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Bennie García

Jan 1, 2014, 2:41 PM

Post #26 of 68 (4370 views)

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Re: [Rolly] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Just think, J. Edgar had to spend his whole life in the closet all the time he was fervently persecuting minorities. Talk about moral values in the 30s!!


YucaLandia


Jan 1, 2014, 3:08 PM

Post #27 of 68 (4362 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Just think, J. Edgar had to spend his whole life in the closet all the time he was fervently persecuting minorities. Talk about moral values in the 30s!!


Bennie,
Defining homosexuality as immorality, and defining closeted homosexuals as immoral is ugly.

If you had ever lived around farms or ranches, you'd know that herd animals include homosexual males at roughly the same %'s as humans. Are we supposed to also think that gay steers are immoral too?

Personally criticizing and demeaning humans for being born homosexual makes as much sense as demeaning someone for being Native American or German or Hispanic. Demeaning gays as immoral for staying closeted is similarly ugly, and ignores the realities of how dangerous it was to be openly gay in the USA.

Próspero Año Nuevo!
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 1, 2014, 3:21 PM)


stevebrtx

Jan 1, 2014, 3:08 PM

Post #28 of 68 (4359 views)

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Re: [Rolly] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Rolly, it's not a problem with what you want to do with your body - JUST DON'T SEND ME THE BILL!. As the latest Ocare bill demands, my Gson must pay for abortion - sorry, not on my tab, or his.


Bennie García

Jan 1, 2014, 3:14 PM

Post #29 of 68 (4348 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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I didn't define homosexuality as immoral. How you could interpret that from my post is known only to you.


Rolly


Jan 1, 2014, 3:14 PM

Post #30 of 68 (4348 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Steve, Many red states are putting all sorts of restrictions on women and their doctors. It has nothing to with who pays. It's about denial of services.

Rolly Pirate


stevebrtx

Jan 1, 2014, 3:15 PM

Post #31 of 68 (4344 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Bennie, and this is my last, you're typical of someone wanting to avoid dealing with the obvious reality which is the problem. You want to bring up a hundred or thousand minimal and subordinate issues and debate them one at a time even though they are all - and I repeat ALL - covered under the simple "morality clause". I saw today there are literally 40,000 new laws going into effect Jan 1 across the US. There is an old Chinese saying something to the effect that "in a moral society there is no need for laws" - think about it.


Bennie García

Jan 1, 2014, 3:21 PM

Post #32 of 68 (4339 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Talk about someone with a very thin grasp on reality.


YucaLandia


Jan 1, 2014, 3:30 PM

Post #33 of 68 (4335 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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I didn't define homosexuality as immoral. How you could interpret that from my post is known only to you.


Benny,
Hoover's sexual orientation had nothing to do with his illegal and immoral persecution of civil rights leaders, persecution of anti-Vietnam war activists, et al. There is no good reason to relate Hoover's supposed sexual orientation in the same breath with his immorality.

You unnecessarily injected Hoover's (gossiped - unproven) sexual orientation in direct relation to Hoover's decades of illegal and immoral actions.

Dragging red-herrings of baiting people over homosexuality is little different than race-baiting. I identify the ugliness, because it is important for people of conscience to speak-out against both.

Gringal's point about the value of knowing history fits this issue. Many people in both Mexico and the USA have become jaded about their governments, due to the decades of crummy, corrupt, and illegal behaviors of leaders like J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon, Clinton (lying to a Grand Jury), et al. If the government leaders of Mexico and the USA are openly immoral and corrupt, then what is to be expected of susceptible citizens?
Happy Trails,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 1, 2014, 3:38 PM)


Bennie García

Jan 1, 2014, 3:45 PM

Post #34 of 68 (4329 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Get real, dude. I pointed out the irony of Hoover being a homosexual during a period of time another poster claims to have been a morally superior period. Society at the time deemed homosexuality as immoral. Hoover was the man in charge of persecuting people guilty of morals violations. Today, and in a period deemed morally inferior by another poster, a homosexual person could quite possibly be named the director of the FBI.

Times change. Some of us think for the better.


YucaLandia


Jan 1, 2014, 4:03 PM

Post #35 of 68 (4326 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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I think you have confused irony with immorality.

Your proposal that Hoover was a homosexual, part of a minority, might make his persecution of Black Civil Rights leaders ironic.
Hoover's proposed sexual orientation had nothing to do with the immorality of his illegal actions.

There is no reason to link sexual orientation with morality.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 1, 2014, 7:50 PM)


Bennie García

Jan 1, 2014, 4:13 PM

Post #36 of 68 (4318 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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There is no reason to link sexual orientation with morality.
steve


I didn't link sexual orientation with immorality. Stop trying to make it out as if I had. i pointed out that it was considered immoral in the 30s. Nothing, more, nothing less. And even in today's society it is viewed as immoral by a large segment of society. Recent controversy about some redneck's view on the subject and the reluctance by many to accept gay marriage make that obvious.

So quit trying to fabricate a debate on something we both hold similar views.


stevebrtx

Jan 1, 2014, 4:39 PM

Post #37 of 68 (4312 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Bennie, enjoy your reality 2014, delusional that it may be, after nearly 8 years of exchanging barbs, we part friends.


Bennie García

Jan 1, 2014, 4:47 PM

Post #38 of 68 (4303 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Sorry, bucko. I choose my own friends.


johanson


Jan 1, 2014, 4:57 PM

Post #39 of 68 (4299 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Come on folks, let's just agree to disagree and not get angry with those who debate with you and sometimes win.
Mom was a liberal and Dad a conservative and they both got along just fine. I wish we could all do the same. Besides, don't get mad at Steve. Rumor has it that he controls the weather in Ajijic and Chapala. Maybe if we were nicer to him he would bring the good weather back. PRETTY PLEASE STEVE )
Happy New Year say I watching the Rose Bowl game. GO STANFORD


smokesilver

Jan 1, 2014, 7:49 PM

Post #40 of 68 (4272 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] things haven't changed in terms of morality and/or justice permeating society

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Well said and 'dead on'. That same bunch wants to live in a democracy...as long as their candidate wins.


donemry

Jan 2, 2014, 5:50 AM

Post #41 of 68 (4250 views)

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Re: [Intercasa] Are drugs really the root problem?

