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CozumelComplete


Oct 13, 2013, 9:40 AM

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Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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It seems that they are demanding all our documents to be in our maiden name, or citizenship will be denied. The only way around this would be to have name changed to BC name in the USA, followed by having all IDs and Visas etc changed to maiden name. Only then will they allow nationalization. I have been following the ordeals of several ladies on the Morelia yahoo board.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II

(This post was edited by RickS on Oct 13, 2013, 6:08 PM)



Maesonna

Oct 14, 2013, 9:24 AM

Post #2 of 79 (4902 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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I’ve read that in other places where this name problem comes up, the applicant can go to a notario público with the right documents and get a certificate attesting that she is the same person under her current (passport and visa) name as on her birth certificate. So the officials are not accepting this in Morelia?


esperanza

Oct 14, 2013, 10:51 AM

Post #3 of 79 (4889 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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The woman who started the thread on the Yahoo board applied for citizenship in Hermosillo, not Morelia. She and my wife are corresponding about this, since both of them are in the same boat.

The authorities at SRE in Mexico City are also not accepting the aclaración de nombre document. SRE has dug in its heels re a woman's citizenship application. They have said that all supporting documents must be in a woman's maiden name. It is an enormous and insurmountable pain in the you-know-what.

A good friend of ours is a highly-placed attorney with SRE; he has investigated this issue for us with the director of SRE in the DF. His only suggestion is to petition the court in the state of birth of the woman making the citizenship application, asking the court to change the name on her birth certificate to the woman's actual legal name. In New York, where my wife was born, this is possible if the woman is in danger or is an immigrant to the USA, but no other possibilities are listed. Our friend the SRE attorney also mentioned applying for citizenship in her maiden name, but there are no supporting documents for that--what I mean is, her US passport and all Mexican ID is in her actual legal name, not her maiden name. SRE refuses to budge.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Oct 14, 2013, 10:55 AM)


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 10:54 AM

Post #4 of 79 (4885 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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I never thought of doing it that way. Instead of changing everything to the BC name, just have BC changed instead. Great idea.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


esperanza

Oct 14, 2013, 10:56 AM

Post #5 of 79 (4881 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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I just edited my post, go back and read it again. *sigh*

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Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 1:05 PM

Post #6 of 79 (4851 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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It seems that they are demanding all our documents to be in our maiden name, or citizenship will be denied. The only way around this would be to have name changed to BC name in the USA, followed by having all IDs and Visas etc changed to maiden name. Only then will they allow nationalization. I have been following the ordeals of several ladies on the Morelia yahoo board.


REGLAMENTO DE LA LEY DE NACIONALIDAD, 21/03/2013,
Articulo 16:
IV.- Entregar copia certificada del acta de nacimiento extranjera, debidamente legalizada o apostillada
y traducida.
Se podrá exceptuar de este requisito al solicitante considerado refugiado, para lo
cual se deberá tomar en cuenta la recomendación que emita la Secretaría de Gobernación;

Nothing new or exciting here, this is the same requirement for establishing identity, date of birth and citizenship for any action in Mexico. I might also point out that according to both LA LEY DE NACIONALIDAD and REGLAMENTO DE LA LEY DE NACIONALIDAD part of the process is to relinquish all things foreign and swear allegiance to all things Mexican. This includes accepting laws and regulations.


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Oct 14, 2013, 2:18 PM)


esperanza

Oct 14, 2013, 1:15 PM

Post #7 of 79 (4844 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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Ric, you're wrong. This is different.

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Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 1:22 PM

Post #8 of 79 (4842 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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Ric, you're wrong. This is different.

Such a blanket statement as I am wrong. Can you elaborate a bit?

LEY DE NACIONALIDAD, 23/04/2012

Artículo 17.- Los mexicanos por nacimiento a los que otro Estado considere como sus nacionales, podrán solicitar a la Secretaría el certificado de nacionalidad mexicana, únicamente para los efectos del artículo anterior.
Para ello, formularán renuncia expresa a la nacionalidad que les sea atribuida, a toda sumisión, obediencia y fidelidad a cualquier Estado extranjero, especialmente de aquél que le atribuya la otra nacionalidad, a toda protección extraña a las leyes y autoridades mexicanas, y a todo derecho que los tratados o convenciones internacionales concedan a los extranjeros. Asimismo, protestarán adhesión, obediencia y sumisión a las leyes y autoridades mexicanas y se abstendrán de realizar cualquier conducta que implique sumisión a un Estado extranjero.

