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tashby


Nov 18, 2013, 6:07 PM

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Artes Plásticas

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Can anyone explain this to me? I've wondered about it forever. If I understand it correctly, it basically means any art form that is appreciated visually. But why "plásticas"?

Or is it just another one of those things that we have to accept, and that will never make logical sense to English-oriented brains?


(This post was edited by tashby on Nov 18, 2013, 6:09 PM)



Bennie García

Nov 18, 2013, 8:10 PM

Post #2 of 22 (18104 views)

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Re: [tashby] Artes Plásticas

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Can anyone explain this to me? I've wondered about it forever. If I understand it correctly, it basically means any art form that is appreciated visually. But why "plásticas"?

Or is it just another one of those things that we have to accept, and that will never make logical sense to English-oriented brains?


The English equivalent is plastic art. The term is rarely heard in English but commonly used in Spanish.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=plastic


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Nov 18, 2013, 8:17 PM)


La Isla


Nov 18, 2013, 8:12 PM

Post #3 of 22 (18103 views)

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Re: [tashby] Artes Plásticas

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"Artes plásticas" refers to the visual arts. I found this definition in Wikipedia:


plastic art:
1 : art (as sculpture or bas-relief) characterized by modeling : three-dimensional art
2 : visual art (as painting, sculpture, or film) especially as distinguished from art that is written (as poetry or music) —often used in plural
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_arts



tashby


Nov 18, 2013, 9:12 PM

Post #4 of 22 (18095 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Artes Plásticas

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Thanks La Isla and especially to you Bennie for that outstanding link to etymonline.com. I pretty much understood what it meant here, just didn't understand why....since it included so many genres I hadn't previously considered "plastic".

I'm from the USA we didn't study much (any) latin where I was, when I was growing up. Now I understand. It's a bigger concept. Thank you.


esperanza

Nov 19, 2013, 6:14 AM

Post #5 of 22 (18081 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Artes Plásticas

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I second the thank you to Bennie--this is a fantastic dictionary and I've added it to my dictionary file. Two thumbs up!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Maesonna

Nov 19, 2013, 4:05 PM

Post #6 of 22 (18050 views)

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Re: [tashby] Artes Plásticas

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Let me attempt to explain the “why”. The words “art” and “arte” are an example of words that basically mean the same thing, and yet in general usage, cover sets of different scope.

In English, if someone is said to be an “artist” the first thing you think of is that they are a creator of visual art — likely a person who paints, draws, creates collages, fabric art, sculptures, etc. — unless there is further context to say that they are a performer (actor, musician), or, less likely, an entertainer.

In Spanish, the first meaning for “artista” is generally “entertainer” (singer, performer, popular actor, etc.) If they are a creator of visual art, they will more likely be referred to specifying their art; they are a pintor, escultor, etc. as the case may be.

The point is that “arte” in Spanish generally refers to “art” in a wider sense than we most often use it in English. Thus to be specific, if you are talking about the visual arts (what we often call simply “art” in English), you need to be more specific and call it artes plásticas to make it clear what you are referring to. As a specific example, in school we have a subject called Art; in Spanish it’s Artes Plásticas.

(This post was edited by Maesonna on Nov 19, 2013, 4:10 PM)


tashby


Nov 19, 2013, 6:31 PM

Post #7 of 22 (18032 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] Artes Plásticas

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Thanks, Maesonna. That helps my understanding a lot, also. Even in my English head, if I meet someone and they tell me they are an artist, my first question is, "What kind?" So your point/distinction resonates with me and I can easily get a handle on the cultural differences.

The thing that hung me up for so long was the use of the word "plastic", obviously because I've never studied Latin or Greek, and didn't know the derivation. The mind-bender for me, as one example, was that a sculpture made of stone would be included in the category of artes plásticas.

I think for a lot of us from the USA, the word plastic is entirely 20th century in origin.


esperanza

Nov 20, 2013, 4:53 AM

Post #8 of 22 (18015 views)

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Re: [tashby] Artes Plásticas

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Just a FYI for everyone: it's arte plástico. 'Arte' is a masculine noun.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Bennie García

Nov 20, 2013, 5:43 AM

Post #9 of 22 (18012 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Artes Plásticas

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Just a FYI for everyone: it's arte plástico. 'Arte' is a masculine noun.


Sorry but you are mistaken. Looked it up on RAE.

"plástica

9. f. Arte de plasmar, o formar cosas de barro, yeso, etc."


esperanza

Nov 20, 2013, 6:17 AM

Post #10 of 22 (18006 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Artes Plásticas

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That's very strange, Bennie. I looked it up before I posted and my look-up says it's nm (noun, masculine).

Edit to add: I have now investigated further and stand corrected. Not only that, I have now learned to distrust my long-time source for information.

Artes plásticas! Artes plásticas! I'm sorry to have confused the issue.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Nov 20, 2013, 6:34 AM)


Bennie García

Nov 20, 2013, 9:21 AM

Post #11 of 22 (17991 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Artes Plásticas

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That's very strange, Bennie. I looked it up before I posted and my look-up says it's nm (noun, masculine).


There are many nouns with ambiguous gender. In this case the gender depends on whether it is singular or plural. Regardless, you being an inhabitant of the D.F., I'm surprised you missed this one. How many times have you visited or passed by el Palacio de Bellas Artes.


cbviajero

Nov 20, 2013, 10:37 AM

Post #12 of 22 (17985 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Artes Plásticas

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There are many nouns with ambiguous gender.

Can you give us some examples?Mar,aguila and radio are a few that come to mind.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Nov 20, 2013, 10:52 AM)


La Isla


Nov 20, 2013, 11:27 AM

Post #13 of 22 (17976 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Artes Plásticas

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There are many nouns with ambiguous gender.

