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Bill_N

Mar 11, 2003, 2:36 AM

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Experiences Learning Spanish

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Hola a todos,

I am curious if people on this forum would share their experiences and approaches to learning Spanish. I am directing my question primarily to those who already live in Mexico. Do you find that simply living in Mexico and hearing Spanish spoken all around you everyday leads to understanding and eventual ability to speak Spanish at some level? Or Have you found it necessary to take formal instruction? I am sure, probably, the combination works best but I am just curious if people would share some of their own experiences and approaches. My wife and I are considering retirement in Mexico. Neither of us really speak Spanish except for a few phrases.

If we chose to retire in Mexico we would want to understand and speak Spanish. But we are wondering how difficult it may be to learn. My son moved to Germany because he was stationed there during his Army stint. He now lives in Germany permanently and I have been quite amazed that he has acquired rather fluent German. I think he only took one formal class in German and really didn't like it. He is married to a German woman and lives with her family but he was "picking up German" before he got married and entered into this living arrangement. I am sure this experience has greatly affected his fluency but it seems the rudiments of the language were picked up sort of "naturally on the street" so to speak.

Any comments?

Regards,

Bill Newell

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jerezano

Mar 11, 2003, 7:03 AM

Post #2 of 9 (3110 views)

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Re: [Bill_N] Experiences Learning Spanish

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Hello Bill,

I hope you get lots of replies so I can read them and profit from them as much as you two will. Anyway, let me start off with my own experiences and opinions:

I took Spanish lessons through the Seventh Day Adventist school in Matamoros, Mexico for Level one and Level two. (Three month courses of one day a week). During that time I met a couple English students and arranged to have lunch with them after classes. We would lunch for two hours; One hour would be in Spanish, the other in English. I learned more from the students than in class, but I needed the classes to give me the base and confidence to talk with the students. Worked like a charm.

I dropped the classes but continued the lunch meetings for a year. Then I moved to Mexico. I have lived here fourteen years now. For the first three years I would take a week vacation to San Miguel Allende, Guadalajara, or other location and take a one-on-one Spanish class while living in a home stay program. Helped immeasurably. Lots of fun and learned a lot.

Interesting point however: My old lunch mate from Matamoros visited me about year ten here in Mexico and had the bright perception to tell me that my Spanish had deteriorated. That while studying there in Matamoros with the 7th Day Adventists and lunching with him and his companion that my SPANISH WAS BETTER THEN THAN NOW. I used the caps for emphasis. And I know that he was right.

Through the daily living and speaking I have acquired all kinds of bad habits with both my grammar and my pronunciation.

My own conclusion is: Picking up Sanish from your companions is easy, enjoyable, and very practical. Nevertheless, formal instruction is really necessary if one wants to become fluent and if that fluency is to demonstrate the beauty of the Spanish language. And that formal instruction is readily obtainable at reasonable cost almost anywhere in Mexico. But that reminds me, I must get off my duff and sign up for some refresher courses. Adios. Jerezano.

Bill_N

Mar 11, 2003, 10:21 AM

Post #3 of 9 (3075 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Experiences Learning Spanish

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I learned American Sign Language by the "sink or swim" method... No formal instruction and I agree with your observation that because you learn from peers and friends they are more interested in communicating than in the form of language and so a person is likely to pick up "bad habits" so to speak. Although there is always tension I think between the "language purists" and the "the community of users" who will bend and break all rules in the name of communication.

But your points are well taken and I do plan to engage in some formal instruction before my first trip to Mexico.

Muchas gracias,

Bill Newell

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Musicman

Mar 15, 2003, 7:59 PM

Post #4 of 9 (2995 views)

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Re: [Bill_N] Experiences Learning Spanish

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Hola Bill. When I moved to Mexico 21 months ago I spoke no Spanish. After taking four beginner lessons that basically covered the Spanish alphabet with heavy emphasis on the importance of pronouncing vowels correctly, I took about six private lessons. Obviously the private lessons helped but even more beneficial was surrounding myself with Mexican friends who happened to be caddies at the local golf course. About once a month I host a party and invite them, and their families, to my home. My Spanish has improved greatly and I have established some wonderful friends. Also, thanks for sharing the "Word of the Day" link. I have bookmarked it and will check it daily. Buena suerte.

jturpen

Mar 16, 2003, 8:27 AM

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Re: [Bill_N] Experiences Learning Spanish

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Hola Bill ...

I did read your post ... " my question primarily to those who already live in Mexico " ... although not living there I thought this might help you. I studied Spanish in high school many yeras ago and remember just a little of the verb conjugation rules. I do remember the curse words taught me by my Mexican friends.
I recently started an "immersions" pedagogy style conversational Spanish class and have found that to be by far the best method of retaining all the words and rules.
If you are able to find a language center that uses this technique I would rushed to it.

Joe

DavidMcL

Mar 16, 2003, 10:25 AM

Post #6 of 9 (2978 views)

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Re: [jturpen] Experiences Learning Spanish

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I agree with you.
If you are wanting to truly become fluent, then immersion, a serious relationship with a speaker of the language, and/or no English speakers in your community are very important. Twice weekly 1 to 1.5 hour lessons will get you started, but you won't become "at ease" with the language.

Before moving to Mexico permanently, I undertook a 6 week immersion program offered during the summer at the University of Regina Language program.

By the end I was pretty comfortable with the extent of what I had learned - formal structures, a beginning of that "brain washing" that immersion is so good for, and the beginnings of not translating everything into English in order to understand.

Highly recommended approach.

Warning for those over 30.

