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rev_miguel

Nov 28, 2002, 6:59 PM

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Please Tell My Why

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Recently I did the mexican thing for many months in a beautiful location and I did not like it.

Here is what I did not like:

1. People I don't know drinking on my doorstep at 7am

2. The excessive Police prescence

3. One price for mexicans, another for gringos

4. Roosters and dogs in the middle of the night.

5. A constant barrage of noisy things like the gas truck, the agua truck, the taco man,

6. Too many bugs crawling around and not enough hot water.

7. A place with so many rules and yet none at all.

8. Too many cabs that thought I wanted a ride.

9. A lot of garbage that doesn't get thrown in it's right place.

10. The underlying ping of personal power based on connections.

11. Napoleonic law

Don't get me wrong the mexican people were nice, the neighborhood was nice and so were the gringos that I met but after a while it all turned into a boring blur of too much sun and too many drinks. It didn't grow on me so I went back home sobered up and got a life.

Tell me why you love living in Mexico.

If you feel so inclined you can slam me

Rolly

Nov 28, 2002, 7:09 PM

Post #2 of 31 (4471 views)

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Re: [rev_miguel] Please Tell My Why

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It's quite simple, Rev. Mexico is not for everyone.

We don't all like the same things -- thank goodness.

And not all of Mexico is like you experienced -- thank goodness.

Rolly Pirate

MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 28, 2002, 7:17 PM

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Re: [rev_miguel] Please Tell My Why

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Because I'm Mexican American...quite simply. And when I lived in the U.S.

1. I was stopped and harrassed by the police and frisked for no reason.
2. There was a constant influx of verbal garbage which polluted my ears with racism.
3. The neighbors next door in my San Francisco apartment had cockroaches that made their way to my apartment and I grew tired of the fumes of the exterminator.
4. People drank constantly all around me to deal with the stress that their work environments caused them working some unGodly hours
5. Too many rules but not for all (i.e. the Kennedy family and murders/rapes)
6. Too many cars and too many 2nd and 3rd mortgages to pay for them
7. Too many QVC gemstones and circonia representing as reality
8. A constant barrage of noise from gas leaf blowers and ghetto blasters and that guy above me that played punk music at 4 in the morning.
9. Prices that put hair on my chest for rent, food, clothing, and virtually everthing I needed to exist
10. Napoleonic law
11. My stock portfolio sucked because I was paying too much of my income to exist.

Won't blast you! There's a place for everyone!

CanMex

Nov 29, 2002, 6:25 AM

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Re: [rev_miguel] Please Tell My Why

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Rev,

I must say, you are comparing oranges with apples here. All the items you have listed, you will find in the US. And you could change street cleaners, Snow Removal, Sirens, gun shots for agua truck and taco man, to # 5 in the states.

There are many places in Mexico where you would have been sheltered from those things. Just as there are many places in the US, where you would find, those items and more.

I live in a Ejido, out in the boonies (that's close to the bottom economically) when in Mexico, and I don't have any of what you list, except 3, 4 (I much rather that, than sirens and shots), 9 and (11 ?)

Another thing, from your pos,t I get that you have been living, only once, 1 place in Mexico. How can you judge a country.

Luc

Mabel

Nov 29, 2002, 6:47 AM

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Re: [CanMex] Please Tell My Why

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Actually, he isn't comparing at all. He just mentioned the things he didn't like about the place he stayed in Mexico and why he left.

From our experience in Mexico, we had most of the same complaints, but decided against moving there for other reasons.

We have never seen these conditions in the US in the dozen or so places we have lived. Of course, we have not made our homes in the slums , so we probably have missed out on that rich cultural experience. There has been no reason to "compare" living conditions in Mexico to those in Canada/US since they are so different. So, those who have read the "Mex on $5 a day" books and want to live "like a king" in Mexico, should give it a shot first. It's always been intesting to me how nearly everyone I have met who moved to Mexico, has returned to their "home" in the US and Canada , even after years......... that speaks volumes.

Even those who praise the IMSS medical seem, when given the chance, return to the US or Canada for their treatments........ (now who could I be talking about here (grin)??? )

Still, it's a nice place to visit. Much like camping in the wilderness........of course, camping isn't for everyone....