El certificado de nacionalidad mexicana se expedirá una vez que el interesado haya cumplido con los requisitos de esta Ley y su reglamento.

Artículo 19.- El extranjero que pretenda naturalizarse mexicano deberá:
I. Presentar solicitud a la Secretaría en la que manifieste su voluntad de adquirir la nacionalidad mexicana;
II. Formular las renuncias y protesta a que se refiere el artículo 17 de este ordenamiento;



(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Oct 14, 2013, 1:27 PM)


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 1:55 PM

Post #9 of 79 (4821 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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The difference is that for years and years back, women have obtained Mexican Citizenship under thier legal married names, with proof that the name on the BC was the same person as the married name on the other IDs. NOW they are requiring that the womens legal name remain the same as she was born with, with all IDs in that name. They will make NO ALLOWANCE for the legal customs of other countries...which leaves us between a rock and a very expensive hard place.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 2:12 PM

Post #10 of 79 (4815 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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The difference is that for years and years back, women have obtained Mexican Citizenship under thier legal married names, with proof that the name on the BC was the same person as the married name on the other IDs. NOW they are requiring that the womens legal name remain the same as she was born with, with all IDs in that name. They will make NO ALLOWANCE for the legal customs of other countries...which leaves us between a rock and a very expensive hard place.

What may have been before does not have any bearing on what is now. Review my posts and verify from the SRE page which articles of laws apply to your application. The law is not ambiguous when it sets the requirements for accepting foreign documents. Read article 19 from the law if you have not done so yet.


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 2:18 PM

Post #11 of 79 (4809 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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I have read them, and there is NOTHING that states that your legal name must be the same as your birth name. That is the problem, not swearing alligance, or applying, nor providing documents. I was born Patricia Anne Schworak....my LEGAL name is Patricia Anne Holt, which is on every piece of legal Identification I own, including my Mexican documents. There is NOTHING in the law that says I have to maintain my birth name as my legal name in order to gain citizenship!
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 2:21 PM

Post #12 of 79 (4806 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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REGULATION OF NATIONALITY ACT, 21/03/2013,
Article 16:
IV. - Provide certified copy of foreign birth, duly legalized or apostilled
and translated. It may relax this requirement the applicant as a refugee, for
which should take into account the recommendation issued by the Ministry of the Interior;

No problem supplying this and certification that the person on the BC is the same on the other documents with name change by law of marriage.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 2:34 PM

Post #13 of 79 (4804 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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I have read them, and there is NOTHING that states that your legal name must be the same as your birth name. That is the problem, not swearing alligance, or applying, nor providing documents. I was born Patricia Anne Schworak....my LEGAL name is Patricia Anne Holt, which is on every piece of legal Identification I own, including my Mexican documents. There is NOTHING in the law that says I have to maintain my birth name as my legal name in order to gain citizenship!

In Mexico the only (legal or married) name a person has is the one appearing on a birth certificate, church or civil registry. The application calls for your name to be filled in and supported with the accredited document. The only document accepted for a foreigner is listed in the article quoted above. While INM accepted your passport for visas, you are applying for citizenship and what the SRE is requiring is more strict.


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Oct 14, 2013, 3:20 PM)


Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 2:38 PM

Post #14 of 79 (4802 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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REGULATION OF NATIONALITY ACT, 21/03/2013,
Article 16: IV
....
No problem supplying this and certification that the person on the BC is the same on the other documents with name change by law of marriage.

The law does not want your certification.


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 2:42 PM

Post #15 of 79 (4792 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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Ric, what is your problem..yes it says provide the BC appostilled etc...IT dos NOT say anything about using our legal names. This says the same thing it said for years..no mention of not using our legal names, with certified proof. All my immigration documents have my legal name, my Government insurance and INAPAM required BC but gave cards in legal name.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 3:02 PM

Post #16 of 79 (4786 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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In Reply To
Ric, what is your problem..yes it says provide the BC appostilled etc...IT dos NOT say anything about using our legal names. .