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So when Prohibition ended, did the gangs and bootleggers switch to legitimate buisness or did they just remain criminals?

Have any of you who agressively favor legalization had to deal with a loved one addicted to drugs?


yucatandreamer


Jan 2, 2014, 6:14 AM

Post #42 of 68 (4248 views)

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Re: [donemry] Are drugs really the root problem?

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Yes and I would have preferred that my drug addicted loved one been able to legally purchase the drugs and therefore be less at risk from danger and disease. I do not see where having drugs be illegal has stopped those who want them from acquiring them. However it has stigmatized a lot of people, caused uncounted deaths from overdoses and disease, helped with the rise of drug cartels and most likely prevented many from receiving the help they need.
If drugs were legal, those people who were addicted could be offered rehab with the profits from sales and money could be channeled into education.


Bennie García

Jan 2, 2014, 7:35 AM

Post #43 of 68 (4233 views)

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Re: [donemry] Are drugs really the root problem?

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So when Prohibition ended, did the gangs and bootleggers switch to legitimate buisness or did they just remain criminals?

Have any of you who agressively favor legalization had to deal with a loved one addicted to drugs?


Can you say Las Vegas? Some did some didn't. But what is your point? Are you arguing that prohibition should have continued?

Yes, We have had to deal with addiction to illegal drugs by loved ones. . But let's also add to that alcoholism. Or is an addiction to a legal substance different?


cbviajero

Jan 2, 2014, 1:05 PM

Post #44 of 68 (4191 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Are drugs really the root problem?

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I doubt very much that either the US or Mexico will be legalizing drugs like meth,cocaine or heroin in the near future and personally speaking I think it would be a very bad idea anyway.
As far as the increased violence by the cartels goes, maybe the Mexican government should just go back to allocating the "plazas" like they did for so many years...


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Jan 2, 2014, 1:07 PM)


Bennie García

Jan 2, 2014, 1:23 PM

Post #45 of 68 (4183 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Are drugs really the root problem?

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I doubt very much that either the US or Mexico will be legalizing drugs like meth,cocaine or heroin in the near future and personally speaking I think it would be a very bad idea anyway.
As far as the increased violence by the cartels goes, maybe the Mexican government should just go back to allocating the "plazas" like they did for so many years...


Mexico has already decriminalized small amounts of cocaine and heroin.


cbviajero

Jan 2, 2014, 1:39 PM

Post #46 of 68 (4178 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Are drugs really the root problem?

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In Reply To
I doubt very much that either the US or Mexico will be legalizing drugs like meth,cocaine or heroin in the near future and personally speaking I think it would be a very bad idea anyway.
As far as the increased violence by the cartels goes, maybe the Mexican government should just go back to allocating the "plazas" like they did for so many years...


Mexico has already decriminalized small amounts of cocaine and heroin.

And where can those be purchased legally?


Bennie García

Jan 2, 2014, 3:19 PM

Post #47 of 68 (4155 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Are drugs really the root problem?

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I doubt very much that either the US or Mexico will be legalizing drugs like meth,cocaine or heroin in the near future and personally speaking I think it would be a very bad idea anyway.
As far as the increased violence by the cartels goes, maybe the Mexican government should just go back to allocating the "plazas" like they did for so many years...


Mexico has already decriminalized small amounts of cocaine and heroin.

And where can those be purchased legally?


They can't. Yet. But just as with pot, first comes decriminalization. But you knew that.


cbviajero

Jan 2, 2014, 4:01 PM

Post #48 of 68 (4147 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Are drugs really the root problem?

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They can't. Yet. But just as with pot, first comes decriminalization. But you knew that.

Yes Bennie,I knew that,I also know that there's a huge difference between legalizing pot as opposed to other seriously destructive drugs like meth,cocaine and heroin,it's not going to happen anytime soon.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Jan 2, 2014, 4:22 PM)


Bennie García

Jan 2, 2014, 4:29 PM

Post #49 of 68 (4134 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Are drugs really the root problem?

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In Reply To

They can't. Yet. But just as with pot, first comes decriminalization. But you knew that.

Yes Bennie,I knew that,I also know that there's a huge difference between legalizing pot as opposed to other seriously destructive drugs like meth,cocaine and heroin,it's not going to happen anytime soon.


No one will argue that. But it still seems odd that substances that weren't considered harmful for centuries were all of a sudden detrimental to society.


richmx2


Jan 2, 2014, 4:30 PM

Post #50 of 68 (4131 views)

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Re: [Intercasa] Are drugs really the root problem?

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Unregulated capitalism, not "moral fiber" or "a lifestyle of easy money", is the problem. Agricultural drugs are no different than any other export commodity... coffee, sugar, bananas, palm oil, etc. ... all of which depend on cheap and exploitable labor as well as control of land and water resources. I really don't care about the "moral fiber" of the consumer nations, but am much more concerned abut the "easy money" accruing in the consumer nations, that rightly should be going to the producers. And, whether those particular crops are the best use of scarce resources like water is not being asked, when it is of vital importance to the nation, and to the rural producers.

A lot of media attention has been focused on iron ore being exported to China by gangsters. That the U.S. wants drugs and the Chinese want iron-ore, it's the unregulated gangsterism and failure to protect the rights of producers and labor that is the problem, not the product.


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