Mabel

CanMex

Nov 29, 2002, 7:51 AM

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Re: [Mabel] Please Tell My Why

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Mabel,

I beg to differ. He is comparing, and if he was willing to spend the money he spends, were ever he lives and looked around in Mexico or inform himself were he can find a place that would not have does things he mentions. I am sure he would find it, and may even have money to spare.

"From our experience in Mexico, we had most of the same complaints, but decided against moving there for other reasons."

Again, how hard have you looked for something different in Mexico?

"Of course, we have not made our homes in the slums , so we probably have missed out on that rich cultural experience. "

Thanks, for admitting you are comparing oranges with bananas, therefore, do you really know what you are talking about?

""Mex on $5 a day" books "

When was that book originally written, you could have a book saying US $5 a day if you are talking about the 30's. And things have changed a lot faster in Mexico, especially in the last years.

"nearly everyone I have met who moved to Mexico, has returned to their "home" in the US and Canada ,"

You have people in the US and Canada, who are doing the same, going back to places like Bangladesh and all parts of the world, most people have difficulty facing the fact, that they may die in a country other than where they were born. Others miss their family and roots, others want to help their people, etc... Just look, at how many Mexicans, come back to their families and/or to retire etc... Nothing new there.

"Even those who praise the IMSS medical seem, when given the chance, return to the US or Canada for their treatments........ (now who could I be talking about here (grin)??? )"

I doubt very much that those who do not have an expensive Medical Insurance are doing that.

On this, I can talk from experience, when in Matamoros, Tamaulipas, less than a mile from Bownsville, Texas, I had a pain in my abdomen and feared that it might be appendicitis, so I went to the red cross and see a doctor, which told me that it was appendicitis and that I could go to the hospital, but they probably would not operate me till the next day, because it did not appear to be an emergency. If I wanted to pay a little more, there was a private clinic there, that could operate, on me within a few hours, for 6,500 pesos that included a 3 day stay.

That was May 1997, 7 PM, and I was on my way back to Canada (Free medical care). I decided I wanted to be operated as soon as possible, by 9 PM I was in a private lab 1 block away, they took blood samples etc.. I then went to the clinic again within a block, and at 11:30PM I was rolled in the operating room, at 1:30AM, I was in my room, 2 days later I was out. And this is a Border town were everything is more expensive and more dangerous.

jennifer rose

Nov 29, 2002, 8:28 AM

Post #7 of 31 (4282 views)

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Re: [rev_miguel] Please Tell My Why

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Some folks simply have myopic views when it comes to Mexico. There are many, many of us, who do not awaken to drunks on our doorstep, who do not spend our days here in an alcoholic haze, who aren’t harassed by the police, who don’t experience dual pricing schemes, and who do live in quiet neighborhoods. Everything negative that posters here have cited about Mexico can be found in England, Canada, the U.S., Korea and just about any place on the planet. What is telling about the original poster’s perspective of Mexico is his recital of a “boring blur of too much sun and too many drinks.”

If the original posted had reached sobriety while he was in Mexico, and if he had a life already, surely his view of this country would’ve been much different.

An integral part of one’s perspective on Mexico is whether an individual views their life here as merely a short stay, renting, or coming here for the long haul, buying and making a home here. Those in the latter group learn to accept everything that the original poster has found wrong with this country as part of the package. Mexico is our “home,” and we have no other.

Most foreigners do not subscribe to IMSS. And most do not return to their country of origin for medical care….or to die. There is a tremendous tendency among many on these fora to characterize what goes on in the Ajijic and Chapala area – or even resorts – as typical of the expatriate experience in Mexico. And those folks are astounded to find that there are foreigners living in Mexico who do not have English-speaking clubs and classes, who do not have American or Canadian societies, whose friends are nearly all Mexican, and whose daily lives are practically indistinguishable from those of Mexicans in their own social class. Some of us do not even watch English-language television!

rev_miguel

Nov 29, 2002, 9:02 AM

Post #8 of 31 (4227 views)

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Re: [jenniferrose] Please Tell My Why

