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jonv

Jan 15, 2003, 6:16 PM

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Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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I've read many tourist books that mention that the lake is still polluted, but they were written several years ago .

What is the condition of the lake at the present? Is it still too polluted to swim?
What is the prognosis?

I'll be down on 18 Jan. I've got a place at 16 de septiembre.

Let me know about the lake.

Gracias, Jon



lmaxine

Jan 15, 2003, 8:37 PM

Post #2 of 77 (6182 views)

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Re: [jonvedder] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Lake is polluted. Can't swim there. Sorry.


Jeannie


Jan 16, 2003, 5:36 AM

Post #3 of 77 (6152 views)

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Re: [lmaxine] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Polluted yes.

Dying also. 79% of the lake is gone.

During the end of the dry season you can practically walk out to scorpion island with a pair of tall rubber boots.

If coming make sure you get Hep A and typhoid shots as we had an outbreak this year of both.


Steve

Jan 16, 2003, 6:34 AM

Post #4 of 77 (6106 views)

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Re: [Jeannie] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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I don't know where you get your "facts" from. Poluted - who knows. I do know that people swim in the lake and fish in it and that people eat the fish that are caught in the lake.
I just looked out the window to check on the 79& of the lake is gone --- and there is a lake there, a big lake - and the water is pretty high. In fact, higher than I have seen it over the past five years. Even the low water docks are way past the edge of the water.
I also don't know anybody who had either Hep A or typhoid. Perhaps the socialized medicine of Canada has clouded my vision!


juraj1

Jan 16, 2003, 7:55 AM

Post #5 of 77 (6081 views)

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Re: [Steve] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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This year the lake is going to get itīs larger transfer (trasbase) ever, 280,000 Mm3 from the different rivers, so the lake is not dying, we are all interested in itīs life, ans seems that finally the goverment is doing something about it.

About the pollution, my brothers and their friends go windsurfing and skiing almost every weekend, without consecuences, my dog loves to swim in the lake, eventought during this season is pretty cold.

They are more than 5,000 fisherman in the whole lakeside, and they depend 100% from what they fish in the lake. You couldnīt get that from a diying lake.


Jeannie


Jan 16, 2003, 8:31 AM

Post #6 of 77 (6077 views)

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Re: [Steve] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Dr. Gil Silverman wrote in the Lake Chapala Society newsletter about the Hep A outbreak and so far to date I know of 15 people who have had typhoid. It's just a fact of life here that if you spend a lot of time eating out, and since this person will be a visitor I expect they will eat out a lot, that it's a good precaution to get the Hep AB shot and the typhoid shot.

Are you recommending that they don't?

At this point the lake is still dying. That's a fact and it was recognized internationally by the Living Lakes organization. They don't take on lakes that are doing fine, they take on lakes that are in a crisis situation.

As for polluted. Just ask Amigos del Lago about the pollution in the lake including heavy metals as well as DDT.

In 1975 the lake looked like this:



and now it looks like this in 2002





So let's not try and tell people the lake is not in trouble. The more aware people are about it, the sooner a solution will be found.

Are you saying the lake is not in trouble?


juraj1

Jan 16, 2003, 10:18 AM

Post #7 of 77 (6022 views)

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Re: [Jeannie] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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"This year the lake is going to get itīs larger transfer (trasbase) ever, 280,000 Mm3 from the different rivers, so the lake is not dying, we are all interested in itīs life, ans seems that finally the goverment is doing something about it."

Who is saying that the lake is not in trouble?

Iīm just informing people about the REAL numbers of the future of the lake! This is going to happen THIS year. there is a big concern about the lake.

As you most heard from Amigos del lagos this figures are part of the agreement for the "trasbase", las november in the "Estado de Mexico", Were Amigos del Lagoīs president Mrs. Michel was. As you can see Iīm in touch with amigos del lago... and with reality.

"So let's not try and tell people the lake is not in trouble." So who tryed that..

About polution, Iīm talking about a FAMILY EXPERIECE... thatīs it! probably nothing happen to us becuase we are "mexicans" right?


Jeannie


Jan 16, 2003, 12:18 PM

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Re: [juraj1] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Jura my reply was to Steve, not you. If you look above it shows I was replying to Steve.


(This post was edited by Jeannie on Jan 16, 2003, 12:20 PM)


pedro naco

Jan 16, 2003, 3:00 PM

Post #9 of 77 (5956 views)

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Re: [Jeannie] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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it doesn't matter who you are replying to-you just regailed us with your eronious lake nonsense for the umteenth time.

jura made some positive and more realistic comments about the lake-cudos to him!

when i was staying at the chapala inn i looked out every day at-first a prairie complete with cattle grazing-then the slough/lake and the mountains-what an incredible picture for a western guy!

bonus is the slough/lake has at least 3 kinds of fish in it-YUM!

and my dogs can swim for those ducks i whack when i hunt there.


Jeannie


Jan 16, 2003, 3:17 PM

Post #10 of 77 (5940 views)

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Re: [pedro] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Just what part was erronious? Seriously, I think a two week visitor to the area should explain just what part was erronious. I am sure the original poster and I would love to know what mis-information was in my original post.