I do not have a problem either reading or applying law, regulation, agreements, procedures or other handbooks. Simply read what is accepted and or required instead of relying on word of mouth, second hand information or how you think it should be allowed, it makes everything easier and fairer for all. The application calls for your name and that is the name on the supporting document as listed in article 16 IV. Why is that so difficult to understand?


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Oct 14, 2013, 3:30 PM)


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 3:17 PM

Post #17 of 79 (4772 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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The Birth Certificate is not the only supporting document.

Present the following documents:
II.- Signed request in original form;
III.- Valid immigration document in original form, emitted by the Secretary of Government, with which it will prove legal standing in México and in consequence, the residency in the country during the immediate last 5 years from the date on the request; said document must be in force for minimum 6 months after the presentation of the request and have the CURP number.

IV.- Certified copy of the birth certificate, duly legalized and translated. In case of Refugee status this requirement could be exempted by the SRE.
V.- Original of foreign passport or valid document of identity and trip;
VI.- A letter, truthful, and with clarity the times of exit from the country and entry into the country as per the requirements of article 21 of the Law;
VII.- A certificate, in original form of no criminal past emitted by the competent local and federal authority where the applicant lives.
VIII.- Two recent face photos in color, of 4.5 x 3.5 cms., with White background, no glasses, wig, earrings or piercings and no hat;
IX.- Manifest under oath that the information is correct and in accordance with the presented documentation and
X.- Proof of payment of the fees in original form.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 3:28 PM

Post #18 of 79 (4765 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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The Birth Certificate is not the only supporting document.
(apparent electronic translation by original poster)
Present the following documents:
II.- Signed request in original form;
III.- Valid immigration document in original form, emitted by the Secretary of Government, with which it will prove legal standing in México and in consequence, the residency in the country during the immediate last 5 years from the date on the request; said document must be in force for minimum 6 months after the presentation of the request and have the CURP number.

IV.- Certified copy of the birth certificate, duly legalized and translated. In case of Refugee status this requirement could be exempted by the SRE.
V.- Original of foreign passport or valid document of identity and trip;
VI.- A letter, truthful, and with clarity the times of exit from the country and entry into the country as per the requirements of article 21 of the Law;
VII.- A certificate, in original form of no criminal past emitted by the competent local and federal authority where the applicant lives.
VIII.- Two recent face photos in color, of 4.5 x 3.5 cms., with White background, no glasses, wig, earrings or piercings and no hat;
IX.- Manifest under oath that the information is correct and in accordance with the presented documentation and
X.- Proof of payment of the fees in original form.

And your point is? Yes, the law and regulation lists everything you need to support your application for citizenship. Have you been denied your application? If so, the reason(s) for the denial should be clearly stated affording you the opportunity to make corrections and resubmit.


esperanza

Oct 14, 2013, 4:00 PM

Post #19 of 79 (4749 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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My wife has done everything--every jot and tittle--required by law in applying for Mexican citizenship. Her application has been denied--i.e., NOT ACCEPTED--and no letter has been offered as to why. A good friend of ours, who is a highly-placed lawyer WITHIN the SRE, tells us that the rules have been changed and her application WILL NOT be accepted unless she legally changes her name on her birth certificate to the legal name that she has used since 1968. He mentioned that she could apply under the name on her birth certificate--but of course she has none of the other required supporting documents under that name.

I repeat, Ric Hoffman, this is a new and different situation for women who are legally known by their husband's (or ex-husband's) last names. What you have posted here does not apply to this situation with SRE. SRE and our lawyer friend have told us that this is a recent change.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









(This post was edited by esperanza on Oct 14, 2013, 4:25 PM)


CozumelComplete


Oct 14, 2013, 4:11 PM

Post #20 of 79 (4741 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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AMEN and Gracias
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


addtocart

Oct 14, 2013, 4:59 PM

Post #21 of 79 (4726 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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In Reply To
My wife has done everything--every jot and tittle--required by law in applying for Mexican citizenship. Her application has been denied--i.e., NOT ACCEPTED--and no letter has been offered as to why. A good friend of ours, who is a highly-placed lawyer WITHIN the SRE, tells us that the rules have been changed and her application WILL NOT be accepted unless she legally changes her name on her birth certificate to the legal name that she has used since 1968. He mentioned that she could apply under the name on her birth certificate--but of course she has none of the other required supporting documents under that name.