Can you give us some examples?Mar,aguila and radio are a few that come to mind.


Mar is usually "el mar" - "la mar" is considered to be an archaic form now used mostly in poetry. In most parts of the Spanish-speaking world, "el radio" and "la radio" have different meanings: "el radio" refers to the object to use to hear programs over "la radio", which is the system used to transmit programs over the airwaves. "Águila" belongs to a different category of nouns: when a noun begins with an accented "a" sound, "el" is the singular definite article used for reasons of pronunciation; however, the plural definite article used is "las".


Bennie García

Nov 20, 2013, 11:43 AM

Post #14 of 22 (17973 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Artes Plásticas

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There are many nouns with ambiguous gender.

Can you give us some examples?Mar,aguila and radio are a few that come to mind.


I'm pretty sure águila is strictly feminine. It is a feminine noun that uses a masculine article, el águila, el agua etc in the singular. Words that begin with a stressed a- or ha- sound. Any adjective that follows those nouns reflects the gender. El águila blanca, el agua fria etc. But if there is another word between the article and the noun then the article matches the gender, la milagrosa agua, for example.

Ambiguous gender nouns include calor, color, margen, azúcar. There's more but I can't think of any at the moment.

Sorry for any redundancy, didn't see the post by la isla.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Nov 20, 2013, 11:44 AM)


Bennie García

Nov 20, 2013, 11:47 AM

Post #15 of 22 (17970 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Artes Plásticas

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In Reply To

In Reply To

There are many nouns with ambiguous gender.

Can you give us some examples?Mar,aguila and radio are a few that come to mind.


Mar is usually "el mar" - "la mar" is considered to be an archaic form now used mostly in poetry. In most parts of the Spanish-speaking world, "el radio" and "la radio" have different meanings: "el radio" refers to the object to use to hear programs over "la radio", which is the system used to transmit programs over the airwaves. "Águila" belongs to a different category of nouns: when a noun begins with an accented "a" sound, "el" is the singular definite article used for reasons of pronunciation; however, the plural definite article used is "las".


"La mar" is still heard frequently in a children's song.

"A la víbora, víbora, de la mar, de la mar por aquí pueden pasar. Los de adelante corren mucho, y los de atrás se quedarán tras, tras, tras."


La Isla


Nov 20, 2013, 12:35 PM

Post #16 of 22 (17965 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Artes Plásticas

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

There are many nouns with ambiguous gender.

Can you give us some examples?Mar,aguila and radio are a few that come to mind.


Mar is usually "el mar" - "la mar" is considered to be an archaic form now used mostly in poetry. In most parts of the Spanish-speaking world, "el radio" and "la radio" have different meanings: "el radio" refers to the object to use to hear programs over "la radio", which is the system used to transmit programs over the airwaves. "Águila" belongs to a different category of nouns: when a noun begins with an accented "a" sound, "el" is the singular definite article used for reasons of pronunciation; however, the plural definite article used is "las".


"La mar" is still heard frequently in a children's song.

"A la víbora, víbora, de la mar, de la mar por aquí pueden pasar. Los de adelante corren mucho, y los de atrás se quedarán tras, tras, tras."


I should have said that "la mar" is used in poetry as well as in songs. Thanks for posting these lyrics.


cbviajero

Nov 20, 2013, 1:34 PM

Post #17 of 22 (17961 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Artes Plásticas

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Thanks,Bennie and La Isla.
I asked my 8 year old son about the children's song,he knew it right off the bat.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Nov 20, 2013, 1:35 PM)


esperanza

Nov 20, 2013, 2:31 PM

Post #18 of 22 (17950 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Artes Plásticas

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That's very strange, Bennie. I looked it up before I posted and my look-up says it's nm (noun, masculine).


There are many nouns with ambiguous gender. In this case the gender depends on whether it is singular or plural. Regardless, you being an inhabitant of the D.F., I'm surprised you missed this one. How many times have you visited or passed by el Palacio de Bellas Artes.

Forgetful (aka old).

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









tashby


Nov 20, 2013, 6:11 PM

Post #19 of 22 (17934 views)

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Re: [tashby] Artes Plásticas

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Just want to say thanks to all others for the informative posts in this thread.


tonyburton


Nov 20, 2013, 7:03 PM

Post #20 of 22 (17929 views)

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Re: [tashby] Artes Plásticas

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I agree - it's amazing what a seemingly simple query can elicit by way of response!
[BTW, I'm surprised, given our target demographic, that this thread didn't include any mention of "plastic surgery" - cirugía plástica].


eyePad

Jan 12, 2014, 10:40 AM

Post #21 of 22 (17367 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Artes Plásticas

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Wow, what a lot of good grammar lessons.


But Tashby, "Or is it just another one of those things that we have to accept, and that will never make logical sense to English-oriented brains?"
Don't go negative on us!!! When you are just starting to learn another language, any learning seems like leaps and bounds because the body of your knowledge is growing by large percentages. However, when you already know quite a bit (like you), in order to seem like you are learning, you have to learn a lot to increase your knowledge by a significant percentage. Do not worry!!!


(This post was edited by eyePad on Jan 12, 2014, 10:41 AM)


zaragemca

Jan 14, 2014, 10:08 AM

Post #22 of 22 (17310 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Artes Plásticas

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 Saludos. The root of the meaning is on the word, 'plasticidad'.... La capacidad de moldear, ) molding) - estender, ( to extend), - dar forma, ( to give form). Lo cual podemos hacer con, la pintura, el barro, el yeso, la cera, la terracota, el vidrio, ( The glass), - los metales, ( the metals), ( because we could heat the metal or could heat the glass and molding things out if, etc). Gerry Zaragemca
International Club of Percussionists

(This post was edited by zaragemca on Jan 14, 2014, 10:22 AM)
 
 
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