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GodsGiftToMexico

Jan 10, 2016, 7:41 PM

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How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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I am an experienced investor in the US, but newbie in Mexico. The only time I ever spent in Mexico was September 2009, and that was on dental tourism.

I have a lead on an interest in a trust owning a house in Puerto Vallarta that is going to be sold in US at a forced sale auction. Forced sale basically means court ordered, and the current owner has no specific reason to cooperate in providing me information before the auction.

If the property was in the US, I would have had two options: check the title myself using the county records, or buy a preliminary title search from a title company. For most counties, if I chose to check the title myself, I could do it online.

What options do I have in Mexico ? And, more specifically, in Jalisco, and, even more specifically, in Puerto Vallarta. I don't have a contract to buy the property, so I don't want to spend too much money, since the odds are somebody else will be the highest bidder at the auction. But I am willing to spend some (as in $100 to $1,000) if needed.

The most important thing I want to find out is whether or not the property is encumbered by a mortgage. I am not worried about small stuff such as back taxes.

Rolly has information on his website on how to check liens for a car. But I haven't seen similar information about a house. I bought his book in 2009 or 2010, but I may have put it in storage since, and don't have it off hand.
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God's Gift To Mexico
http://PuntaBanda.org



chinagringo


Jan 10, 2016, 7:50 PM

Post #2 of 28 (10655 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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No experience myself in Puerto Vallarta but how about:

http://www.stla.net/...tle-puerto-vallarta/

As to what I have read, Stewart Title may have a good reputation?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



slainte39

Jan 10, 2016, 10:21 PM

Post #3 of 28 (10637 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Either you or an attorney should probably go to the office of Registro Publico and request a Solicitud de Certificado de No Gravamen ( request for certificate of no liens), for the property. It can be done on the internet and I think the cost is around 500 pesos. Just google the subject but you need to understand Spanish or have someone help you translate. In any case the sale will have to be finalized through a Notario Publico and that item will have to be included before he will finalize the transaction unless you agree to accept the gravamen.


playaboy

Jan 11, 2016, 4:59 AM

Post #4 of 28 (10624 views)

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Re: [slainte39] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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I am curious.

Does a US Court have any power in Mexico? Can a US court force the sale of a Mexican Bank Trust?


Mim11

Jan 11, 2016, 7:24 AM

Post #5 of 28 (10600 views)

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Re: [playaboy] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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I was wondering the exact same thing....


chinagringo


Jan 11, 2016, 7:29 AM

Post #6 of 28 (10598 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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How much attention would you guess that an American Court would pay to a judgement issued by a Mexican Court in a property matter?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



GodsGiftToMexico

Jan 11, 2016, 7:46 AM

Post #7 of 28 (10595 views)

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Re: [playaboy] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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In Reply To
I am curious.

Does a US Court have any power in Mexico? Can a US court force the sale of a Mexican Bank Trust?


The current owner is a US Citizen living in the US (the PV house is a rental). I am trying to influence the language in the court order to order the current owner to sign any document required by a Mexican notario. That's what, I hope, would make the sale effective.

Whether the judge will go for that remains to be seen.
-----------------------------------------------
God's Gift To Mexico
http://PuntaBanda.org


GodsGiftToMexico

Jan 11, 2016, 8:14 AM

Post #8 of 28 (10590 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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No experience myself in Puerto Vallarta but how about:

http://www.stla.net/...tle-puerto-vallarta/

As to what I have read, Stewart Title may have a good reputation?


Thank you very much Neil for the link. I am going to try salinte39's method first (thank you slainte39 for the terms "Registro Publico" and "Solicitud de Certificado de No Gravamen" - technical terms like that are life savers, since they make a Google search practical), and, if I don't manage to pull off the Certificado de No Gravamen from California, will ask the title company for a title report.
-----------------------------------------------
God's Gift To Mexico
http://PuntaBanda.org


rvgringo

Jan 11, 2016, 9:13 AM

Post #9 of 28 (10578 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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If the “owner“ is a US citizen, living in the USA, and not a dual citizen of Mexico, then the ownership of property near the coast or a border will be held in trust (fedeicomiso) by a Mexican bank. If the individual is uncooperative and if the property is a rental, there are Mexican tax implications which may be very complicated; if, in fact, he rented the property illegally; ie. without having permission on a lucrative visa and the appropriate Mexican tax documents, etc.
Frankly, I would run far and fast from such a situation. I see nothing but trouble and expense in that scenario. If you do want to investigate further, you would have to go to Puerto Vallarta and hire a notario to search the property to determine which bank holds title and if the fees are paid, etc., etc. I doubt the US court can effectively order anything in this case.
That is my best guess......


