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RuralPuebla

Aug 29, 2016, 6:50 PM

Post #26 of 38 (3312 views)

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Re: [playaboy] importing a car, yet again!

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This may be correct, but I don't think so.


Gatos

Aug 30, 2016, 4:34 AM

Post #27 of 38 (3291 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] importing a car, yet again!

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I agree with you.

But if it were to be true - I guess that makes moot the question of how long the exportation process takes at the US border. Except for those heading into Latin America perhaps.

I'll repeat my advice from yesterday - if you are reading this thread for advice in the future perhaps you owe it to yourself to call Aduana DF and get your info from the horse's mouth.

Finally - I'll offer this free advice. If you think you 'might' want to get Mexican plates (import) your car (even if it is impossible to do so) - and if you are coming from a State with no auto inspections - consider getting your car inspected in Texas as you pass through. That will save you from a 'chicken and egg' situation later - where the inspection station won't inspect your car in Mexico because it does not have Mexican plates, and you need an inspection to get plates....


YucaLandia


Aug 30, 2016, 8:24 AM

Post #28 of 38 (3266 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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So then - if a person (regardless of their residency status) were to have visited Aduana to import a US car (one which they were the sole owner of from the factory) and received a valid pedimento and subsequently valid plates/registration from their (Mexican) home state - would you assume that Mexico had no US export related concerns - OR - today as part of the nationalization process is there a step which explicitly requires US exportation ? There have to be a ton of (non-stolen, formerly) US cars driving through the streets of Mexico - which have never been formerly exported from the US.


Prior to Sept. 2014, Aduana did not check to see if American-titled vehicles had been legally exported from the US.

As a part of a US-CBP + Aduana effort to stop auto theft gangs from moving stolen cars across the border, Aduana cracked down on a number of dubious amparos - arresting the judge(s) who issued them, cancelled the amparos, jailed a number of Mexican customs brokers & 'facilitators' (who worked with Sonia), and jailed Aduana agents who also helped facilitate the prior years of illegal auto permanent imports under those amparos. Sonia herself reported that the Aduana office processing her special amparo auto-import deals had all of her records seized and put on lock-down.

That's how Sonia got some gringo cars caught in the web of prosecutions ... with no plates, no pedimentos, and no refunds for over a year, according to Sonia's Facebook page.

Because the car theft gangs found that when they moved a car into Mexico in just a day after being stolen, (permanently imported under Sonia's et al's prior amparo), they realized that the Mexican & US police databases of stolen cars were not being updated for 2-3 days - giving the thieves a window of time to use the amparo, without the stolen cars showing up in police databases.

The US CBP put pressure on Aduana to close this loophole. In Sept 2014 Aduana responded by implementing a NEW requirement that EVERY American-titled vehicle have it's US title clearly stamped as 'CANCELLED' by CBP.

Since CBP rules since 1994 required that American-titled vehicles be put 'on-hold' for 72 hrs, to check US police databases for the legal status of the vehicle ... when Aduana adopted the rule to have every US-titled vehicle have its title stamped 'cancelled' before being allowed to be processed for permanent import into Mexico... that basically closed the car-thieves loophole.

Note that US CBP issued a formal technical ruling in 2015 that a US-titled vehicle taken out of the USA for more than 6 continuous months, should be formally exported. We know of no examples of enforcement of this rule in the meantime ... but know that the Federal Law on this provides for a minimum of $500 in fines and being convicted of a Federal Felony if caught.

Since Sonia's latest process does not require following either the US CBP laws on the 72 hr check ... and Sonia's process ignores US CPB law on exporting US-titled vehicles ... and since Sonia's process does not follow Mexican law...

it leaves people taking their US-titled vehicles into Mexico as pseudo-imports ... at risk of both US felony convictions ... and potentially having their cars seized, if yet her latest amparo gets cancelled.

Since there have been no reported prosecutions, I doubt that gringos using Sonia's 'UCD' (not USD) process are currently at risk....

... but just as there WAS NO WARNING of the prior 2014 failure of Sonia's prior amparo, and her gringo's 'no pedimento' vehicles were caught in the Mex. Gob. legal prosecutions web for over a year, there is no assurance of how long Sonia's current amparo will last.

