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scott

Dec 5, 2002, 12:20 AM

Post #1 of 21 (5381 views)

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....that they call themselves that....

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How would you correctly say this phrase. The context is someone saying "Its wrong for Americans to call themselves gringo". How would you say: "Yes, its stupid that they call themselves that"? I said:

Pero "gringo", sí, es tonto que a sí mismas se llaman esa.

Thats my best guess. How do you say it correctly?

Thanks

esperanza

Dec 5, 2002, 5:30 AM

Post #2 of 21 (5249 views)

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Re: [scott] ....that they call themselves that....

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I think it would be better said, "Si, qué tonto que de ellos mismos se dicen eso." Quevedo tú qué dices?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Dec 5, 2002, 5:31 AM)

Rox Anne

Dec 5, 2002, 7:34 AM

Post #3 of 21 (5189 views)

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Re: [scott] ....that they call themselves that....

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Si, es tonto que se llaman a si mismos asi !!

Brad.

Dec 5, 2002, 7:35 AM

Post #4 of 21 (5203 views)

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Re: [esperanza] ....that they call themselves that....

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In Reply To

I think it would be better said, "Si, qué tonto que de ellos mismos se dicen eso." Quevedo tú qué dices?

Does it need the preposition "de"?

"Si, qué tonto que ellos mismos se dicen eso."

I (cada quien su forma) would use "asi" in place of "eso"

esperanza

Dec 5, 2002, 9:35 AM

Post #5 of 21 (5194 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] ....that they call themselves that....

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Quevedooooooooo...tú qué dices? Digo yo que hay muchas maneras de decir cualquier cosita. También iba yo a poner 'así' al final pero lo deje con 'eso' para dejar lo que dijo el OP...o sea, 'that' en vez de 'thus'. Y creo que sí lleva la 'de' para decir 'of themselves'. Platícanos, Quevedito...por favorcito.

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jackbe

Dec 5, 2002, 11:57 AM

Post #6 of 21 (5178 views)

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Re: [scott] ....that they call themselves that....

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No es tonto que se llaman gringos, porque son gringos.

REY

Dec 5, 2002, 12:45 PM

Post #7 of 21 (5171 views)

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Re: [esperanza] ....that they call themselves that....

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"Yes, its stupid that they call themselves that" se puede traducir de varias maneras.

si, es estupido que ellos se llamen asi.

si, es estupido que se llamen ellos asi.

si, es estupido que asi se llamen ellos.

si, es estupido que se llamen asi ellos.

si, que se llamen asi ellos es estupido.

si, que se llamen ellos asi es estupido.

si, que ellos se llamen asi es estupido.

si, que asi se llamen ellos es estupido. (any more?)

my two cents **wondering if there's any change coming** :Þ

Rey

(This post was edited by REY on Dec 5, 2002, 12:48 PM)

REY

Dec 5, 2002, 12:46 PM

Post #8 of 21 (5173 views)

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Re: [jackbe] ....that they call themselves that....

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"Its wrong for Americans to call themselves gringo"

Si es tonto. Yo soy Americano, pero no soy gringo. "America" cubre Norte America, Mexico, Centro America y Sur America.

Todo gringo se puede llamar Americano, pero no todos los Americanos se pueden llamar gringos.

Rey

esperanza

Dec 5, 2002, 2:40 PM

Post #9 of 21 (5159 views)

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Re: [REY] ....that they call themselves that....

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Well Rey...I guess you could say 'estupido', but I sure wouldn't...it's a much more derogatory term than it appears to be, and one that would be way more offensive than I would want to be in most any situation. Tonto is more respectful, so is menso.

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Mereja

Dec 5, 2002, 7:42 PM

Post #10 of 21 (5146 views)

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Re: [esperanza] ....that they call themselves that....

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I agree with you Esperanza. All those who are learning spanish out there, stay as far away from that word as possible. Don't even refer to yourself as being that way. It is very disrespectful. If you use it, even if you are not calling someone that, you may be making enemies. With our children, my husband treats it as a cuss word, which our children are not allowed to use. My brother is now almost an enemy of my husband's because he said teasingly, "what are you stupid or something?"

scott

Dec 5, 2002, 9:28 PM

Post #11 of 21 (5143 views)

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Re: [REY] ....that they call themselves that....

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No es cierto. Son americanos los ciudadanos de los Estados Unidos. Una persona canadiense no es americana. El continente se llama "America del Norte", y por eso, la gente de allá es norteamericana. America significa los Estados Unidos y nada más. Nos enseñan así en... America del Norte... que en este sentido significa Canada y los Estados Unidos. Es verdad que "Norte America" tiene dos o tres significados, pero "America" solamente tiene uno.

Son más extraños en español los significados de "americano" y "norteamericano". Crees que no soy norteamericano, porque soy canadiense?

Que debemos llamar los gringos? USians?

REY

Dec 6, 2002, 8:03 AM

Post #12 of 21 (5123 views)

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Re: [Mereja] ....that they call themselves that....

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Well, if you're learning spanish, yeah, stay away from that word. My first language is spanish, I've never heard that "estupido" is a cus word, that's just plain ESTUPIDO to me. I've heard it all the time in tv, radio and just about everywhere. I see the severity of the word as the same be it english or spanish. If you're stupid in english, what does that mean? You're stupid, plain and simple. (look up the meaning) Why try to be polite when you're trying to say that someone or something is stupid?

Eso es estupido. El es estupido. No two ways about it.

Just trying to be polite? This reminds me of what my pastor said about political correctness...."why try to be politically correct when you can just be right?" The only word that I know that is "bad" is "pendejo", which can be taken as a synonym for "stupid".