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I think it's wrong to make a value judgement on whether someone perceives someone to have a life or not, obviously a life has to be had to get to Mexico in the first place normally and any subjective such opinionation as yours demonstrates to me not a full and just evaluation of my original perspective and intention. I simply pointed out some things and in my opinion cheap drinks and cheap cigarettes keep the population happy as well as many gringos. The statement of a boring blur of too much sun and too many drinks is reflective of an opinion and a summation. It is not meant to be taken literally to apply personally to me and it should be digested as the overview of a situation as I saw it. And it pertains to many people. Many of the mexicans as well as other gringos actually drank much more than I. from early in the morning till 10 at night or so. A mexican once told me if a mexican doesn't drink he is not mexican. My post is not to be taken against anyone or anything in particular, it is simply what I did not like about the place. There were no brushes with the law, just an awareness of a strong police presence and the napoleonic law that surrounds it. It is not a law of cases being addressed by the case but rather the interpretation of the rules arbitrarily in most cases by individuals or groups who can be influenced monetarily. The dual pricing thing is well known. After many months of digestion of the many aspects of my perception of mexico, a realization was obtained and for me Mexico was not the mecca I had thought it was.

I therefore returned to things I like better.

pat

Nov 29, 2002, 10:15 AM

Post #9 of 31 (4296 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] Please Tell My Why

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Marisol, I thought the question was, "what do you like about living in Mexico." Not, "What do you not like about the US."

Pat

rev_miguel

Nov 29, 2002, 12:57 PM

Post #10 of 31 (4190 views)

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Re: [MarisolEnPlayas] Please Tell My Why

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I would agree with much of what you say except the Napoleonic law, I've never seen that in the states,

I liked your comments about there being a place for everyone, that's a good political commercial commentary recently used in the California gov race. I watched a lot of TV in Mexico.

Mabel

Nov 29, 2002, 1:42 PM

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Re: [CanMex] Please Tell My Why

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His post did not say where his "home" was, and did not mention the US or Canada at all.

Please re-read it. He listed the things he did not like and went back home.... No comparison was made to anything. Your post was the one that mentioned "don't make comparisons".

I'm only speaking from personal experience. I haven't lived everywhere in Mexico , nor in the US or in Canada. Neither have you. But I feel really really safe in small town Oklahoma , and have never experienced those problems he mentioned in anyplace I have lived in the US. But then, we never lived in large cities, or slums, or next door to a bar or massage parlor..... In fact, in the US, most people live in small towns. There are thousands in every state. Only a few dozen large cities where the Democrats live (grin)..

Que te vaya bien,

Mabel

CanMex

Nov 29, 2002, 2:42 PM

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Re: [Mabel] Please Tell My Why

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Mabel, I am going to take it nice and slow with you.

First I think we could risk assuming that he is living in Canada or US, agree?

Let's say, a Mexican who is living in Mexico, where none of the items in the list exist, and he feels really, really safe in his little small Pueblo. Now he goes and rents a place or a room in skid row Oklahoma City. And comes back and says Recently I did the US thing for many months, and I did not like it. and here his the list of things I did not like. bla bla bla

Don't get me wrong the american people were nice, the neighborhood was nice and so were the Mexican Americans that I met but after a while it all turned into a boring blur of too much sun and too many drinks. It didn't grow on me so I went back home sobered up and got a life.

Tell me why you love living in the US.

How would you feel about that, do you think it would be fair for him, to compare (sorry to liken) his little Pueblo to skid row Oklahoma City and then say those things.

"In fact, in the US, most people live in small towns. There are thousands in every state. Only a few dozen large cities where the Democrats live (grin)."

As a matter of fact, the majority of Mexicans either live in Mexico City or out in the country in small Pueblos and Ciudades. That's why you can't judge a country by visiting one place and comparing (oops liken) it to his or her home.

Luc

smacarol

Nov 29, 2002, 2:49 PM

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Re: Napoleonic Code

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The State of Louisiana is the only state in the U.S. which does still officially follow Napoleanic Code, i.e., guilty until proven innocent.

Of course the reality of what passes for justice in many U.S. courts, especially against those without wealth and class and color privileges, often approaches Napoleanic justice.

Carol Schmidt

(This post was edited by jenniferrose on Nov 29, 2002, 6:48 PM)

smacarol

Nov 29, 2002, 3:02 PM

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MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 29, 2002, 3:47 PM

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Re: [Mabel] Please Tell My Why

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Mabel,

At over a half a million dollars for a frumpy house, I hardly think that San Francisco would ever be considered a slum. and the experiences I listed were experienced THERE. I do know that it is considered one of the MOST cosmopolitan cities in the U.S. I'm not sure how Oklahoma rates on that scale, but if you are happy there then please stay.

