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skier14

Mar 31, 2016, 3:31 PM

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CFE

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My old electric meter (with dials) was replaced with a digital one in September 2015. Whereas before I was paying about 500 pesos every 2 month, I have been billed just over 2000 pesos since. Two billing cycles ago the Government stopped its share. The latest bill showed 8.62 kWh for 61 days at a daily cost of 35.16 pesos for a final cost 2145 pesos. My neighbor told me its a way for the Government to rob the people. I live in Tonala, Jalisco ( a section of Guadalajara), have no space heater or air-conditioning, light bulbs are spirals except the front porch one is the new expensive type(LED?), clothes washing machine and gas dryer, 2/14' refrigerators, and 3 TV's. What say compardres.



AlanMexicali


Mar 31, 2016, 4:03 PM

Post #2 of 31 (5260 views)

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Re: [skier14] CFE

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My old electric meter (with dials) was replaced with a digital one in September 2015. Whereas before I was paying about 500 pesos every 2 month, I have been billed just over 2000 pesos since. Two billing cycles ago the Government stopped its share. The latest bill showed 8.62 kWh for 61 days at a daily cost of 35.16 pesos for a final cost 2145 pesos. My neighbor told me its a way for the Government to rob the people. I live in Tonala, Jalisco ( a section of Guadalajara), have no space heater or air-conditioning, light bulbs are spirals except the front porch one is the new expensive type(LED?), clothes washing machine and gas dryer, 2/14' refrigerators, and 3 TV's. What say compardres.





You got yourself into the DAC rate over the winter and will have to wait until your comsumption goes down to 250 KWHs per month for it to average out to 3000 KWHs per 12 months to get subsidized again at the 3 tier lowest rate. Check your last 6 bill´s comsumption. Is it 3000 KWHs or is it more?


"DOMESTIC CONSUMPTION HIGH (DAC), 2016


Check Rates of: 20162015201420132012201120102009200820072006



This rate will apply to all energy services intended for domestic use only. It is considered guzzling when registering an average monthly consumption exceeds the limit defined high consumption for your locality.

The average monthly consumption is determined by the moving average consumption recorded by the user in the last 12 months.

When the Average Monthly Consumption is lower than the limit set High consumption in the city, domestic tariff 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E and 1F apply; corresponding

The high consumption limit is defined in terms of domestic rate: 1, 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E and 1F; that applies in your area.



RATE LIMIT
1 250 kWh / month"


http://app.cfe.gob.mx/...al2003&anio=2016


Your daily consumption leaves you at 525.82 KWHs for 61 days, exactly 2 months and if you don´t reduce consumption to 500 KWHs every 2 months to average the 500 KWHs to equal 3000 KWHs in 12 months you will stay in the DAC rate. It looks like the new meter is more accurate than the old meter.

3000 KWHs/ 365= 8.219 KWHs per day for 61 days = 500 KWHs to stay highly subsidized.


(This post was edited by AlanMexicali on Mar 31, 2016, 6:19 PM)


RuralPuebla

Apr 6, 2016, 9:02 PM

Post #3 of 31 (5083 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] CFE

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I live in rural Puebla. My CFE runs around 250 to 270 KWH a month. I bought one of those wattmeters that you plug into an outlet, then plug your appliance into it. My refrigerator, a Mabe, around the same size as yours, uses almost half of the electricity in my house. So, I would say two refrigerators will run around half of your monthly consumption as well.

I also got a new digital meter, and it also used much more electricity than the mechanical one. That is because the mechanical one was defective and did not properly record the usage.

In my honest opinion, sorry, they are billing you correctly. You do use a lot of power. In the US we don't get clobbered for excess use so we are used to using a lot.

All my bulbs inside the house, save one, a 26 watt spiral, are 15 watt LED's or less. We do have a wash machine but no dryer. In the mountains, there are not many days without sun so clothes dry well on the roof.

Information helps you. I recommend getting one of those watt-meters and find out exactly what you are using. of course, it is a matter of choice. If you can afford high rates and are willing to pay them, that is certainly your choice. But, you may find ways to reduce consumption with a watt meter.

Clearly, turning off one refrigerator should put you under the limit, but that may not be a acceptable for your life style.


