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Moisheh

Aug 27, 2016, 12:31 PM

Post #1 of 38 (5126 views)

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importing a car, yet again!

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http://www.soniadiaz.mx/nationalizing-cars.html


I came across this web site today. I am not up to date on the car import situation but this info does not seem to be correct. Since when did Mexico allow non NAFTA vehicles? Is this a scam? I have seen her name mentioned before as an expert on this subject.



sparks


Aug 27, 2016, 12:39 PM

Post #2 of 38 (5125 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] importing a car, yet again!

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Originally she was doing something with Campesino Plates and now it's under an Amparo ..... or maybe a combination ??

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


Moisheh

Aug 27, 2016, 12:45 PM

Post #3 of 38 (5121 views)

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Re: [sparks] importing a car, yet again!

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Thanks Sparks. I doubt it is 100% legal. I am not personally interested but I know lots of foreigners that are very interested. Procedure also seems to be very expensive.


Moisheh


(This post was edited by Moisheh on Aug 27, 2016, 12:46 PM)


ifyoucanttakeajoke


Aug 27, 2016, 12:49 PM

Post #4 of 38 (5117 views)

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Re: [sparks] importing a car, yet again!

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It's still Campesino plates. Good only for travel in a few Mexican states, insurance may not be any good, cannot sell the vehicle in Mexico, etc. Originally intended for helping out poor farmers to get some kind of registration for their trucks that were illegally brought in from the states, but also used by cheapskate Gringos who don't want to do it the correct way.

Makes you a target for the police, when they see an obvious Gringo driving a late-model car with plates intended for poor farm workers.

I will probably be roundly flamed by pro-UCD types. I don't care. Flame away.


RickS


Aug 27, 2016, 2:33 PM

Post #5 of 38 (5105 views)

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Re: [ifyoucanttakeajoke] importing a car, yet again!

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No need nor intention to flame as it is not necessary...

But I think that you are mistaken about them being "Campesino" plates, otherwise known as USD.

I have followed Sonia over the years and probably have a more positive view of her than some/most, but..... As her website suggests, this newest round is being done under an Amparo (Court Injunction) and I am pretty sure that it is under the auspices of the USD organization but NOT USD plates. Re-read her website.

Having said that, I am also pretty sure that, since these Nationalizations are not being done 'at the border', they do NOT meet US requirement that the vehicle must first be officially EXPORTED from the US by Customs and Border Protection (CBP) personnel. This is per NAFTA requirements. What none of us know is whether this Amparo somehow, by definition, removes the responsibility of them to meet the NAFTA Export requirement. If anyone has definitive proof either way, that would be of value to us all.

Anyway, from where I sit, and except for the Export question being addressed, I'd say that what she is doing IS legal under Mexican law and that one does/can get Mexican plates and the vehicle can drive anywhere one wants and is NOT using UCD plates.

As I say, just my view/opinion on this..... but at the end of the day no one, including myself, but possibly Spencer can address the legality of it all.


chinagringo


Aug 27, 2016, 4:22 PM

Post #6 of 38 (5095 views)

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Re: [RickS] importing a car, yet again!

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Can you explain why she has taken monies and then sat on them for up to a year or more while refusing to give refunds due to the delays?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



RickS


Aug 27, 2016, 4:49 PM

Post #7 of 38 (5092 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] importing a car, yet again!

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I don't know firsthand that she has done this. Do you? I surely have heard those rumors on the web (last year during the whole legal battle with judges and brokers at the border) but never saw/heard anyone first hand say "She took my money and wouldn't give it back". Only web-talk that this did happen.

P. S. I am not going to get in a Forum battle over the merits of Sonia's business. The only reason I Posted is that I felt the info prior to my Post was distorted or misleading vis a vie what she has on her website. I do have my opinions about her business but, again, I'm not going to engage any more on the subject.

RickS


bigriver

Aug 28, 2016, 11:49 AM

Post #8 of 38 (5050 views)

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Re: [RickS] importing a car, yet again!

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In Reply To
No need nor intention to flame as it is not necessary...

But I think that you are mistaken about them being "Campesino" plates, otherwise known as USD.