But if I were choose a place to camp in the "wilderness with red neck folk and all" Oklahoma would certainly come to mind.

Marisol

P.S. IF I move, it will be to Europe, most likely Barcelona.

MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 29, 2002, 3:50 PM

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Re: [CanMex] Please Tell My Why

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Damn CanMex,

We actually agree on something. We've experience a REVALATION...LOL

MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 29, 2002, 3:56 PM

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Re: [jenniferrose] Please Tell My Why

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Thank you JenniferRose,

I have to admit that given the medical treatment I had at Scripps Chula Vista, for a thyroid test, where they lost the results twice and then screwed up my prescription until I was taken to the hospital after passing out, only to find out that I was testing at a TSH level of 109, which I'm told is unheard of when the normal range is up to 4, I'm skeptical about American medical treatment. To add to this, the low level of thyroid contributed to a severe bout of depression calle myedemia madness which had me near suicidal.

When I went the the physician in Mexico, I was treated right away, given a dose of proper therapy and within three weeks I was feeling energetic, happy and normal.

I have cigna healthcare which covers me in Mexico from my job. Guess who my doctor is now?

MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 29, 2002, 3:59 PM

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Re: [pat] Please Tell My Why

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Pat,

The medical treatment, the cost of housing, the warmth of the people, the overwhelming feeling of fitting in, the fact that I'm safer walking down the street than I was in the U.S....must I go on?

MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 29, 2002, 4:05 PM

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Re: [CanMex] Please Tell My Why

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Oddly enough,

Most of my Mexican neighbors do not drink. My Mexican husband wouldn't put alcohol to his lips for fear of polluting his healthy body...he's a weightlifter, and while I drink, it's occassionally at holidays...like yesterday.

I have never had a blurr of alcohol and sun in Mexico, because I take my life as seriously as my Mexican friends do. Now, when people visit here, they embibe...but they are on vacation. Still, treading through a vacation with a drink in hand and laying in the sun HARDLY provides one with a realistic perspective of the ACTUAL life around them.

Mexicans for the most part are VERY hard workers. They value family and the times when they drink is to enjoy friendship. I don't think that contributes to an alcoholic blur in life...but sometimes people offer more about themselves than they wish to here.

esperanza

Nov 29, 2002, 4:13 PM

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Re: [smacarol] Ooops, that's Napoleonic Code--nfmsg

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*Sigh* There are times when these posts make me wonder about it all...

I live on a street in the middle of a town where the big church bells call beginning at 6:30AM for 7:00AM Mass, the trash man tinkles his little bell soon after, the gas man comes by every morning, the parade of water men follows shortly, and I hear the clippety clop of the milk delivery horse's hooves on cobbles through my bedroom windows. These sounds set the rhythm of my day, give me the security that life goes on in its immutable way, and bring me peace. These peaceful morning sounds are part and parcel of life in Mexico, just like the breeze blowing through the jacaranda tree in my garden, the tinkle of the fountain, and the purr of the cat on my lap. I'd rather start the day with these sounds than with the whir of a helicopter above my house, with strident police sirens blaring down a freeway, or with the morning talking heads spouting nonsense from my television...the way life was in my upper-middle-class neighborhood in the 'old country'.

I take exception to the 'living in a slum' comment made in an earlier post. That's quite an assumption. I look around my lovely garden and my wonderfully simple home; I talk with my neighbors, all of whom are enormously generous of heart and spirit. I don't see anything that remotely resembles a slum. Where should I prefer to live? In a gated community of expatriates who came to Mexico for the climate and the money exchange and who never venture out into the joyous real life of this country? In a nervous society of foreigners who protect themselves from any interchange with Mexicans other than the minimum required to communicate in monosyllables with the maid and the gardener? If we allow ourselves to be voluntarily imprisoned in gilded mansions on the hillsides...we are nevertheless in prison. As we say here, 'Aunque la jaula sea de oro...'

If posters need to be sheltered from life as it is lived here, then perhaps the posters need to follow the example of the OP. The OP was right to move back to wherever he/she came from. Although inner peace is not found by taking a geographic cure, sometimes the externals are difficult to overcome.