AlanMexicali


Apr 7, 2016, 12:37 AM

Post #4 of 31 (5075 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] CFE

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I live in rural Puebla. My CFE runs around 250 to 270 KWH a month. I bought one of those wattmeters that you plug into an outlet, then plug your appliance into it. My refrigerator, a Mabe, around the same size as yours, uses almost half of the electricity in my house. So, I would say two refrigerators will run around half of your monthly consumption as well.

I also got a new digital meter, and it also used much more electricity than the mechanical one. That is because the mechanical one was defective and did not properly record the usage.

In my honest opinion, sorry, they are billing you correctly. You do use a lot of power. In the US we don't get clobbered for excess use so we are used to using a lot.

All my bulbs inside the house, save one, a 26 watt spiral, are 15 watt LED's or less. We do have a wash machine but no dryer. In the mountains, there are not many days without sun so clothes dry well on the roof.

Information helps you. I recommend getting one of those watt-meters and find out exactly what you are using. of course, it is a matter of choice. If you can afford high rates and are willing to pay them, that is certainly your choice. But, you may find ways to reduce consumption with a watt meter.

Clearly, turning off one refrigerator should put you under the limit, but that may not be a acceptable for your life style.



The electric motor in a clothes dryer comsumes KWHs. The more time you use it the more it consumes. Motors and anything that heats up are high comsumers. The larger the motor the higher the comsumption.


(This post was edited by AlanMexicali on Apr 7, 2016, 12:38 AM)


RuralPuebla

Apr 7, 2016, 7:58 AM

Post #5 of 31 (5051 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] CFE

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Exactly. But, this is a multiple issue problem. 2000 pesos seems like a lot. In the US, where we keep a mobile home, in hot weather our bill runs over $100 a month. And, as bad as 2000 pesos sounds, it comes out to less than $60 a month, unless I made an error. (It would not be the first time.)

There are many solutions. For example, it looks like shutting off one refrigerator a week or so each month would put it under. (See my comment about errors.) Also, during that week, if OP has a ice box like we have in our car when we travel, a bag of ice may not cost much more than 10 or 15 pesos for a day if the one refrig. is not quite enough.

I was raised poor. As an adult, I started out close to Ebeneezer Scrooge, and cut expenses as much as possible. On Saturdays my wife would take the girl to an upscale department store and spend the day there, including eating among store employees who treated them like family. They would come home by bus, happy and content.

I spent the day running around to K-mart type stores and by evening would be covered with sweat and stressed with frustration and rage. For this, I would save maybe $20. I finally realized my wife was the one who was using her money wisely. It was a hard lesson to learn.

If OP can afford that $60 a month, and is happy with his lifestyle, he need not apologize for the high usage. He can spend all day fussing trying to save electricity, for a few dollars. Or, he can relax and enjoy his good life and the fact that he has the money to do it. Only OP can make that decision.


skier14

Apr 7, 2016, 12:16 PM

Post #6 of 31 (5019 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] CFE

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Thanks guys. Off to get a watt meter and a couple bottles of wine to relieve stress. I notice that I don't seem to mind paying twice as much for wine here in Mexico as wine in the USA!!! I keep it refrigerated also.


RuralPuebla

Apr 29, 2016, 4:22 PM

Post #7 of 31 (4788 views)

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Re: [skier14] CFE

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Let me tell you how the Mexicans deal with such issues. I do not recommend it, because it violates my personal code of honor and honesty.

The excess use charges apply to each meter. My builder says he has build small houses for people in our community. They announce it will include rental property, and have two meters installed. With manipulation of the wiring system, such as using extension cords to move heavy appliance usage to the other system you can use twice as much before you get clobbered.

They have no intention of renting one bedroom of a small two bedroom house. But, it keeps their cost down for electricity.

I cannot blame them. They don't have a lot of money for the most part. Those building houses are often those who went to the States, usually illegally. Once they have a house built, they can usually live within the modest Mexican incomes in rural areas, but they do want to keep costs down.