I have followed Sonia over the years and probably have a more positive view of her than some/most, but..... As her website suggests, this newest round is being done under an Amparo (Court Injunction) and I am pretty sure that it is under the auspices of the USD organization but NOT USD plates. Re-read her website.

Having said that, I am also pretty sure that, since these Nationalizations are not being done 'at the border', they do NOT meet US requirement that the vehicle must first be officially EXPORTED from the US by Customs and Border Protection (CBP) personnel. This is per NAFTA requirements. What none of us know is whether this Amparo somehow, by definition, removes the responsibility of them to meet the NAFTA Export requirement. If anyone has definitive proof either way, that would be of value to us all.

Anyway, from where I sit, and except for the Export question being addressed, I'd say that what she is doing IS legal under Mexican law and that one does/can get Mexican plates and the vehicle can drive anywhere one wants and is NOT using UCD plates.

As I say, just my view/opinion on this..... but at the end of the day no one, including myself, but possibly Spencer can address the legality of it all.



Where in the NAFTA is official CBP vehicle export stipulated as a requirement of Mexico regarding vehicle nationalization? The “export” requirement dating back to the 1989 revisions to the Trade & Tariff Act of 1984 (adding regulations to vehicle exports) and the Anti-Car Theft Act of 1992 were enacted wholly to prevent the illegal export abroad of stolen units. My understanding is this legislation was adopted by Mexico independently from the NAFTA as prudent underwriting standards regarding vehicle import from the U.S.


RickS


Aug 28, 2016, 11:56 AM

Post #9 of 38 (5048 views)

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Re: [bigriver] importing a car, yet again!

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You may be totally correct and if so I stand corrected on 'when/why' the US & Mexico require vehicles meant to be Imported into Mexico from the US first be formally Exported from the US.


Gatos

Aug 28, 2016, 12:25 PM

Post #10 of 38 (5039 views)

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Re: [bigriver] importing a car, yet again!

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Where in the NAFTA is official CBP vehicle export stipulated as a requirement of Mexico regarding vehicle nationalization? The “export” requirement dating back to the 1989 revisions to the Trade & Tariff Act of 1984 (adding regulations to vehicle exports) and the Anti-Car Theft Act of 1992 were enacted wholly to prevent the illegal export abroad of stolen units. My understanding is this legislation was adopted by Mexico independently from the NAFTA as prudent underwriting standards regarding vehicle import from the U.S.


So then - if a person (regardless of their residency status) were to have visited Aduana to import a US car (one which they were the sole owner of from the factory) and received a valid pedimento and subsequently valid plates/registration from their (Mexican) home state - would you assume that Mexico had no US export related concerns - OR - today as part of the nationalization process is there a step which explicitly requires US exportation ? There have to be a ton of (non-stolen, formerly) US cars driving through the streets of Mexico - which have never been formerly exported from the US.


RickS


Aug 28, 2016, 12:38 PM

Post #11 of 38 (5033 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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"There have to be a ton of (non-stolen, formerly) US cars driving through the streets of Mexico - which have never been formerly exported from the US."

You are absolutely correct about this! Maybe 2 tons. But that all came to a head (was it?) last year when this 'must be Exported' situation came to a head. There was a huge stoppage for months of Importing at the border, some of which was caused not only by the non-exported situation but by 'crooked' personnel, including some judges as I recall, and as some have speculated by the New/Used car dealers/Associations within Mexico who saw a lot of their potential sales being curtailed by importation from the US.

As a result of this stoppage the 'must be Exported first' situation was address and now 'all' Nationalization at the border must clear this hurtle first. I've heard no instances where this added any/much cost but does probably slow down the process some.


Gatos

Aug 28, 2016, 12:52 PM

Post #12 of 38 (5029 views)

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Re: [RickS] importing a car, yet again!