Also note that Sonia's process opens the same loophole that cross-border auto-theft gangs used in the past (by ignoring the US legal CBP required export process) ... it seems to support potential auto thefts - triggering potential future government crackdowns - as happened to her in 2014 through 2015

Since the consequences can include
US Federal Felony prosecutions
and
vehicle seizures (with $1,000's in fines),

each person can decide for themselves about their own personal risk-tolerance levels.

Happy Trails,
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Aug 30, 2016, 8:27 AM)


Gatos

Aug 30, 2016, 9:29 AM

Post #29 of 38 (3258 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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Nice write-up. Perhaps you should consider putting together a wiki article for Sonia and her process :-)

Personally we have never had any interactions with Sonia, or an AMPARO for that matter. We imported our car prior to 2014 and used a very large customs broker, recommended by Aduana, who has perhaps 5 offices in Mexico and several in the US. I doubt Sonia gets many recommendations from Aduana.

Even prior to 2014 the import process was not trivial, and at the time we had our valid US title, registration, plates, driver's licenses etc. Aduana had our import paperwork for perhaps 1-2 weeks before asking us to come in to complete the process. Then we had to spend a day at Aduana while they verified the car's ownership, VIN. Our US title matched the names on our passports etc.I think they were pretty sure we were not smuggling a stolen vehicle. They took quite a few pictures. Finally they issued a pedimento. Ya know - they might have even stamped our US title - not sure.

When we returned home SAT and our local Transporte really scrutinized the pedimento etc. It took weeks (perhaps 4-6) to get them to allow us to get plates/registration. We were not alone. They sat on dozens of similar cases. As I remember it, I called the customs agent who worked with us (who really is a big deal in the Mexico import/export world) and he somehow broke the log jam.

When we received our Mexican plates I called the State DMV in the US, told them we were now living in Mexico and they canceled the plates.

I think it is a noble thing that the US and Mexico are trying to cut-down on stolen vehicles coming into Mexico. At the same time there have to be many vehicles which come in fresh every day. If they can successfully screen THOSE in close to real-time I think they should be commended. To expect them to somehow track down EVERY vehicle which has EVER left the US, 'legally' (albeit not exported) - that might be asking a lot.


RuralPuebla

Aug 30, 2016, 5:01 PM

Post #30 of 38 (3231 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] importing a car, yet again!

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Oops! My US car was in Mexico for almost all of 2015 and therefore technically I guess I was in violation of the six month rule. Which I never heard of until now.

I guess I did make the correct decision to buy a Mexican car when I did. Now my only concern is when I go back to McAllen if I have any problems with insurance or entrance into the USA.

I do not plan to drive Mexican plates north if I visit our old town. One gets illegally stopped as it is with Texas plates. If you had told me in th Sixties when I was in military "to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic" that in a few years it would not be safe to drive across the USA I would have called for the men with the butterfly nets.


RickS


Aug 30, 2016, 7:32 PM

Post #31 of 38 (3219 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] importing a car, yet again!

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"One gets illegally stopped as it is with Texas plates."

Would you expound on this?


bigriver

Aug 30, 2016, 9:04 PM

Post #32 of 38 (3211 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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As Yucalandia strongly implies, vehicle nationalization is much easier if one simply follows the rules. Over the years I have exported multiple vehicles into Mexico. I have always used a respected licensed broker in Nogales and never had any legal blowback. August of 2014 was my most recent. The process took maybe 3 hours and the new owner had documents in fist &state license plates within a matter of weeks. The process now is more expensive & engaged but still manageable.

In your previous post, why do you offer advice to people who might want to import and get Mexican plates “even if it is impossible to do so?” Inevitably I find when “importers’ try to short-circuit the system the repercussions eventually surface. I think Aduna DF will concur.

The “export” rule of Sept 2014 certainly does not eliminate import of unwanted vehicles; one only has to drive once across the frontera to so determine. It does significantly reduce the volume of stolen/salvage/polluting rides intended to be legal & nationalized at some juncture down the road.


YucaLandia


Aug 31, 2016, 10:34 AM

Post #33 of 38 (3170 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] importing a car, yet again!

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Oops!
My US car was in Mexico for almost all of 2015 and therefore technically I guess I was in violation of the six month rule. Which I never heard of until now.