Do pictures lie? or should we give them the thousand words they deserve.

If you want to eat fish with heavy metals, mercury and ddt, be my guest. It just means you will spend less time with us in the long run :)

I do feel sorry for the dog though!

As for ducks, you do know about the poaching laws here right? (This one I am not kidding about) :)


(This post was edited by Jeannie on Jan 16, 2003, 3:22 PM)


pedro naco

Jan 16, 2003, 3:51 PM

Post #11 of 77 (5904 views)

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Re: [Jeannie] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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it's still a big slough/lake-i can now say i saw it-didn't take me 2 wks just one glance-i'm a quick study-lol.

when i whack ducks i will get a hunting licence-the only thing i ever poached were eggs.

the dog and i will both love it-i might swim there too if its warm enough-she and i have swallowed far worse.

and you obviously have not recalled our conversation when you joined us at the table in front of the superior grill-let me remind you again you and i ate stuff with all that junk in it in good old ontariario for many moons and we're still here ain't we?

well i am anyway!

i like to look at things in a positive light and i believe most people on here do too-enough already with the horrors(gasp) about the big slough called chapala.


(This post was edited by pedro on Jan 16, 2003, 3:54 PM)


Jeannie


Jan 16, 2003, 4:31 PM

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Re: [pedro] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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You still failed to answer my questions.

You said I made erronious statements. What was erronious.

Let's also try and remember what the original poster's questions was and not try and turn this into another Pedro rant.


pedro naco

Jan 16, 2003, 5:01 PM

Post #13 of 77 (5854 views)

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Re: [Jeannie] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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i think i answered him very well by saying how i plan on ENJOYING the lake!

as to erronious-how about dead .disaster ,disease and all the other"d's" you keep harping on about this great slough?

last time i looked i am not the one who is ranting.

damn look what you've done you made me get semi -personal-slap me with a wet noddle -you can moisten it in the slough.


Gone away

Jan 16, 2003, 9:47 PM

Post #14 of 77 (5844 views)

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Re: [jonvedder] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Regardless of anything else in this part of the postings, the Lake is not fit for swimming in..PERIOD.

If you want to go for a swim in Chapala or Lakeside, go to the MONTE CARLO hotel and pay to use their pool or drive or take a bus to San Juan Cosola to the Thermal pools to swim in.

I live in Ontario and people say Lake Ontario is not fit to swim in, well I do since it is far more inviting than Lago Chapala is, unfortunately.

Right now I am here for 4 months and I love the Lakeside area, but look at the lake from a distance, since that's all you can do. In one day if you are lucky you might see one fishing boat out there, and that is a one man ROWBOAT not what you might expect in commercial fishing and absolutely no pleasure boats of any kind. The Lake is in bad need of repair and that's a fact.


(This post was edited by RM on Jan 16, 2003, 9:54 PM)


pedro naco

Jan 17, 2003, 5:45 AM

Post #15 of 77 (5803 views)

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Re: [RM] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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aw come, on enough already with foreigner rantings about the horrors of the lake.

i said it before and i'll say it again-your motives are somewhat less than altruistic when it comes to the grand slough-more to do with real estate values and esthetics.

seems like most of the locals have fared very well with what exhists now.

in chapala where the slope from the old shoreline to the present one is very gradual and flat one sees a lush prairie with cattle and horses grazing-an oval running track which is used everyday-a soccer field -a baseball field an atv track-horse rentals-not to mention a great spot for night time bush parties for the younger set.

further west in the ajijic, el chante and jocotapec area where the slope is more severe and the lake has not receded as much visually-i saw the locals with numerous market gardens, lush with veggies etc.

now i can't speak for the south or east end of the lake because i never saw it personally-but i would assume its used in similar fashion.

when i was there i found all kinds of things i could do to keep me busy positively-it's to bad a lot of you lake worriers haven't done the same but i guess some people thrive on negativity especially when they get reaaaalllly old actually or sometimes just mentally.


Jeannie


Jan 17, 2003, 6:10 AM

Post #16 of 77 (5795 views)

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Re: [pedro] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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As an outsider you do not see the big picture. More than 60% of the people who joined Amigos Del Lago are Mexican. Even President Fox realizes the impact of Mexico's largest fresh water lake disappearing will have on the Mexican communities surrounding the lake.

It's easy enough for you to sit there after a meager two week visit and spout off, but for the Mexicans of this area the economic impact is well realized.

Actually some of us wish you would write with an informed opinion, backed up by facts and not just your usual verbal diarrhea in order to see your words in print.

