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DigYourself

May 25, 2015, 11:15 AM

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FATCA / Mexican banking

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rvgringo said "Foreign banks cannot be “required“ by the USA to do anything they choose not to do. They can simply dump clients from the USA and avoid the problem altogether. That is why I have always suggested that expats keep their bank accounts in the USA, even if ten of them have to rent a shared room with a mail slot in the USA, or use a mailing service. Online banking served us well for our 13 years in Mexico.
Why make it more complicated than it already is? "

But perhaps SAT can require a Mexican bank to comply with FATCA. After all Mexico has entered into an agreement with the US that is supposed to benefit both parties.

There are several reasons we have Mexican banking/brokerage accounts. For starters we actually make money on our money here in Mexico. I am also worried about US capital controls coming into the picture. Imagine if the US were to say 'ATM withdrawals will now be capped at 2000 USD per week - OR - X withdrawls per month'. I also worry about using an address in the US where we really don't reside. There are two large US financial institutions which have no problem at all with our residing in Mexico.



hunteradvisor


May 26, 2015, 3:53 AM

Post #2 of 17 (6245 views)

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Re: [cuerna1] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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Doesn't really matter what we think the forms are due to the U.S.-IRS 6/30/15 with no extension granted. If your bank is like mine (Banamex,Actinver Lloyd & Intercam) they are providing your name and ss# to the IRS who will in turn be looking for your filing.
Ideally one would live near a low fee ATM and manage with the allowable withdrawals from their. U.S. Bank and not hold money in a Mexican bank. That doesn't work for me as I live to far from PV. It is also worth looking at the IRS chart here to see if you are also required to file 8938. If you hold real estate in a corporation or have a trust or assets that exceeded the allowable max you will have to file both forms.
http://www.irs.gov/...nd-FBAR-Requirements
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

(This post was edited by RickS on May 26, 2015, 6:25 AM)


DigYourself

May 26, 2015, 4:07 AM

Post #3 of 17 (6244 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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Already done. April 15th is easy for me to remember so I try to get everything done by then. As I'm sure you are aware the FATCA filings are done online. I did the 8938 forms first and just used pretty much the same numbers for the FATCA.

Ya know - if you have an account at Bank of America US and you earn interest they send you a statement each year and you report it on your taxes. Do you think the B of A also informs the IRS of you earnings ? I don't know. But if the IRS and SAT have such a tight relationship now I wish they would sit down and agree on a form that would be sent to each of us just like a 1099. Given Mexico's use of Real vs Nominal it is not straight forward at all - especially if you are not a trained accountant. Fortunately the girl we work with at Banamex is.


hunteradvisor


May 26, 2015, 4:16 AM

Post #4 of 17 (6241 views)

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Re: [cuerna1] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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Working on it soon..... We file on the last extension every year in October so this doesn't meet that date unfortunately. As a foreign resident the 1040s are not due until June so if we filed in time as ex-pats it would be just dandy.

http://bsaefiling.fincen.treas.gov/...FIndividualFBAR.html
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

(This post was edited by RickS on May 26, 2015, 6:26 AM)


DavidHF

May 26, 2015, 7:35 AM

Post #5 of 17 (6200 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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My bank is Banco MultiVa, they don't report anything to the USA.


John Shrall

May 26, 2015, 3:24 PM

Post #6 of 17 (6152 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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Out of curiosity, do you know if Multiva not reporting now but plan later or do they intend to be a non-compliant FFI if that's the correct term?

My contact at Actinver says they are not yet reporting balances but plan to do so at some point.

My guess is that Mexican banks agreed to play ball but will drag their feet as long as possible. I've had to write programs in the past to report information to the IRS and other government agencies. The interface specs are lengthy, arcane and extremely difficult to comply with when both parties read English and speak the same banking terminology.

I can't imagine how difficult it's going to be for Mexican banks to provide the data in the proper format with a language barrier. Plus they have no incentive to do so other than threats from the US.

Time will tell.


DigYourself

May 26, 2015, 3:40 PM

Post #7 of 17 (6147 views)

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Re: [John Shrall] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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We have a very inactive account with GBM. We gave them a W-9 when we opened the account. Recently we have received at least three emails warning us that they are reporting to the IRS. I really don't think there is any way of avoiding the exchange of info.


DavidHF

May 26, 2015, 5:01 PM

Post #8 of 17 (6124 views)

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Re: [John Shrall] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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All I know is what they told me. I haven't asked if they will report in the future. Perhaps I should.


DigYourself

May 26, 2015, 5:12 PM

Post #9 of 17 (6120 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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If they report to SAT (which I would suspect they do) I would also suspect that info is passed along to the US.