I am one of many expats blessed by sufficient income, at least for rural Mexico. So, I can stand on my principles. But, I do not blame them for a different viewpoint.


chinagringo


Apr 29, 2016, 4:54 PM

Post #8 of 31 (4784 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] CFE

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I can assure you that there are plenty of Gringos playing this game!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



RuralPuebla

Apr 29, 2016, 6:16 PM

Post #9 of 31 (4779 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] CFE

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Thanks for info. I would not know this, because there is only one other expat within a 750 square mile area. She is a wife and a mom and I have never talked to her. So, I don't know much about other expats.


skier14

Apr 30, 2016, 10:24 AM

Post #10 of 31 (4728 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] CFE

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I know some Mexicans that have a diverter switch in the house to bypass the meter. If caught the fine is pretty large.


cbviajero

Apr 30, 2016, 11:13 AM

Post #11 of 31 (4721 views)

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Re: [skier14] CFE

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I know some Mexicans that have a diverter switch in the house to bypass the meter. If caught the fine is pretty large.

Yep,it's called a (diablito), there was one in the house I bought,I removed it.
There is also a practice in some areas of hanging wire off the main cables
of the CFE to get electricity.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Apr 30, 2016, 11:15 AM)


skier14

May 1, 2016, 9:12 AM

Post #12 of 31 (4664 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] CFE

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I stayed in a small hotel in Zihautanejo with a balcony room on the street side. From my balcony I saw over 10 connections from the electric cables to various buildings nearby and even one to my hotel.


joaquinx


May 1, 2016, 9:39 AM

Post #13 of 31 (4661 views)

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Re: CFE

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Electricity commission Q1 losses rise 24% http://goo.gl/ruQQKr
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


YucaLandia


May 1, 2016, 10:49 AM

Post #14 of 31 (4653 views)

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Re: [skier14] CFE

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I stayed in a small hotel in Zihautanejo with a balcony room on the street side. From my balcony I saw over 10 connections from the electric cables to various buildings nearby and even one to my hotel.


This image is worth more than 1,000 words.

When an ordinary person can look up, and plainly see over 10 clearly-illegal connections of people stealing electricity ... then the local officials clearly (intentionally) are 'looking the other way' . Just as in America (Chicago, Wall Street, Washington) ... money changes hands, and 'agreements' are made.*

Each area in Mexico has its own unique characteristics, where
~ some areas tolerate corruption, ~ some areas work to root-out & stop corruption, ~ some areas accept with some corruption, and some areas thrive on corruption,

which fits with joaquinx's post.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


YucaLandia


May 1, 2016, 11:01 AM

Post #15 of 31 (4650 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] CFE

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*Here in Yucatan, we have been slowly rooting-out corruption.

One old gringo friend (here since 1969) had both the diablito +plus he 'paid a guy' in the CFE computer billing office to cut his remaining (measured) bill in ½ ... by manipulating the his CFE bills in the computer. The old gringo kicked-back $$ as half of the 'reduction' ... paying-off the CFE employee.

Yucatan CFE started cracking down about 5 years ago (due to $$ losses). The crooked electrician (diablito installer) came to the old gringo, demanding an extra $1,000 pesos to remove the diablito ... because 'CFE was checking other houses in that area' ...

and then the crooked electrician came back 2 months later and demanded another $1,000 pesos to re-install the diablito, because 'the CFE crackdown ... had moved on to another area'... and that 'he might have to report that he had found a prior diablito when working' on the old gringo's house...

and then the crooked electrician came back again, 3 months later, demanding yet another $1,000 pesos to remove the diablito (again), because 'CFE was checking properties in the area' ... again.

... does anyone else sense a trend?

The next extortion demand by the electrician ... made the old gringo say... Basta... no mas diablitos... no mas pagamentos ...

So... 'work-arounds' sure can sound tasty to newbies ... or cool ... or reasonable ... to follow Neil's advice that 'everyone's doing it'

When CFE cans the cheating employee for manipulating bills ... do you really want to worry about where he covered the tracks back to your account ?

as happened to the old-gringo friend?


When your electrician-thief needs $$ for mami's operation ... and shifts to extortion ... then what?

Call the Mexconnector who gave the advice that 'everyone does it' ... expecting their help?