1. As this was a double credit summer program, 95% of the students were 22 or under. (guess who the 5% was.) This can really test your self image as these kids were learning at a fast clip, partying every night, and were bright and cheerful the next morning - well usually) Me? I went home and did my 4 hours of homework and was exhausted the next morning. But I certainly remembered how to learn!

2. Potential for brain damage. At my age (then 47) it had been a while since I had to learn so much, and so much rote stuff (conjugations, exceptions etc.) About 3 weeks into the program my brain began to rebel and I went through a real confusion period. Nothing made sense for a while. - High potential to drop out at this point. BUT, this is a necessary phase as it is during this that you are beginning to let go your resistance and to move towards integration of the very different ways of this gorgeous language.

3. Learn to forget "Why?", As an adult there is a real temptation to try to equate spanish words and structures to what you already know - mental mapping I think it is called. Forget it. First it really retards you becoming comfortable with not having to translate. And 2, it doesn't work! "Because" is a frequent response to that deadly question.

After having said all the above, just taking the immersion is not enough. You must, at every opportunity, practice, practice, practice. Insist on speaking Spanish. Ask for help, ask for feedback. Be willing to be the source of great humour. My most embarrassing moment was in a restaurant, asking for half a bollio (una mitad) by saying una metida - and no, you won't find the street meaning of that in the dictionary, and be careful who you ask! The entire restaurant went silent and then burst into uproarious laughter. Benefit to me? I won't make that mistake again and I learned an expression that I would never have learned in a class.

I strongly recommend that you go through a series of heavy duty small group classes at a level that challenges you. By series I mean for 6 months every two years. You will lose what you know - grammatically and structurally, if you don't.

Listen to Mexican radio. Watch Mexican TV. Male news announcers are easier to follow than female news anchors - who speak so quickly! Go to the movies that are not dubbed or subtitled - twice! Once for the concentrated effort to understand and once to enjoy the whole thing.

Whatever you do, enjoy doing it and you will be surprised at how much and how quickly you pick things up.

Am I fluent? Nope. I work all day in English. Besides I have accepted the fact that unless I had been raised in the language and culture, I will never really be 100% confident and have full understanding. But it certainly is fun to keep trying to get there!

David
David McL
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Bill_N

Mar 16, 2003, 11:49 AM

Post #7 of 9 (2969 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] Experiences Learning Spanish

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To Joe & David,

Thanks so much for your insights into your own learning experiences. I agree that a "total immersion" method works best. That was one of the reasons for me putting my question to "those forum readers who already live in Mexico". It would seem hard to avoid Spanish if one lives in the country 24/7.

It seems reasonable also that formal instruction helps build a "survival foundation" upon which to build through actual contact with native speakers and practice, practice, practice.

Living in the US, for now, I am struck by the number of immigrants from all parts of the world who seem to learn English either to a "practical level" or a very "fluent level". And they seem to do this with very little formal instruction. So I am trying to understand the process by which this happens.

I will relate my personal experience with three trips to Germany and no formal instruction. First of all I can't speak or understand German beyond a very rudimentary level at this point. But what I noticed about my experience spending three two-week periods of time in Germany and staying in a German speaking home is this.

First trip - my head was spinning, I was sort of anxious and disoriented by the sound of German all around me and the sight of German on street signs etc. It was very disorienting and I felt I couldn't really "hear" it if you know what I mean. It was all just a jumble of sounds.

Second trip - I was much more comfortable with driving and seeing German words and understanding their meaning. Grocery stores, food items, street signs, etc. Sort of "environmental German" I would call it. And I began to "hear" the words and phrases but it seemed like I understood the few phrases that I did, several beats too late. It was like I heard it and it took a longer time to process it and then suddenly a few seconds after whatever was said to me and the opportunity to respond had passed, it occurred to me, "Oh yeah I knew that!" Of course, it was too late to respond in German or even look anything other than thoroughly confused. I don't know if others have this same experience, but it seemed to me like my brain was starting to "sort out the sound system" and I could start to actually pick out words that I recognized.

The third time, I could actually say a few things and understand when someone said certain very basic survival phrases to me. When others were talking amongst themselves I could pick out certain words, phrases and sentences and I knew what they meant even sometimes, I guess because the situation was so context heavy, I could understand what they were talking about. But naturally I still couldn't participate. I think this follows the principle of "reception/understanding of the language" preceding expression of the language.

Anyway, I just wonder if others who have been immersed in a culture and language have a similar experience and whether it eventually leads to some utility in the language.

I will begin an evening course in Beginning Spanish and I will have a native speaker of Spanish from Colombia at work who I can "go practice on". So we shall see.

Thanks all for your comments thus far and I hope to hear from others on this thread.

Regards,

Bill

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ilania

Mar 18, 2003, 10:01 AM

Post #8 of 9 (2946 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] Experiences Learning Spanish

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Thanks. Immersion worked for me at age 31 in Italy - just lived there for a few months. Went to school took phoenetic shorthand notes, typed them out and somehow learnt and passed the exam with flying colours. I guess one has to have guts to speak with a limited vocabulary. Ilania

Guest k.brown@gwccnet.com

May 27, 2004, 1:40 PM

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Re: [Bill_N] Experiences Learning Spanish

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I am currently dating a native from Mexico who only speaks Spanish. I took two years of Spanish in high school and can honestly say I never learned anything!
Within the past year I've been completely dependent on a Spanish dictionary and a very patient boyfriend.
I found it very encouraging a few weeks ago when I walked into a Spanish speaking store in my community and was able to speak fluently with the cashier. What a wonderful feeling!
It's been a very interesting and sometimes difficult path, but knowing that I could survive is all the more encouraging now.
Immersion in the language and being able to laugh at your mistakes makes learning Spanish or any other language for that matter, very enjoyable!