Please let us know how it goes.


slainte39

May 26, 2015, 10:45 PM

Post #10 of 17 (6076 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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I was told they, Banco Multiva, or any other bank in Mexico, doesn't report anything. It is the Mexican government, probably some division of Hacienda/SAT that does the reporting to the US government, gleaned from the information of the banks customer base that is submitted to Mexican government authorities.


hunteradvisor


May 26, 2015, 11:16 PM

Post #11 of 17 (6071 views)

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Re: [John Shrall] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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The penalty for not filing begins at $10,000. The reality is if you don't file you are gambling that the young, ambitious newly hired IRS agents are not going to eventually find you. I wouldn't take those odds.
Check this out:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/...t_Tax_Compliance_Act
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

(This post was edited by RickS on May 27, 2015, 6:23 AM)


DavidHF

May 28, 2015, 6:05 AM

Post #12 of 17 (5958 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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No need to file if keep less than $10,000USD in Mexico.


YucaLandia


May 28, 2015, 11:55 AM

Post #13 of 17 (5912 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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In Reply To
No need to file if keep less than $10,000USD in Mexico.


The title of this post mixes both FATCA and FBAR/FINCEN - different regulations which have different requirements.

FATCA - the leading TITLE item - by itself has at least 9 different levels of $$ threshold requirements for filing:

(unfortunately, not the simple "$10,000 USD" limit listed in DavidHF's post)

~ FATCA Requirements for Expats with over $50,000 total in Foreign Accounts and Trusts

"

  • Unmarried taxpayers living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at any time during the tax year

  • Married taxpayers filing a joint income tax return and living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $100,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $150,000 at any time during the tax year

  • Married taxpayers filing separate income tax returns and living in the US: The total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $50,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $75,000 at any time during the tax year.

  • Taxpayers living abroad. You are a taxpayer living abroad if:
    • You are a U.S. citizen whose tax home is in a foreign country and you are either a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes the entire tax year, or
    • You are a US citizen or resident, who during a period of 12 consecutive months ending in the tax year is physically present in a foreign country or countries at least 330 days.

If you are a taxpayer living abroad you must file if:
  • You are filing a return other than a joint return and the total value of your specified foreign assets is more than $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $300,000 at any time during the year; or

  • You are filing a joint return and the value of your specified foreign asset is more than $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year. "
================================

Keeping the FATCA requirements separate from FBAR/FINCEN, requires us to report the FBAR/FINCEN requirements separately:

Recent Changes in IRS Requirements for Americans Living Abroad – FBAR and Fideicomisos and FINCEN


"
Since July 1, 2012. FBAR (Foreign Bank and Financial Account Reporting) rules requires Americans with foreign accounts and trusts (including some fideicomisos) worth more than an aggregate $10,000 US dollar value “of all foreign financial accounts (that) exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year” to file annual reports with the Treasury Department. http://www.fincen.gov/...ng/Efiling_FAQs.html and ~ Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) ~ "


Happy Trails,
steve



-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 28, 2015, 12:03 PM)


YucaLandia


May 28, 2015, 12:00 PM

Post #14 of 17 (5909 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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Finally, all of the requirements listed above in the FATCA requirements versus FBAR/FINCEN requirements ... are for US citizens living abroad, and are separate from John Shrall's post about the Mexican bank's requirements.

John Shrall's post above describes how Mexican banks basically have to report any monies they hold/deposit/handle for American citizens.

This means that if you have ever given your Social Security number to a Mexican financial institution/bank, (like in a W-9 or W-8BEN that they can require from us) then your Mexican bank will likely someday soon be reporting your Mexican banking activity information back to the USA - though John points out that interfacing with IRS computers is challenging - and not all Mexican banks are up to speed with that yet - (otherwise they have to withhold 30% of any monies coming into the account),

which all fits with the other posts about the IRS giving US and Foreign Banks a 2 year transition period to come up to speed during 2014 - 2015.

steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 28, 2015, 12:06 PM)


DigYourself

May 28, 2015, 12:50 PM

Post #15 of 17 (5891 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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I am neither a lawyer/accountant nor politician. But I did come across this document :

http://www.treasury.gov/...exico-11-19-2012.pdf

---------------

which at one poiint says :

"Article 4
Application of FATCA to Mexican Financial Institutions
1. Treatment of Reporting Mexican Financial Institutions. Each Reporting Mexican
Financial Institution shall be treated as complying with, and not subject to withholding under,
section 1471 of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code if the Ministry of Finance of Mexico
complies with its obligations under Articles 2 and 3 with respect to such Reporting Mexican
Financial Institution, and the Reporting Mexican Financial Institution, pursuant to Mexican
legislation and administrative guidance:
a) identifies U.S. Reportable Accounts and reports annually to the Mexican
Competent Authority the information required to be reported in subparagraph
2(a) of Article 2 in the time and manner described in Article 3;

....."

-----------

I read that as saying that to be compliant the banks are required to inform SAT and SAT will interface with the IRS.


cbviajero

May 28, 2015, 1:04 PM

Post #16 of 17 (5889 views)

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Re: [cuerna1] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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It took me about 15 minutes to e-file the required forms,what's the big deal?


DigYourself

May 28, 2015, 1:08 PM

Post #17 of 17 (5886 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] FATCA / June 30 deadline for FINCEN filing

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Perhaps our life situations are different.
 
 
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