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jemeta

Dec 11, 2002, 5:18 PM

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Una Palabra

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¡Hola! Estoy aprendiendo español y quiero entender algunas palabras...... posiblemente puede ayudarme. Claro, ahorita solamente me acuerdo una: chavo. ¿Por favor podría alguien la explica a mí? Hay tres o cuatro otras palabras (más comunes) que no entiendo, pero tendré que preguntarle más adelante. Muchas gracias.

Jennifer



lin robinson

Dec 11, 2002, 6:07 PM

Post #2 of 20 (10427 views)

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Re: [jemeta] Una Palabra

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Chavo means "guy" (or "dewd", etc.) Chava means "chick" or whatever is PC these days. Other slang words for muchacho include moro, tipo, cuate. For chava, can also use mora, tipa, ruca, torta.




quevedo

Dec 11, 2002, 6:38 PM

Post #3 of 20 (10406 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Un par de comentarios

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In Reply To
Other slang words for muchacho include moro, tipo, cuate. For chava, can also use mora, tipa, ruca, torta.


Yo no usaría tipa para referirme a una muchacha, ya que esa palabra no se oye muy bien. Tipa tiene un significado que se asocia a personas de baja estofa. En cuanto a ruca, se aplica a mujeres de mayor edad, y torta siento que se refiere a una mujer con la que uno tiene cierta relación de más intimidad: mi torta, mi mujer, mi novia.

Un saludo cordial,

Quevedo


jemeta

Dec 11, 2002, 7:15 PM

Post #4 of 20 (10383 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Un par de comentarios

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¡Por fin! Muchas gracias para su ayuda :)



Jennifer


lin robinson

Dec 11, 2002, 7:33 PM

Post #5 of 20 (10389 views)

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Well, not entirely

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Sorry, but these things tend to vary from place and, expecially, to where one spends one time and who one talks to. In fact, it's pretty widely known in Mexico that ruca does NOT refer just to older women, but to chicks in general, especially girl friends. (As with the American "old lady", meaning girlfriend or wife). It is WIDELY used to mean chicks in general. (e.g. "Vamos a un bar para chupar con unas rucas.") The lower class reference is probably in the mind of the user. Note that the objections to these terms is only to their female forms.
Tipa can be as neutral referring to a female as tipo is in referring to a male.
You don't hear torta as much these days, but it is also used to refer to chicks in general.
There are lots of levels of speech in Mexico, as in any country, and what university dictionaries say is not necessarily what is observed in the street. (Or even the cafeteria of those same universities).
That said, chavo and muchacho are neutral.


Brad.

Dec 11, 2002, 9:27 PM

Post #6 of 20 (10389 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Well, not entirely

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In fact, it's pretty widely known in Mexico that ruca does NOT refer just to older women, but to chicks in general, especially girl friends.


I disagree. Ruca(o) refers to an older person and not chicks in general. Quevedo was right. Now vieja is another matter.


(This post was edited by Brad Smith on Dec 11, 2002, 9:36 PM)


lin robinson

Dec 12, 2002, 12:13 PM

Post #7 of 20 (10362 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] Well, not entirely

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No, as I said, ruca is widely used to mean chicks and, especially girlfriends. The problem here is probably that somebody says "I am in Mexico" or even "I am Mexican" and therefore that "I know how all people talk everywhere in Mexico".
In fact, the area lived in, the age and social status of speakers, linquistic fads, and other factors make it hard for somebody to say somebody else is mistaken when they say that "people use this word in such manner".
Before deciding that something is wrong, you might check around, perhaps consult some of the dictionaries of americanisms and slang. Or even just drop by some pool hall and take a listen.,


Brad.

Dec 12, 2002, 12:40 PM

Post #8 of 20 (10363 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Well, not entirely

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How interesting that my wife and my daughter, 2 generations of native born Mexicans have never heard it used as such. You said "widely" used. Maybe it isn't used as widely used as you may think. My daughter has classmates from all over the country (in fact her best friend is from Maz) and has yet to hear the word used for girlfriend. They are usually pretty hip to slang terms.

The following dictionaries of slang don't list it as a euphomism for "chicks" or "girlfriends".

From the Diccionario breve de mexicanismos

ruco, ruca. adj. Viejo

From Jerga de México:

ruco: (sust. y adj.) viejo. Referido sólo a las personas y animales. Ese ruquito pasa todo el día tomando cerveza en el bar. / Nuestro perico está muy ruco y ya no habla tanto como antes.

Diccionario Americano

ruca-o: (Mx). Palabra despectiva, anciano

El español de méxico has it defined as such:

ruco persona mayor

How about Mexi-Diccionario:

ruco: viejo


REY

Dec 13, 2002, 7:11 AM

Post #9 of 20 (10335 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] Well, not entirely

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Ruca is slang for girlfriend but very "ghetto". It's real meaning is "vieja/viejo" so, "es mi ruca" would mean "es mi vieja" which sounds very disrespectful, in my opinion Pay attention to some movies and novelas...the punks and gente de menos categoria are the ones who mostly seem to use it.


Mereja

Dec 13, 2002, 10:55 AM

Post #10 of 20 (10328 views)

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Re: [REY] Well, not entirely

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I am not a very good joke teller, but I can't resist. Un borrachito en el D.F andaba en la calle y un carro le pego. Acercaron muchas personas y gritaron, hablan al medico y hablan a la ambulancia. Una senora decia, dale un traguito. El borrachito dijo, "hagale caso a la ruuuuca."