Hint: Arm-chair advisors (living in the USA) don't make house calls to Mexico.
;)

Happy Trails,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 1, 2016, 11:04 AM)


YucaLandia


May 1, 2016, 11:08 AM

Post #16 of 31 (4647 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] CFE

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I can assure you that there are plenty of Gringos playing this game!


The CFE crackdown on stealing electricity has also extended to the 2 meter game.

Both at the beach and in Merida... CFE has been bundling both meters into a single bill ... and back-charging offenders for $10,000's of pesos when they determine that there are not 2 separate abodes with separate tenants on the property.

Remember that the people offering internet counsel from the USA, don't make house-calls in Mexico to rescue those who follow internet advice that boomerangs.

Happy Trails,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 1, 2016, 1:45 PM)


skier14

May 1, 2016, 11:59 AM

Post #17 of 31 (4639 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] CFE

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So instead of seriously going after the elect. robbers they just raise the rates for those that do it right? Mexico. I once read an article that said that in Mexico when business is bad prices are raised. My local Dra. used to charge about 75 pesos for an office visit and one had to wait in line to see her. She has raised her rates over time until it is now 175 pesos. The last time I went there I just knocked on her door. No other patients before me and when I left no one was waiting LOL


arbon

May 1, 2016, 12:20 PM

Post #18 of 31 (4636 views)

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Re: [skier14] CFE

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The Electric cars in Mexico will have extension ladders on the roof , for recharging from the over head wires.Eh
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



chinagringo


May 1, 2016, 12:58 PM

Post #19 of 31 (4629 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] CFE

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Enough with your cheapshots! Did I say anywhere that I condoned the practice? I simply said there were plenty of Gringos doing it!

Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



RuralPuebla

May 1, 2016, 3:17 PM

Post #20 of 31 (4614 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] CFE

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I am very risk averse. I avoid the problems from being involved in corruption by simply refusing the false economy of corruption.

I also do not drive three over in the USA It hasn't stopped me from being pulled over, but I try to do what is right. Then, I have a right to complain when they do illegal things to me.

My view is if 100,000 people commit an illegal act, and one person is keel-hauled, I will be that one person.

My wife is a 74 year old Mexican citizen. She obtained an elder card for discounts on things like bus tickets and property taxes. I would prefer she did not, we can pay. But, she is Mexican and is legally entitled to have and use that card. So, I concluded I simply don't have the right to TRY to forbid it, not that she would listen to me anyway. :D


RuralPuebla

May 1, 2016, 3:38 PM

Post #21 of 31 (4613 views)

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Re: [RuralPuebla] CFE

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I don't know how to say this without offending. Sorry.

Some of it comes back to morality and class. People are different in how much it takes to induce them to rip off someone. They will sell their honor for a few dollars. I do not claim to be a saint, but I try to show some class and honor in my life in Mexico. I figure as the only one of two foreigners in this village, people are watching me. And, I want to be a credit to my nation as best I can.

Among other things I teach free English classes to my neighbors, using the Laubach courses. The problem is, they too often assume since the classes are free, they are without value and don't always take them seriously. But, some of them do understand it is a great opportunity and are very grateful to me. They take me in to their community and treat me with respect, and it is the least I can do in return. And, I really love my students.

My wife asked me why almost all my students are female. I rolled my eyes upward, and held my hands up as if in prayer, and said, "Pure coincidence." Then, added, "In truth it's because the females have more ambition to learn." Which is the truth.

Over the years, maybe 40 females and 4 or 5 males have asked for classes. Right now I have 7 females from 8 to 38 and no males at all.

I for one did not assume China was advocating stealing electricity. He and I both simply reported what we see the Mexicans do. I tried to specifically state I had no intention of doing it.


johanson


May 1, 2016, 3:52 PM

Post #22 of 31 (4612 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] CFE

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I want to add, and I hope, I get a smile, My electric bill just doubled from 2,300 to 4,600 Mexican centavos. What happened? CFE changed my billing cycle to once every two months, instead of once per month. And yes that equates to $23 pesos per month.
I keep my bill that low by generating electricity with photovoltaic solar panels that were installed in late 2007 early 2008. And yes I have had them long enough so that the savings made has more than paid for the cost of those panels.