Think someone will give you a bad look if you use the word "estupido" in public? heck no.

Rey

mexhapati

Dec 6, 2002, 8:43 AM

Post #13 of 21 (5133 views)

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Did you flunk geography?

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There are two continents in the western hemisphere North and South America - in between is Central America. In my elementary school in a little town in Minnesota we were taught that Mexico, the US, and Canada formed North America. Thus the people that live in any of the americas are americans, amigo ........aaaaaaand Mexicans and Canadians are North Americans as well as los Estado-Unidenses. Come to grips with it, you guys don't have a patent on the word American. Why would you want to? I mean some 16th century Italian map maker's name? Big deal.

REY

Dec 6, 2002, 8:48 AM

Post #14 of 21 (5122 views)

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Re: [scott] ....that they call themselves that....

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from merriam-webster (www.m-w.com)

Main Entry: Amer·i·ca
Pronunciation: &-'mer-&-k&
Usage: geographical name
1 either continent (N. America or S. America) of the western hemisphere
2 or the Amer·i·cas /-k&z/ the lands of the western hemisphere including N., Central, & S. America & the W. Indies

USians???? hahaha...que absurdo:Þ

Rey

REY

Dec 6, 2002, 9:30 AM

Post #15 of 21 (5111 views)

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Re: [oro] Did you flunk geography?

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HEHEHE...EXAAAACTLY what I say ;)

and that's why it would be estupido for an "american" to call him/herself gringo.

hasta luego!

quevedo

Dec 6, 2002, 10:16 AM

Post #16 of 21 (5119 views)

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Re: "Yes, its stupid that they call themselves that."

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Creo que ya se ha puesto aquí en el foro más de una buena traducción para la frase.

"Sí, es estúpido que se llamen así a sí mismos" me parece que expresa bien la idea.

Un saludo cordial,

Quevedo

P.D.: Una disculpa por no responder antes, estimada Esperanza, pero andaba de viaje. Quevedo.

scott

Dec 6, 2002, 12:59 PM

Post #17 of 21 (5104 views)

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Re: [oro] Did you flunk geography?

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Thanks everyone for your suggestions on this. My book "Spanish Grammer" by Oxford University Press is good, but only briefly mentions the phrase 'a sí misma" etc, and doesn't really explain it. I notice that quevedo is the only person who used sí mismos in his suggestion.

I don't understand if the mismo is supposed to agree with the subject or not. I assume yes, but I'm not sure..

As a Canadian, America can have exclusive rights to that word, it doesn't really bother me in any way.... In Canada they teach we are North Americans. In Spanish that means USians. Thats why I think you guys are backwards calling Americans "North Americans". What am I? Los Canadienses no son norteamericanos?

mexhapati

Dec 6, 2002, 6:35 PM

Post #18 of 21 (5091 views)

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Re: [scott] Did you flunk geography?

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You're right, by my own logic, then, we Mexicans should consider ourselves North Americans too.

Gringos are not necessarily just US citizens in the Mexican's mind eye. Any foreigner, especially light skinned, blue eyed types will be referred to as gringos...whether they're europeans, asians or whatever.

I agree, the name America is the least important aspect of all this.

Mereja

Dec 7, 2002, 12:13 AM

Post #19 of 21 (5080 views)

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Re: [REY] ....that they call themselves that....

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Maybe it depends on where you come from. In some families it is ok to pick your nose too, but that doesn't mean it is good manners. It is not a cuss word, but if you use it jokingly, you may make enemies. I guess if you really don't like somebody and think their stupid you can call them that. Then it really doesn't matter, cause you don't like them anyway. All I was saying is that in spanish it is a harsher word and it is not used by most Mexicans so freely as it is in english. Maybe that has not been your experience.

Just a question, were you raised in Mexico?

Jim in Cancun

Dec 7, 2002, 8:39 AM

Post #20 of 21 (5085 views)

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Comments from the provincia

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1.- The word gringo was imported to this area by people from the other parts of Mexico. The more common word out here is "gabacho" and is used for about every non-Spanish-speaking, lightskinned foreigner. A difference is that a European and an American can be gabachos but only an American can be a gringo. The word is also used to refer to many things "American" such as "una película gringa" or "la vida gringa" or "la comida gringa", etc. Of course the word "yanqui" is used frequently by people from South America and in some countries--Costa Rica for example--"americano" is used.

2.- I was also surprised that our moderator used the word "estúpido" as I have always been told and have learned by listening that that word--although used lightly in English-- is much more insulting in Spanish and that the better word to use is "tonto".

3.- As for which words to use--my rule is--as always--"when in Rome...." or whatever is currently politically correct in the country, language and region where you are speaking and with the people to whom you are apeaking. Examples:

He is an American=Él es norteamericano. ("Estadounidense/estadunidense" is also used but doesn´t seem to be as common.)

The fact that:

1.- Both Mexico and the U.S. are North American Countries (so citizens of both could logically be called "norteamericanos" or that

2.- Both countries are officially called "The United States of..." so that citizens of both countries could logically be called "estadounidenses"

or any other logical, debatable factor aside--custom and political correctness are the guides. IMHO

esperanza

Dec 7, 2002, 11:37 AM

Post #21 of 21 (5093 views)

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Re: [Jim in Cancun] Comments from the provincia

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Your point #2 also surprised me. My neighbors and other friends would fall over in a faint to hear anybody called estúpido, whereas there are a whole lot of other, theoretically worse, words that would never faze them.

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