It has to be said with an accent from the D.F.


javo

Dec 13, 2002, 5:53 PM

Post #11 of 20 (10318 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Una Palabra

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Well, Spanish usage depends on where you live in Mexico. In some parts of the country you hear things people from other Mexican regions will never say... Anyway, as a Mexican national, native of the Yucatan but living in Mexico City, I can tell you I have never heard anyone using the word "moro" for "guy". It might be only a word used in some parts of Northern Mexico but I almost sure it is not used in the Southern or Central states.

Ruco and ruca mean "old man" and "old woman", these words never refer to young people. Apart from that, depending on the context, ruco and ruca may be considered rude and even derogatory.

"viejo" and "vieja" are used informally for "husband" and "wife", but sometimes also for "father" and "mother" (in that case we say: viejecita).

Chavo is a very Mexican word. In other spanish-speaking countries you can hear "chaval" "tío" (spain), lolo (Chile), chamo (Venezuela), che (argentina. Yes, "Che Guevara" means simply the "guy Guevara"), etc.

Cuate is slang for "friend" and is only used in Mexico. Youngsters could also use "cuata" for a woman, as in "esa cuata está bien lurias" (That chick is totally out of her mind).


quevedo

Dec 13, 2002, 6:16 PM

Post #12 of 20 (10315 views)

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Re: [javo] Morro

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I have never heard anyone using the word "moro" for "guy".


Morro, morra, morrito, morrita.

Un saludo cordial,

Quevedo


lin robinson

Dec 13, 2002, 6:57 PM

Post #13 of 20 (10308 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] Well, not entirely

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Since you know that "vieja" refers to "chicks" or "old lady" in the conjugal sense, your quoting of ruca=vieja sort of makes my point. You might have missed my mention of social class as a determinant of usage...this might not be used in fresa schools, I have no idea.

At the border, and in Chicano culture, the use of "ruca" to mean "old lady" or "chick" is unescapable. Another synonym for "vieja" being "jaina", a word known of in Mexico but no really used here.

Next time you might try Mexican Slang 101 next time. (-:

.


lin robinson

Dec 13, 2002, 6:59 PM

Post #14 of 20 (10311 views)

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Oops. Thanks

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Yes. Morro, not moro. Sorry about the slip


Brad.

Dec 13, 2002, 9:53 PM

Post #15 of 20 (10307 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Well, not entirely

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In Reply To


Next time you might try Mexican Slang 101 next time. (-:

.


Why would I rely on your book as an authoritive source on Mexican slang, Cabo Gallo?


lin robinson

Dec 14, 2002, 12:40 PM

Post #16 of 20 (10295 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] Well, not entirely

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Apart from the usual lack of humor in your response, Marlin, please note that I am not suggesting any "only", merely an alternative. I am aware of your antagonism to alternatives and fondness for "only one in town" stuff, but I think most readers would see me offering another source, not a sole source.


jturpen

Dec 14, 2002, 7:31 PM

Post #17 of 20 (10289 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Una Palabra

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Lin ...



Ruca is not a word that I have used ... so I asked three people: Emelio Sincione from Aguascaliente (he is the husband of a lady with whom I work), Olivia Rubal from Hermosillo (she manages our favorite restaurant) and Margaret an old friend (works for the Idaho Migrant Council). Each indicated that ruca would not be a polite expression for a lady for whom you had respect. It sounds like a word of insult. The summarized interpretation would be "my bitch".

Now I do not say that everyone would have that intention in the usage but that is what they have indicated. Years ago when I played college football I would hear expressions used that within the confines of the team would be fine (all of us lived the same experiences). But out in public, the use of some of these terms would hurt others unnecessarily.

Maybe this is an answer for the word ruca where you live?


Joe


Brad.

Dec 15, 2002, 5:16 AM

Post #18 of 20 (10268 views)

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Re: [lin robinson] Well, not entirely

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What antagoism? I offered 5 different definitions from dictionaries on americanismos as per your suggestion plus the knowledge of 2 native spanish speakers in my family. Is that what you mean as a sole source?

Add that to Quevedo's and a few other posters POV and it doesn't appear that ruca = novia is as widely used as you say.

Hasta nunca Lin Robinson aka Cabo Bob, el Gallo ,Hunter S Thompson wannabe or whatever.


Mereja

Dec 15, 2002, 2:46 PM

Post #19 of 20 (10263 views)

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Re: [jturpen] Una Palabra

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My husband uses this for his mother-in-law (but not to her face.) Now I know why.


lin robinson

Dec 16, 2002, 1:52 PM

Post #20 of 20 (10269 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] Well, not entirely

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No, the "only source" concept was something you cooked up when I added another dictionary to your list. If you read some of the other posters here you might get the impression that the word has wider usage than you are aware of.

Just by the by, "Mexican Slang 101" (and the similar, but more expensive version sold on Amazon.com) has sold between 50,000 to 60,000 copies. I don't think it has to beg for a place on your list.

"Wide" is pretty much limited by one's own perception, I would say. But perhaps I should have qualified my comments by saying that it isn't polite (more like "broad"). But it is definitely used in any case where one would use vieja....just not by everybody.

And speaking of "broad"...I think it's a little narrowminded to make inferences about people. I don't even play pool, for one thing. And my life has been spent much mostly in societies other than North American. I mention this just a suggestion that leaping to conclusions is a silly way to get exercise.
 
 
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