Maesonna

Jan 11, 2016, 9:30 AM

Post #10 of 28 (10572 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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In Mexico, it’s less common for the problem with a property to be a mortgage. More common problems are: no clear title (the property has belonged to a family for many generations, and they never regularized the title; if this applied in the present case, it was “sold” without a clear title), or ejido land (it was part of communal land, and the arrangements that allow it to be sold to a private owner were not fully or properly carried out).

In addition, or another possibility, is that there could be complications with the trust, as described above by Rvgringo.


jeffie1


Jan 11, 2016, 1:09 PM

Post #11 of 28 (10536 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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How much attention would you guess that an American Court would pay to a judgement issued by a Mexican Court in a property matter?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM
______________

Generally speaking, according to The Uniform Enforcement of Foreign Judgments Act.....If a judgment rendered in Mexico is domesticated properly according to the statutes of a particular state in the USA, then the judgment creditor would have all collection remedies available to him as if the judgment was rendered in that state to begin with.


slainte39

Jan 12, 2016, 8:29 AM

Post #12 of 28 (10478 views)

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Re: [playaboy] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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I have never heard of it but the preceding post says that it is possible. I would think the best course would be to start a new legal action in Mexico.
As far as rental problems, ejido problems, or title problems in general, a lot depends on the form of "ownership". Is it in a condo complex where there is a rental management company that pools the vacant properties for rent, a time share situation, or what?
As RV says, if it is within 50 km. of the shore and with a foreign citizen owner, it is probably held in a fideicomiso by some bank UNLESS the foreigner has formed a S.A. or some other corporate entity.
A lot of questions and investigation need to be resolved.


(This post was edited by slainte39 on Jan 12, 2016, 8:38 AM)


tony


Jan 28, 2016, 12:43 PM

Post #13 of 28 (10167 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Hi GGTM,
If you are looking for the title of this property, then it should lead you to the bank that is holding the title and maintaining the trust correct? Another question to ask once you find out which bank it is, "will the bank honor the court ordered owner change? This is assuming the owner will not voluntarily sign over the property.
Buenas Suerte
Tony

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."


rioesmarex

Jan 31, 2016, 7:59 PM

Post #14 of 28 (10054 views)

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Re: [rvgringo] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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If you are not a Mexican citizen, I would suggest that you first get " residente temporal " status before you try to buy, rent o lease any property in Mexico.
I believe the law has changed in the past few years to where " anyone " ( non-residents included ) can legally buy land ... even within the restricted zones ( close to the border or the coast ) BUT for less than $1000 you should be able to form a Mexican Corporation ( with you as the owner ... no longer required to have a Mexican on the papers as a " sheriff " ) and this then gives you much more leeway to operate . Could be that today you can even form a corporation as a non-resident tourist ????
The fiedecomisio with a bank is such a convoluted way to go and unless you are trying to buy " ejido " land, I wouldn't go that route.
Pretty sure you do NOT need a fiedecomisio nowadays to own land near the beach.


sparks


Feb 1, 2016, 6:32 AM

Post #15 of 28 (10022 views)

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Re: [rioesmarex] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Wow ..................

You definitely do need a fiedecomisio to own on the beach ........ and you can't have a fiedecomisio with Ejido land. With Ejido you need a Presta Nombre

Never heard the term "sheriff" used

Sparks Mexico Blog - Sparks Costalegre


AlanMexicali


Feb 1, 2016, 6:42 AM

Post #16 of 28 (10016 views)

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Re: [sparks] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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In Reply To
Wow ..................

You definitely do need a fiedecomisio to own on the beach ........ and you can't have a fiedecomisio with Ejido land. With Ejido you need a Presta Nombre

Never heard the term "sheriff" used



About a year ago or so a Senator of a state wrote a law to do away with fiedecomisios for foreigners and backed by other Senators but it didn´t get very far and I haven´t heard a word about it since.


slainte39

Feb 1, 2016, 9:20 AM

Post #17 of 28 (9994 views)

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Re: [sparks] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Totally agree!!!


rioesmarex

Feb 1, 2016, 10:05 AM

Post #18 of 28 (9985 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Sorry ...... but I have to disagree. I own land on the beach and it was bought by forming a Mexican corporation rather than a Fiedecomiosio. Up till a few years ago you had to have a Mexican on your deed of ownership of the corporation called a sheriff ( he was strictly a formality and had no voting rights or legal authority, then they changed the law to where this was no longer required
However I bow to your knowledge that you can't own land in an ejido with a fiedecomisio


YucaLandia


Feb 1, 2016, 10:32 AM

Post #19 of 28 (9976 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Wow ..................