Oh and you are charged a minimum of 25 KWH per month whether you generative more power than you used or used 1 to 25 KWH per month. And because I ordered one more panel than suggested I usually generate enough power to keep my bill at the minimum.
Now if I could only drill a well, find a water source and drop my water bill :)


cbviajero

May 1, 2016, 7:17 PM

Post #23 of 31 (4599 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] CFE

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*Here in Yucatan, we have been slowly rooting-out corruption.

One old gringo friend (here since 1969) had both the diablito +plus he 'paid a guy' in the CFE computer billing office to cut his remaining (measured) bill in ½ ... by manipulating the his CFE bills in the computer. The old gringo kicked-back $$ as half of the 'reduction' ... paying-off the CFE employee.

Yucatan CFE started cracking down about 5 years ago (due to $$ losses). The crooked electrician (diablito installer) came to the old gringo, demanding an extra $1,000 pesos to remove the diablito ... because 'CFE was checking other houses in that area' ...

and then the crooked electrician came back 2 months later and demanded another $1,000 pesos to re-install the diablito, because 'the CFE crackdown ... had moved on to another area'... and that 'he might have to report that he had found a prior diablito when working' on the old gringo's house...

and then the crooked electrician came back again, 3 months later, demanding yet another $1,000 pesos to remove the diablito (again), because 'CFE was checking properties in the area' ... again.

... does anyone else sense a trend?

The next extortion demand by the electrician ... made the old gringo say... Basta... no mas diablitos... no mas pagamentos ...

So... 'work-arounds' sure can sound tasty to newbies ... or cool ... or reasonable ... to follow Neil's advice that 'everyone's doing it'

When CFE cans the cheating employee for manipulating bills ... do you really want to worry about where he covered the tracks back to your account ?

as happened to the old-gringo friend?


When your electrician-thief needs $$ for mami's operation ... and shifts to extortion ... then what?

Call the Mexconnector who gave the advice that 'everyone does it' ... expecting their help?

Hint: Arm-chair advisors (living in the USA) don't make house calls to Mexico.
;)

Happy Trails,
steve

So in other words your friend was a thief and paid the consequences,that's tough...
BTW,when I removed the diablito in my house it took me about half an hour and a couple of trompitos/wire nuts and electrical tape,total cost less than 20 pesos..


(This post was edited by cbviajero on May 1, 2016, 9:28 PM)


YucaLandia


May 2, 2016, 6:16 AM

Post #24 of 31 (4553 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] CFE

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Yeah, your experience with the lack of difficulty and low cost of removing the diablito fits with the gringo friend's experience, that he was being extorted. ... which comes back to how we view ourselves, and our role(s) in Mexico.

It's clear to me that acting like a loud gringo, a pushy gringo, an abusive gringo, ... telling stories of how other gringos 'get away with' cheating & stealing... all combine to encourage some newbies to think that this stuff is

~ either OK
or
~ it's an unavoidable part of living in Mexico,
or
~ it's maybe even the 'norm'


The central person in this thread even says they don't have experience, they seek advice, and they don't know how others in the same situation are handling it.

Assurances that there are plenty of Gringos playing this game of cheating CFE
... take the Mexconnect board down the road of becoming a "How To" guide for ... 'How To: Break Mexican laws for fun & profit, and not get caught'

versus the alternate choice of describing what's happened to some abusive gringos who've followed the crooked paths.

There have been too many public posts about CFE abusing well-meaning foreigners, who get unexpected massive one-time $$ CFE charges, because CFE believes they have been cheating -
where the cheater's past bad acts boomerang back onto unsuspecting folks.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


cbviajero

May 2, 2016, 8:45 AM

Post #25 of 31 (4530 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] CFE

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Yeah, your experience with the lack of difficulty and low cost of removing the diablito fits with the gringo friend's experience, that he was being extorted. .

There have been too many public posts about CFE abusing well-meaning foreigners, who get unexpected massive one-time $$ CFE charges, because CFE believes they have been cheating

Your friend was stealing electricity with his diablito and bribing CFE employees to get a further discount and you say he was getting extorted??
Sounds to me like he got what he deserved.

BTW,I don't think the CFE targets "well meaning foreigners",plenty of Mexicans have had similar problems with CFE billing issues.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on May 2, 2016, 10:52 AM)
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