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esperanza

Nov 21, 2013, 9:51 PM

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More From Michoacán (in English)

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http://www.vocativ.com/...argamel-rapes-kills/

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com










Henriette

Nov 22, 2013, 12:56 AM

Post #2 of 42 (6708 views)

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Re: [esperanza] More From Michoacán (in English)

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Thanks for posting this interesting and informative article. Good for them!


Brian

Nov 22, 2013, 10:29 AM

Post #3 of 42 (6666 views)

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Re: [esperanza] More From Michoacán (in English)

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When I first saw this article, I thought it must be El Dia de Los Santos Inocentes a month early.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...with-templarios.html


(This post was edited by RickS on Nov 22, 2013, 2:04 PM)


La Isla


Nov 22, 2013, 10:39 AM

Post #4 of 42 (6660 views)

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Re: [esperanza] More From Michoacán (in English)

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Good for the Grupos de Autodefensa! At the same time, the need for them to combat the narco forces on their own is an indication of how much law and order is absent from the Tierra Caliente in Michoacán. It makes me fear for Mexico's future.


esperanza

Nov 22, 2013, 3:44 PM

Post #5 of 42 (6631 views)

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Re: [La Isla] More From Michoacán (in English)

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La Isla, if it were only JUST the absence of law and order in the Tierra Caliente. We live a very protected life in the DF. Most of Mexico--estimates run from 70 to 90%--is controlled by the narcotraficantes.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









chicois8

Nov 22, 2013, 4:29 PM

Post #6 of 42 (6622 views)

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Re: [La Isla] More From Michoacán (in English)

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Although I was not alive at the time, Mexico reminds me of life in Chicago of the 30's...Crime, corruption, extortion, drugs instead of liquor, and a police dept. that lets demonstrations block highways for days and weeks...Isla,do think has a bright future?.
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


La Isla


Nov 22, 2013, 4:39 PM

Post #7 of 42 (6618 views)

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Re: [chicois8] More From Michoacán (in English)

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Although I was not alive at the time, Mexico reminds me of life in Chicago of the 30's...Crime, corruption, extortion, drugs instead of liquor, and a police dept. that lets demonstrations block highways for days and weeks...Isla,do think has a bright future?.


I wasn't alive in the 1930s either, but I remember watching The Untouchables on TV. But Chicago is one city, while Mexico's problems are nationwide. At the moment, I don't feel very optimistic about the future of the country I'm living in.


cbviajero

Nov 22, 2013, 4:45 PM

Post #8 of 42 (6617 views)

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Re: [esperanza] More From Michoacán (in English)

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La Isla, if it were only JUST the absence of law and order in the Tierra Caliente. We live a very protected life in the DF. Most of Mexico--estimates run from 70 to 90%--is controlled by the narcotraficantes.

In what way is 70 to 90 percent of Mexico is controlled by narcotraficantes???


chicois8

Nov 22, 2013, 4:49 PM

Post #9 of 42 (6614 views)

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Re: [La Isla] More From Michoacán (in English)

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I was not meaning you were alive in the 30's either, I live in a tourist beach town and the other I observed a young man counting the number of kilos of shrimp sold at a street stall so their % would be correct...que lastima...
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California

(This post was edited by chicois8 on Nov 22, 2013, 4:49 PM)


TigerTonio


Nov 23, 2013, 4:49 AM

Post #10 of 42 (6579 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] More From Michoacán (in English)

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In what way is 70 to 90 percent of Mexico is controlled by narcotraficantes???


Aside from the control of various offices of government, I'd say that the majority of this activity stems from extortion. And it might be easy to say that this doesn't affect us directly, but it does; the cost that the vendors are forced to pay is passed down to us, the consumers.

And La Isla, Esperanza is correct in that we do live a very protected life here in Mexico City. Having lived in both worlds for the past seven years, I can personally attest to this fact. But please don't give up hope.


esperanza

Nov 23, 2013, 5:34 AM

Post #11 of 42 (6571 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] More From Michoacán (in English)

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In what way is 70 to 90 percent of Mexico is controlled by narcotraficantes???


Aside from the control of various offices of government, I'd say that the majority of this activity stems from extortion. And it might be easy to say that this doesn't affect us directly, but it does; the cost that the vendors are forced to pay is passed down to us, the consumers.

Thank you, TigerTonio. Extortion and intimidation.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









cbviajero

Nov 23, 2013, 7:06 AM

Post #12 of 42 (6552 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] More From Michoacán (in English)

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It seems to me that stating that 70 to 90 percent of Mexico is controlled by narcos is a bit of an overstatement.Affected maybe,but not controlled.The situation in Michoacan and some other states is not the way things are in most of the country.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Nov 23, 2013, 7:38 AM)


La Isla


Nov 23, 2013, 7:45 AM

Post #13 of 42 (6542 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] More From Michoacán (in English)

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In what way is 70 to 90 percent of Mexico is controlled by narcotraficantes???