OK, I'm just jumping in here, but that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. To change a name on a birth certificate. It's either a misunderstanding of the rules or a new low in Mexican law.


esperanza

Oct 14, 2013, 5:08 PM

Post #22 of 79 (4724 views)

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Re: [addtocart] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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Trust me, this is not a misunderstanding of the new rules. We are dealing with the head of SRE in Mexico City, where the rules are made, and a very well-placed lawyer who works for SRE.

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addtocart

Oct 14, 2013, 5:18 PM

Post #23 of 79 (4722 views)

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Re: Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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I wonder if I can change my birth certificate to read "John D. Rockefeller IV"? I need a little walking-around money.

Really. That's how stupid the idea of changing a name on a birth certificate is. It's a birth certificate, not a phone bill.


esperanza

Oct 14, 2013, 5:30 PM

Post #24 of 79 (4720 views)

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Re: [addtocart] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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Amen and gracias!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









Ric Hoffman


Oct 14, 2013, 5:46 PM

Post #25 of 79 (4716 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Problems for Divorced and Widowed Females wanting Citizenship!

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My wife has done everything--every jot and tittle--required by law in applying for Mexican citizenship. Her application has been denied--i.e., NOT ACCEPTED--and no letter has been offered as to why. A good friend of ours, who is a highly-placed lawyer WITHIN the SRE, tells us that the rules have been changed and her application WILL NOT be accepted unless she legally changes her name on her birth certificate to the legal name that she has used since 1968. He mentioned that she could apply under the name on her birth certificate--but of course she has none of the other required supporting documents under that name.

I repeat, Ric Hoffman, this is a new and different situation for women who are legally known by their husband's (or ex-husband's) last names. What you have posted here does not apply to this situation with SRE. SRE and our lawyer friend have told us that this is a recent change.

I will say again simply read what is accepted and or required instead of relying on word of mouth, second hand information or how you think it should be allowed, it makes everything easier and fairer for all. Why is that so difficult to understand?

I am providing information according to published law and regulation. I used the judicial requirements referenced on the SRE site as well as reading the instructions for completing the DNN-3 (SOLICITUD DE CARTA DE NATURALIZACIÓN (FORMATO DNN-3))
CONSTITUCIÓN POLÍTICA DE LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS. (ART. 30, APARTADO B, FRACCIÓN I Y II).
LEY DE NACIONALIDAD (D.O.F. 23/01/1998). (ARTS. 17,19 Y 20).
LEY FEDERAL DE DERECHOS (ART. 26).
REGLAMENTO DE LA LEY DE NACIONALIDAD (D.O.F. 17/06/2009). (ARTS. 15,16,17,18,19,20 Y 21).

I have copies of the DOF, dating to 2004, publishing updated versions of the law and regulation as well as the CONSTITUCIÓN POLÍTICA DE LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS MEXICANOS. I can find no reference in these to allow a person to submit or process a formato DNN-3 using any name other than the name found on the individual's birth certificate.

The requirement listed in the instructions regarding any foreign document is and has been consistent:
LOS DOCUMENTOS DE PROCEDENCIA EXTRANJERA QUE SE PRESENTEN DENTRO DE LOS PROCEDIMIENTOS Y TRÁMITES CONTEMPLADOS POR LA LEY DE NACIONALIDAD Y SU REGLAMENTO, DEBERÁN ESTAR DEBIDAMENTE LEGALIZADOS POR EL REPRESENTANTE DIPLOMÁTICO O CONSULAR MEXICANO DEL LUGAR DE SU EXPEDICIÓN O, EN SU CASO, APOSTILLADOS POR LA AUTORIDAD COMPETENTE, ASÍ COMO TRADUCIDOS AL ESPAÑOL POR PERITO TRADUCTOR AUTORIZADO POR EL PODER JUDICIAL DE CUALQUIER ENTIDAD FEDERATIVA DEL TERRITORIO NACIONAL.


If anyone says the laws or regulations have changed, I would question it unless they are willing to provide proof. DNN-3 limits 90 days for processing your request and they must provide negative responses.


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Oct 14, 2013, 5:57 PM)
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