms this? If renunciation is not preformed in the presence of a U.S. official i'm not worried about it. I have read the Supreme Court decisions. : :I'm sure you're aware that the following poster is incorrect. Mexico only recognizes dual citizenship of IT'S nationals or certain decendants of same. Not very sporting of them. : : You do renounce US citizenship, but NOT to a US consular official. You renounce before the Mexican Secretariat of Foreign Relations. The US State department works on a don't ask, don't tell basis at present, after being hard nosed about it and getting taken to court and losing to people who they stripped of nationality based on Mexican renouncements coming to their attention. If you aske a consular official their opinion, they will invariably discourage you from adopting a second nationality for a few pertinent reasons, but they will acknowledge that at present you can do it without their objection and maintain your US citizenship despite the unAmerican and unpleseant statements to the Mexican Secretariat.: : Regarding the sharing of information, you should assume the US will get the info, but as Jim in Cancun implied, it is not likely it will be because Mexico shared it. The State Department really has its hands tied these days. Just look at the case of the American (Arab lineage) Taliban born in Lousiana. If they haven't stripped him of his nationality, it would be an insult if they could get you. The only qualifier here is that in your nice long lifetime, the interpretation of the words "intent" and preponderance of evidence" with regard to your renouncing could be reinterpreted in the future and cause you some degree of headache under the wrong conditions. There is no law on the books to guarantee your double nationality at 100%. And do keep in mind, in Mexico, on assuming the Mexican nationality, in Mexican territory you do abandon your ability to run to the US consulate if you get in a predicament, you must use your Mexican passport to visit all countries other than the US, you must deal with two tax a

tew

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #7 of 13 (5261 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

Brevity and clarity seems not to be your forte. The bottom line is that the US permits dual citizenship, and since recently so does Mexico. Hence the delightful posting of the little boy born in Mexico of US parents, who enjoys dual citizenship. I hope you don’t find tolerance and open mindedness un-American as well. TEW.

Jim en Cancun

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #8 of 13 (5262 views)

Shortcut

no and no and you can't prove a negative but ...

Can't Post |

DavidMTY

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #9 of 13 (5260 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

tew

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #10 of 13 (5260 views)

Shortcut

Mexican citizenship requirements

Can't Post |

It seems we agree: both the US and Mexico permit dual citizenship. Children born in Mexico to a US citizen or citizens have the right to dual citizenship. And that was the only point I was trying to make. Thanks for a brief reply. And thanks for not questioning my “lineage”. TEW.

Jim in Cancun

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #11 of 13 (5258 views)

Shortcut

I will keep an eye out for...

Can't Post |

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #12 of 13 (5258 views)

Shortcut

no and no and you can't prove a negative but ...

Can't Post |

Jim en Cancun

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #13 of 13 (5258 views)

Shortcut

And there is more information if...

Can't Post |