Aside from the control of various offices of government, I'd say that the majority of this activity stems from extortion. And it might be easy to say that this doesn't affect us directly, but it does; the cost that the vendors are forced to pay is passed down to us, the consumers.

And La Isla, Esperanza is correct in that we do live a very protected life here in Mexico City. Having lived in both worlds for the past seven years, I can personally attest to this fact. But please don't give up hope.


You've lived in "both worlds". Those worlds would be Mexico City and the rest of the country? Wow, you certainly get around!


playaboy

Nov 23, 2013, 7:48 AM

Post #14 of 42 (6541 views)

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Re: [esperanza] More From Michoacán (in English)

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La Isla, if it were only JUST the absence of law and order in the Tierra Caliente. We live a very protected life in the DF. Most of Mexico--estimates run from 70 to 90%--is controlled by the narcotraficantes.


There is no law and order in all of Mexico, only an appearance of control. The general population is caught between the various mafia's, the corrupt police, corrupt military and corrupt government officials. There really is no difference between any of them.

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-mayors-20131121,0,7050172.story#axzz2lTvi9hxn

As we are witnessing in Michoacan, the Mexican people don't stand a chance unless they have AK-47's too. The Mexican people need the "right to bear arms" and be able to defend themselves.


TigerTonio


Nov 23, 2013, 8:02 AM

Post #15 of 42 (6539 views)

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Re: [La Isla] More From Michoacán (in English)

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You've lived in "both worlds". Those worlds would be Mexico City and the rest of the country? Wow, you certainly get around!


Ha! Sometimes, I feel like I live in an isolated, insulated, magical little kingdom here in La Condesa.


(This post was edited by TigerTonio on Nov 23, 2013, 8:02 AM)


La Isla


Nov 23, 2013, 8:17 AM

Post #16 of 42 (6526 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] More From Michoacán (in English)

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La Condesa isn't as isolated from reality as some of the more exclusive parts of Mexico City like Polanco and the various Lomas colonias. In colonia Cuauhtémoc I'm not as isolated from Mexico's problems as you are, thanks to the "maestros" and their frequent (and frequently annoying) marches, rallies and demonstrations often taking place along Reforma. But they seem to be losing steam (¡ojalá!) and hopefully will be gone by Christmas.


(This post was edited by La Isla on Nov 23, 2013, 8:26 AM)


CozICan

Nov 23, 2013, 8:20 AM

Post #17 of 42 (6525 views)

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Re: [TigerTonio] More From Michoacán (in English)

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I am very fortunite to live on the Isla de Cozumel which is a part of the 10 to 30% of Mexico that is not controlled by the narcotraficantes. Yes we have a few problems and we have had a few Narco related executions on the island over the last few years, mostly criminals trying to hide out from other criminals but it does not bother most of us that are not involved in the trade. Every day I look up at the sky and say out loud " Thank you God for allowing me to live on Cozumel ".


cbviajero

Nov 23, 2013, 11:51 AM

Post #18 of 42 (6502 views)

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Re: [playaboy] More From Michoacán (in English)

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As we are witnessing in Michoacan, the Mexican people don't stand a chance unless they have AK-47's too..

The vast majority of Mexicans don't live in places like the Tierra Caliente and don't need to have AK/47s.Relaxing Mexico's gun laws would be a big mistake IMO.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Nov 23, 2013, 12:08 PM)


yucatandreamer


Nov 23, 2013, 12:34 PM

Post #19 of 42 (6487 views)

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Re: [CozICan] More From Michoacán (in English)

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How is it, do you think, that Cozumel has escaped the extortion and crime that I understand is rampant in Playa del Carmen? Is is that it is an island or are you possibly just not aware of the businesses having to pay "protection? As a visitor to Playa and Cozumel, I have never felt the presence of the Zetas or any other group, but then I have never personally run up against narcotraficantes or any crime cartel in Cancun either.

Unfortunately most of the criminal activity is not the be-headings and gang on gang violence that makes the news but the extortion and threats aimed at small business owners. We extranjeros rarely hear of this sort of crime and can go about our lives in blissful ignorance--for now.


CozICan

Nov 23, 2013, 12:46 PM

Post #20 of 42 (6482 views)

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Re: [yucatandreamer] More From Michoacán (in English)

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yucatandreamer... I don't know how to answer your question. I have lived here full time for 7 years and have many Mexican Friends, many of them business owners. If that is going on to a large degree I am sure I would hear about it. There may be some going on but I don't think it is to any large scale. I know a few cases that hit the news about extortion of businesses but it turned out to be a couple of punks pretending to be members of a drug cartel.