Most of us would have a lot more respect for you if you would speak with an informed opinion. While you were here, just what research did you do to back up your statements?


pedro naco

Jan 17, 2003, 7:10 AM

Post #17 of 77 (5766 views)

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Re: [Jeannie] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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who are the "us", does more than one entity reside in your body? why do you question my methodology when i have explained it in my posts-i think my statements are simple enough to be comprehended by most people even slightly familiar with the english language.

other than my personal observations-i spoke to positive solution oriented people when i was there-not to people who thrive on wallowing in negativity.

the disciplines i practiced in a past life made me a quick study which corporations and governments happily paid me big bucks for.

soon you will be in white rock b.c. no doubt finding new windmills to tilt at-watch out gary-genie in bottle soon to be playing in a theatre in your neighbourhood.

by the way why do you find it necessary to hide while lurking on these forums.


juraj1

Jan 17, 2003, 8:03 AM

Post #18 of 77 (5749 views)

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Re: [RM] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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The figures are this: They are 847 families that live from fishing in lake Chapala, those are the fisherman REGISTRATED in the "Union de Pescadores del Lago de Chapala", and they are from the states of Jalisco and Michoacan, probably if you look out only from your window you wonīt see them... but they are there, probably you donīt remember but last year Amigos del Lago made a contribution of 25 lifesavers for the fisherman of San Juan Tecomatlan. So you canīt tell they are not fisherman in Chapala, if you want to confirm this you can go to the "capitania de Puerto" right in front of theentrance of Cristiania Park in Chapala.What do they Fish? The following species: Tilapia, Carpa, Catfish and Charal, by the way they are 2 species of Charal that you can only find in Lake Chapala.

About swiming? Why donīt you go on a sunday to a place called "Piedra barrenada" it is jus before San Juan Cosala, they ae a lot of little seafood restaurants, and you will see the beach so crowded that you wonīt belive it...And in my opinion all that people doesnīt seam poissned to me...

Letīs all be reallistic and this ae the FACTS... you can confirm them.


Gary sculptari

Jan 17, 2003, 9:23 AM

Post #19 of 77 (5754 views)

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Re: [pedro] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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I hope Jeannie doesn't expect to go swimming in White Rock - thats the Pacific Ocean and it is horribly polluted, the water tastes like someone peed in it, I wish they would clean it up.


pedro naco

Jan 17, 2003, 10:01 AM

Post #20 of 77 (5707 views)

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Re: [juraj1] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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great post juraj1-that's telling all those naysayers once and for all i hope!

can you tell us more about the charal-how big is is what does it look like etc.


juraj1

Jan 17, 2003, 10:51 AM

Post #21 of 77 (5694 views)

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Re: [pedro] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Thanks Pedro!!!

The Charal is the most representative fish of the lake, it is a tany little fish (about 2 inches) , and you can find it all over, it comes already fried and driyed, and it has the "chile" varaety...How to enjoy them? you go to the Chapala Malecon, you buy a plate, you put the lemon on it and "salsa de chile", you sit down and enjoy the view!!!! also youcan buy them by "kilo" and enjoy them at your place or with friends!!! Iīve just try them with lemon and chile vut I bet youcan invent lots of dishes usind this little and tastefull fish.....


Bucky

Jan 17, 2003, 12:05 PM

Post #22 of 77 (5704 views)

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Re: [juraj1] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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Now here's another wonderful piece of information. There may be lots of people who are aware of this Charal information and the fact that 2 species of it are only found in Lake Chapala but I wonder how many environmentalists are. If they can be enlisted in support of the lake from the perspective that a species will become extinct if it dries up, then more supports are available.

I know in the US and Canada the tree huggers can be quite a political force. Anyone contact the Sierra Club, National Geographic, PETA? While some of that is meant with tongue in cheek, I am also serious about enlisting aide where you can.

Are Charal anything like sardines? Eat 'em bones and all?


LJ

Jan 17, 2003, 12:26 PM

Post #23 of 77 (5680 views)

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Where is Jim B when we need him? nfmsg

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juraj1

Jan 17, 2003, 2:25 PM

Post #24 of 77 (5651 views)

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Re: [Bucky] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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They are much more smaller than sarndines, and yes you eat them all, with the bones etc.. but they are so tiny.. it doesnīt really matter, they are like driyed shrimps.

About the organizations, contact amigos del lago and tey will help you for sure..


donald

Jan 17, 2003, 3:43 PM

Post #25 of 77 (5662 views)

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Re: [juraj1] Condition of Laguna de Chapala

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I have only been here a short time, but in this time have researched the subject as best I could.

I believe that this subject should be open to serious discussion as public awareness about the lake will bring an expedited action.

I feel that Jeannie made simple statements of fact, provided proof and answered the gentleman's question, that was originally asked.

I am not sure what Pedro is trying to accomplish with his continual haranguing of people, but I am sure any intelligent person will see it for what it is.

Others also contributed facts that were both positive and negative. Jeannie's facts simply stated the condition the lake is currently in. Jura's stated progress that is being made.

Why one feels they have to denigrate someone because of facts is beyond me, but I believe a lot of what Pedro says is simply done to cause trouble and get people arguing and the focus always seems to switch to him and not the original posters question.

I have met Aurora Michel, the former president and discussed the issue with her in length. I have also met Jeannie and so far I have not seen her state any incorrect facts and I imagine few here know that she contributes her time and effort to designing the Amigos Del Lago website and will be continuing with this project even after her departure. To me that is someone who puts their money where there mouth is.

Pedro, you are planning to move to this area. Do you have any plans to help try and save Mexico's largest resource? You seem to not want open discussion, but only your rules of discussion and your belittling of people does you a great disservice.

That's not news, but then that to is reality.
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