We of the United States of America don't have a lock on how life 'should' be. Some of us just like to act like we do.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

rev_miguel

Nov 29, 2002, 4:31 PM

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Re: [esperanza thanks for honest reply....and

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I question the quality of emotional thinking that goes into many replies as if some wrong has been done by stating an honest opinion. I agree that living in a gated community is out to lunch when you are in Mexico and yes the neighbors were wonderful and rythm of the day was set when the rooster crowed about 6am. But, after a while it all got boring and I missed some home things and that is essentially why I left.

jennifer rose

Nov 29, 2002, 6:43 PM

Post #22 of 31 (4108 views)

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Gated communities

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In Reply To

I agree that living in a gated community is out to lunch when you are in Mexico .

I do not live in a gated community, but it might surprise you to learn that the gated communities in Mexico are almost entitled populated by Mexicans. And that gated communities can range from something almost as spartan as Infonavit housing all the way to developments which would make Los Pinos look like a double-wide in Arkansas.

Folks have their reasons for living in gated communities -- streets safe for children to ride tricycles in the streets, clean trash-free streets, a code of conduct which often spells no loud music at night, a rooster-free environment, controlled access. The other night as I was driving a friend home who lived in Club Campestre -- a gated community in Morelia -- I commented on how pleasant and quiet her surroundings seemed. I mentioned the lack of graffiteros and cholos, and she responded that "But you have an abarrote within walking distance, and the camotero." I was reminded at once that I would surely be expelled from a gated community within minutes.

Mexican lifestyles -- and housing choices -- are as varied as anywhere else. Oh, all right, there probably is a shortage of double-wides. A gated community doesn't necessarily spell "expensive," nor does living in a mixed neighborhood necessarily mean "slum."

MarisolEnPlayas

Nov 29, 2002, 8:07 PM

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Re: [esperanza] Ooops, that's Napoleonic Code--nfmsg

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esperanza,

your post illustrated the beauty within mexico! i loved reading it.

i wish i lived somewhere as beautiful as that, however i live just outside the city. what i find, is that the waves of the ocean are very soothing in the morning and the surfers are so lovely to watch. i find the sound of the waves and my dogs running on the beach to be another wonderful thing i live with in mexico.

i love the sound of the children singing and exercising on the beach when they come down in groups to exercise. i love the sound of the teenagers as they enjoy life in groups together and the sound of the music they play. i love the fact that my neighbors and i enjoy one another and the fact that we've had carne asadas together.

sometimes i miss san francisco, or things about it, but i do love living here and wouldn't move back if you paid me.

scott

Nov 29, 2002, 10:00 PM

Post #24 of 31 (4053 views)

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Re: [jenniferrose] Gated communities

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Club Campestre -- a gated community in Morelia -

Gated community is an understatement.

More like the biggest houses I have ever seen in Mexico, all circling around a golf course, without a barred window in sight, with golf carts parked outside every other house, possibly beside the Ferrari, with at least three other cars, The BMW, VW, and a miscellaneous one..... I could handle living there... I think I saw a rental for N$28,000/month. That must be one of the small houses tucked away in the back...

keith

Nov 29, 2002, 10:21 PM

Post #25 of 31 (4055 views)

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Re: [rev_miguel] Please Tell My Why

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I spend most of my time in a very remote and rural place. I get a lot of peace and quiet, and my neighbors roosters and dogs and burros and bulls, and all those associated noises for the most part just contribute to the bucolic atmosphere. I quite like my own company, and my local friends pretty much respect that. At the same time there is always lots for me to participate in if I want to: work parties (faynas, tesguinadas), local celebrations, fishing trips. And there is a trickle of interesting tourism for outside stimulation. There is always plenty to do around the place to keep me as busy as I want to be. There is seldom a day goes by when at some time or other I'm not blown away by the beauty all around me. I sleep soundly, and I wake early and eagerly.

Even so, I very much like being able to return to the states for some months at a time to watch a whole lot of videos, drink coffee in a coffee shop and read the newspapers, visit friends from that world and to spend time in another beautiful place. But pretty soon I'm wishing I was back in the canyons (Mexico). Having a life in both places enriches my experience in both places. It does't have to be an either-or question. The answer can be "both." You might give that a try, Rev. I notice you are hanging around the Mexico Connects forum--you haven't entirely given up on the idea, right?

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