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So while it really doesn't concern us at the moment (since we are here) - if a person in the process of entering Mexico and completing their RP process were to arrive at the border - having exported their vehicle on the US side - they can now request to nationalize their vehicle at that point (and I guess acquire Mexican plates when they arrive at their ultimate location) ? I realize there are age/NAFTA restrictions (maybe not) on the vehicle. So - in principal - an RP 'can't' drive a foreign plated vehicle - but they can get temp plates at the border ?


yucatandreamer


Aug 28, 2016, 1:04 PM

Post #13 of 38 (5025 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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Just a note this all cars must be exported applies to USA cars and not Canadian as far as I know. You can leave Canada and drive through the USA and then arrive in Mexico. I do not believe Canadians need to export their cars from Canada and since they are never imported to the USA when you drive through you would not be able to export them from the USA in order to import them to Mexico. Not all people who bring cars here are from the USA.


bigriver

Aug 28, 2016, 2:04 PM

Post #14 of 38 (5013 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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I think Mexican custom and tax authorities have had in the past, and more so at the present, a strong desire to control ALL vehicles “imported” from the U.S. Recent changes regarding more stringent eligibility requirements to import & more robust enforcement are evidence of such.

Unlike the U.S., Mexico does not have in place border controls to monitor all incoming vehicles. As a result Mexico is deluged with “chocolates,” stolen-salvage-quality used vehicles from the U.S. that have circumvented the legal process to import. Over decades the consequences have been alarming air pollution, compromised quality control standards, franchised auto dealer protest, limited MVD accountability, lost tax revenue, etc.

Although largely unenforceable regarding Mexico, U.S. CBP strives to audit the VIN & investigate related exporter actions to ensure the vehicle is not stolen, VIN/title/vehicle jive, and it isn’t destined for North Korea. Requiring a U.S. import seeking Mexican nationalization to be documented by CBP as an official export is an ingenious step taken by Mexico that doesn’t purge its used vehicle market of all unwanted vehicles but certainly is an additional & very advantageous filter at mostly the U.S. expense.

My understanding is that ALL legal nationalization, without doubt foreigners/expats importing their car, is processed at the border only.


rvgringo

Aug 28, 2016, 2:14 PM

Post #15 of 38 (5009 views)

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Re: [bigriver] importing a car, yet again!

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Gatos, and others, should also be aware that this is not something that an individual can do; a customs broker is required and it will take about three days at the border, if the car is eligible by age, VIN and condition.


Gatos

Aug 28, 2016, 3:27 PM

Post #16 of 38 (5000 views)

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Re: [bigriver] importing a car, yet again!

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My understanding is that ALL legal nationalization, without doubt foreigners/expats importing their car, is processed at the border only.


That was not our personal experience - but I will chalk it up to luck AND a really good import agent (no AMPARO). But it has been a few years..

Perhaps a little 'karma'...


(This post was edited by Gatos on Aug 28, 2016, 3:49 PM)


chinagringo


Aug 28, 2016, 7:29 PM

Post #17 of 38 (4981 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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“Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness.”
― Marshall McLuhan
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



playaboy

Aug 29, 2016, 6:15 AM

Post #18 of 38 (4955 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] importing a car, yet again!

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In Reply To
http://www.soniadiaz.mx/nationalizing-cars.html


I came across this web site today. I am not up to date on the car import situation but this info does not seem to be correct. Since when did Mexico allow non NAFTA vehicles? Is this a scam? I have seen her name mentioned before as an expert on this subject.


I don't know of any procedures that have changed since Sept 2014.

I have not heard of anybody successfully "virtually importing" a vehicle since Sept 2014. I have read about a lot of ripoffs and fraud for people that tried since Sept 2014

This thread explains USA export requirements.

http://www.mexconnect.com/...string=carla;#204536


(This post was edited by RickS on Aug 29, 2016, 7:19 AM)


Gatos

Aug 29, 2016, 6:37 AM

Post #19 of 38 (4948 views)

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Re: [playaboy] importing a car, yet again!

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Let me start by saying I have no recent experience but perhaps things can be accomplished by visiting one of the Aduana locations. Perhaps that is not seen as a 'virtual' transaction. If you enter from Laredo and find yourself in Cancun perhaps a customs broker can process you at the Cancun aduana office ? Pure speculation on my part - but it would seem like a sensible thing.


Moisheh

Aug 29, 2016, 9:28 AM

Post #20 of 38 (4920 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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I do know that Canada will not allow you to Import a car from the USA unless it has ben cleared by USA customs. The Title is canceled. I was surprised at the negative posts re Sonia. I do not know her but remember seeing many posts on this subject and she was helpful. However I have now become suspicious. I bet when the auto dealers get wind of this scheme heads will roll. Canada and the USA follow all the NAFTA rules. The import process is painless. But there are requirements : safety features, DRL for Canada and more. Seems that Mexico only follows NAFTA rules when they receive benefits. Considering that Canada and the USA have lost thousands of jobs as plants have moved to Mexico they should start being fair!