I do think being an Island helps us and also we have a large Military Presence here, Navy, Army and Air force. We also have a High Security Prison on the Island, it is way over capacity. It all helps.


yucatandreamer


Nov 23, 2013, 12:52 PM

Post #21 of 42 (6478 views)

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Re: [CozICan] More From Michoacán (in English)

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Being an island with a large military presence may very well help. As a criminal trying to get away I imagine waiting for a ferry would be problematic and very nerve wracking . It is a lovely place and I hope it always stays that way.


playaboy

Nov 24, 2013, 8:26 AM

Post #22 of 42 (6427 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] More From Michoacán (in English)

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As we are witnessing in Michoacan, the Mexican people don't stand a chance unless they have AK-47's too..

The vast majority of Mexicans don't live in places like the Tierra Caliente and don't need to have AK/47s.Relaxing Mexico's gun laws would be a big mistake IMO.


Cbviajero, Mexico's gun laws has allowed corruption to flourish, criminals to run wild and kept the people under the thumb of the powerful for decades.

The average Mexican citizen has no way to protect themselves or their families because they are not allowed to own real guns. Law abiding citizens are like sheep in this country. When trouble comes, all the law abiding citizen can do is duck and hide.

The only people with the guns are the criminals. Who are the criminals? The narcos, mafia, transitos, police, federales, local gangs and the military. They are mayors, governors, state and federal legislators and Presidents. Where are these criminals? Michoacan, Jalisco, Sinaloa, Quintana Roo, DF, Tamaulipas, Baja, Veracruz, Sonora, Tabasco, Chihuahua, Chiapas. They are EVERYWHERE in Mexico and the citizenry knows it.

Criminal corruption has been a big part of Mexico's past and present history. If citizens had the "right to bear arms" Mexico's history would have been a lot different.

70,000 people dead, over 20,000 disappeared in the last 6 years. Extortion of the small, struggling businesses, raping wives and daughters at WILL and with IMPUNITY. The general public is sick and tired of it. There is a revolution developing in this country and it is starting in Michoacan. People will arm themselves and the movement will grow. More guns in the hands of law abiding Mexicans, allowing them to defend and protect themselves, their families, and their property is the only way to win the fight against the criminals and the corrupt officials


cbviajero

Nov 24, 2013, 9:13 AM

Post #23 of 42 (6417 views)

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Re: [playaboy] More From Michoacán (in English)

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. There is a revolution developing in this country and it is starting in Michoacan. People will arm themselves and the movement will grow.

I live in Mexico's second largest city and I don't see any signs of a revolution brewing.
If you want a recipe for more bloodshed try this one;easily purchased guns+machos+tequila.
You haven't lived here very long and have stated in the past that you can't speak Spanish,where does all your expertise on Mexico come from?


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Nov 24, 2013, 9:32 AM)


Bennie García

Nov 24, 2013, 1:36 PM

Post #24 of 42 (6375 views)

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Re: [playaboy] More From Michoacán (in English)

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Cbviajero, Mexico's gun laws has allowed corruption to flourish, criminals to run wild and kept the people under the thumb of the powerful for decades.

The average Mexican citizen has no way to protect themselves or their families because they are not allowed to own real guns. Law abiding citizens are like sheep in this country. When trouble comes, all the law abiding citizen can do is duck and hide.

The only people with the guns are the criminals.

Criminal corruption has been a big part of Mexico's past and present history. If citizens had the "right to bear arms" Mexico's history would have been a lot different.



As cbviajero says, you really don't have much of a handle on things in this country. There are guns in many homes here. My father in law had automatic weapons that have since been passed down to his sons. The only difference or obstacle for someone that doesn't belong to a cartel to acquire an automatic assault weapon is basically economics. If I wanted to own an M16 or AK47 I could have one within a week. Where do you think the autodefense groups are getting weapons (other than those they have taken from cartel members)?

Gun ownership laws have been ignored here forever.


CozICan

Nov 25, 2013, 2:57 PM

Post #25 of 42 (6294 views)

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Re: [yucatandreamer] More From Michoacán (in English)

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I might add to my previous info that about a year ago Cozumel had a huge increase in House Robberies and Street Molestings especially in the areas where a lot of expats lived. The expat community got together and started a Neighborhood Watch Group. There were public meetings held and everyone was invited including the Mexican Community. I might add that the Chief of Police and his staff also got involved and backed up the group. Now we have neighbours watching out for neighbours and it has worked out very well. Crime in this area has been cut drastically. If we call 066 or 911 we usually have police on sight within a few minutes.In this case it was mostly groups of punk teenagers and they learned very quickly that they would not be allowed to run freely as they thought they would be able to.

Sometimes people have to set the bar and teach the locals that they don't have to put up with that crap.
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