You definitely do need a fiedecomisio to own on the beach ........ and you can't have a fiedecomisio with Ejido land. With Ejido you need a Presta Nombre

Never heard the term "sheriff" used




About a year ago or so a Senator of a state wrote a law to do away with fiedecomisios for foreigners and backed by other Senators but it didn´t get very far and I haven´t heard a word about it since.


The change in fideicomisos law died at the state level. It had to be approved by (at least?) a majority of the Mexican States, and it stalled there.

steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


rioesmarex

Feb 1, 2016, 11:01 AM

Post #20 of 28 (9966 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Sorry Steve but on this one you're wrong or there are quirks in the law you don't know about.
I and several others I know formed Mexican corporations called Sociedad Anomimo legally, using Notario's Publico licensed to do land deeds. for our properties on the beach. We all have clear and unrestricted titles in the corporations' name. These are non-profit corps. with no income or expenditure. All that is required is an agm to state that there has been no change in income/expense status.


YucaLandia


Feb 1, 2016, 2:58 PM

Post #21 of 28 (9948 views)

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Re: [rioesmarex] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Sorry Steve but on this one you're wrong or there are quirks in the law you don't know about.
I and several others I know formed Mexican corporations called Sociedad Anomimo legally, using Notario's Publico licensed to do land deeds. for our properties on the beach. We all have clear and unrestricted titles in the corporations' name. These are non-profit corps. with no income or expenditure. All that is required is an agm to state that there has been no change in income/expense status.


Hi Rio,
It's a simple misunderstanding on your part: You are referring to one very valid issue, while Alan & I are discussing a different point.

Alan was interested in the status of a 2013 proposed Law to end fideicomisos by changing Articulo 17 of the Constitution.

That 2013 legislation did not affect Soceidad Anonimo's.
Happy Trails,
steve

==============================

Hi Alan,
From what I can glean from May 2013 news reports, the proposed legislation to end fideicomisos for foreigners, stalled in the Camara de Diputados.

??
steve

- a big change
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


careyeroslib

Feb 6, 2016, 5:50 AM

Post #22 of 28 (9795 views)

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Re: [GodsGiftToMexico] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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We own property in Vallarta.

I have never heard of Mexican property being ordered sold by a US court. Your situation sounds extremely complicated so for sure you won't be able to get to the bottom of it yourself. I would try to find out whatever basic details you can about the property (what kind of property, where, ) and meantime, ask on a good local Puerto Vallarta Forum (Vallarta Scene) for a recommendation for a Vallarta area lawyer.

Just google "Vallarta scene".


tony


Feb 8, 2016, 8:27 AM

Post #23 of 28 (9714 views)

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Re: [rioesmarex] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Hi Rio,
From what you are saying, you formed a non profit corp on paper only that does not generate any profits or expenses. This paper corp "owns" property in the restricted zone. The title is in the corp name not yours. I don't see how you think this property is in your name. The law states that foreigners cannot own (title cannot be in their name) property in the RZ and you have given an example of it.
My brother recently bought property in PV and he went through the process of the fideicomiso. The property title is held by the bank in a trust.
I don't think it is fair to tell GGTM otherwise.
Tony

"We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are."


rioesmarex

Feb 11, 2016, 1:43 PM

Post #24 of 28 (9467 views)

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Re: [tony] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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Tony,
You are missing the whole point.
The land is in the name of the Mexican corporation BUT my wife and I are the sole owners of the corporation, so if ( when ) we ever wanted to sell, the buyer is buying the corporation. which owns the land.
If the buyer would be a Mexican, he would just dissolve the corporation and change the title to his name.
If the buyer is a foreigner, he simply has a notario publico change ownership of the corporation to his/her name.
It is a perfectly legal way for a foreigner to own land in the RZ and avoids the hassle of a feidecomisio and the related bank fees
If you don't believe me, talk to a notario publico


playaboy

Feb 12, 2016, 6:46 AM

Post #25 of 28 (9390 views)

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Re: [rioesmarex] How do I check the title on a property in Mexico ?

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I understand the set up you used to purchased your property. I have looked at beach property and the ways to acquire the "exclusive use" of a home.
How long will SAT/ISR allow a corporation without income, expenses or paying taxes to exist?? Aren't the capital gains taxes higher on the sale of real estates owned by corporations?
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