Moisheh


rvgringo

Aug 29, 2016, 10:35 AM

Post #21 of 38 (4909 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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Let me start by saying I have no recent experience but perhaps things can be accomplished by visiting one of the Aduana locations. Perhaps that is not seen as a 'virtual' transaction. If you enter from Laredo and find yourself in Cancun perhaps a customs broker can process you at the Cancun aduana office ? Pure speculation on my part - but it would seem like a sensible thing.

Sorry, but things have changed in recent years, as explained above. What you did in the past is no longer the way things are done. If you are to be Residente Permanente, then buy your next car in the state where you will live; one which has an original factura from a Mexican dealer.


(This post was edited by rvgringo on Aug 29, 2016, 10:40 AM)


Gatos

Aug 29, 2016, 11:50 AM

Post #22 of 38 (4900 views)

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Re: [rvgringo] importing a car, yet again!

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We already have our RP credentials - for close to four years now.

Actually - earlier this year we purchased a new Subaru in DF. The dealership was kind enough to put dealer plates on it and deliver it to our home in another state. Then we went to Transporte and since it had never been registered, there were no problems getting our plates etc.

Regarding importing car - I'm sure you are trying to be helpful in repeating what you have read on the internet. Had we read (and followed) all the advice on the internet we might NOT have tried it the way we did - and very well may not have the car we do now. But I will grant you we paid more than a lot of expats would probably be willing to pay. I'm glad that whole importation process is behind us. It was lengthy and stressful.


RickS


Aug 29, 2016, 12:35 PM

Post #23 of 38 (4892 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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Gatos, having not a clue what 'process' you followed, can't address it of course.... and I'm not asking that you share your 'method' at all. BUT, if that was done prior to the Fall of 2014 it is entirely possible that you were able to 'get it done legally' without an Export from the US. These days it is different and 'all' verifiable Nationalizations must be done at the border to include the Export from the US via Customs and Border Protection agents. RVGringo was not only trying to be helpful, he was speaking the current truth. We also have a lot of accounts where folks used another process(es), some even including the Aduana office at the Guadalajara airport, only to find out later that their process was illegal and that they had been given falsely acquired Jalicso title/plates... meaning they had/have nothing now but a large hole in their pocket books.

IMO, at the end of the day none of us can be absolutely sure of anything with regard to Nationalizing previously US titled vehicles. But we try to stay on top of it and to also impart the most reliable info to go forward with.... even if it is on the Internet.


(This post was edited by RickS on Aug 30, 2016, 7:53 AM)


Gatos

Aug 29, 2016, 12:54 PM

Post #24 of 38 (4886 views)

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Re: [RickS] importing a car, yet again!

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I'll let it go - but in doing so I'll suggest that if a person finds themselves in an awkward position with a US plated vehicle and want to nationalize it - call Aduana DF, tell them the facts, and see if they can help.

Earlier in this thread I asked
"So while it really doesn't concern us at the moment (since we are here) - if a person in the process of entering Mexico and completing their RP process were to arrive at the border - having exported their vehicle on the US side - they can now request to nationalize their vehicle at that point (and I guess acquire Mexican plates when they arrive at their ultimate location) ? I realize there are age/NAFTA restrictions (maybe not) on the vehicle. So - in principal - an RP 'can't' drive a foreign plated vehicle - but they can get temp plates at the border ?"

So - can an RP candidate nationalize their car at the border today - before entering Mexico ? If so, that would be a vast improvement...


playaboy

Aug 29, 2016, 2:44 PM

Post #25 of 38 (4876 views)

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Re: [Gatos] importing a car, yet again!

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RT's and RP's can not nationalize a car at the border or anywhere else for that matter. Only Mexicans can import a vehicle. Foreigners need to do the presta nombre dance.

RV, there are way to get the process done in less than a day. You should to talk with your broker.


(This post was edited by playaboy on Aug 29, 2016, 2:47 PM)
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