I guess I did make the correct decision to buy a Mexican car when I did. Now my only concern is when I go back to McAllen if I have any problems with insurance or entrance into the USA.

I do not plan to drive Mexican plates north if I visit our old town. One gets illegally stopped as it is with Texas plates. If you had told me in the Sixties when I was in military "to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic" that in a few years it would not be safe to drive across the USA I would have called for the men with the butterfly nets.


I hesitated 3 times before writing about the US-CBP's technical decision that US-titled cars must be formally exported if they stay outside the USA for more than 180 consecutive days (6 months).

This technical decision:
~ Has not been published in the CBP law.

~ Is only a decision handed down by their internal technical experts.
and

~ There appears to be no automated mechanism in CBP for checking or tracking how long our vehicles are out of the USA.

~ There appears to be no CBP programs & no intent-desire to enforce this policy.

~ There are no reports we know of, that the 6 month policy has been enforced on anyone.

So... When a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it:
Does it make a sound?


We have lived with decades of US govt. laws & rules that go unenforced ... that this appears to be yet another US govt. rule that is just... window dressing... ?

Still, all it takes is just one over-excited eager-beaver Barney Fife to fish his one bullet out of his pocket, and to load his one bullet into his gun ... to trigger enforcement of the rule.

??

This is much akin to US-anians in Mexico on Tourist / Visitor's visas, who do not surrender their visa when they drive out.

There has been only one internet report in the last 10 years of a gringo being stopped & fined when they tried to re-enter Mexico the following time. ... By my memory, the gringo still had their old FMT card tucked into their passport when they re-entered - which triggered the INM agent to notice that they had not appropriately surrendered that old FMT-Tourist visa when they drove out of Mexico.

Unlikely... but unpleasant when it happens.

??
Happy Trails,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Aug 31, 2016, 10:36 AM)


RuralPuebla

Aug 31, 2016, 4:14 PM

Post #34 of 38 (3143 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] importing a car, yet again!

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I certainly believe you. And, in my case since the old car is not coming back to Mexico, unless Mexico complies with the Treaty, it is a moot point. I just found it interesting that I apparently was not in compliance with a law I was unaware of.

Let me point out my personal theory that if one person in the whole country is fined for such a violation, it will be me. Heh, heh.

Some years ago, my best friend admitted that he used to be irked because I was always planning for bad things "that never happen to anyone."

Eventually he noticed that things were happening to me "that never happen to anyone" and I was ready for it already.

Later, he told me he was happy to be the only person he knew who had a friend who had a contingency plan in case an asteroid strikes the earth. And, I do. It is hard to surprise me. Possible, but hard.


RuralPuebla

Aug 31, 2016, 4:22 PM

Post #35 of 38 (3142 views)

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Re: [RickS] importing a car, yet again!

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"One gets illegally stopped as it is with Texas plates."

Would you expound on this?



RuralPuebla

Aug 31, 2016, 4:24 PM

Post #36 of 38 (3138 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] importing a car, yet again!

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I tried to expound as requested, but when I use quote, it deletes my message and only displays the quote. I do not feel like typing again. Summary: the cops in the US are worse bandits than in Mexico.


YucaLandia


Sep 2, 2016, 9:05 AM

Post #37 of 38 (3087 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] importing a car, yet again!

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I certainly believe you. And, in my case since the old car is not coming back to Mexico, unless Mexico complies with the Treaty, it is a moot point. I just found it interesting that I apparently was not in compliance with a law I was unaware of. ...


I made a minor factual error in my posts above about CBP Washington DC's technical ruling being '6' months outside of the USA.

A friend reminded me of a good past Mexconnect post that reported the precise language - and sections of the US CFR.

http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=204536;search_string=carla;#204536

The actual period is 12 months.

As moderators edit our posts: Could a moderator go into my posts above, and edit them to show the 12 month requirement for formally exporting US titled vehicles. Please include a note that the editor modified the 2 posts with the original author's permission.

THANKS!
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


RuralPuebla

Sep 2, 2016, 9:29 AM

Post #38 of 38 (3084 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] importing a car, yet again!

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Oh, goodie No violation on my part, noticed or not. Thanks for update.
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