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sanjuan

May 27, 2013, 6:20 AM

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Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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A friend's "FM3" (No Inmigrante) expired about Novermber 11th 2012-right about the time the new visa regulations were coming into effect. Here in Chapala through a facilater he applied to get a Temporal visa. After several tries (for a three year and then a one year) the local INM office said he could only apply for a Permnente. He did and he got it. He would prefer a Temporal (one of the reasons being a foreign plated car that can't be imported). Since then INM has allowed people in his position to apply for a Temporal. Is there any way he can switch his Permanente to Temporal? (edited the last 3 words).


(This post was edited by sanjuan on May 27, 2013, 9:06 AM)



AlanMexicali


May 27, 2013, 6:27 AM

Post #2 of 41 (6622 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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A friend's "FM3" expired about Novermber 11th 2012-right about the time the new visa regulations were coming into effect. Here in Chapala through a facilater he applied to get a Temporal visa. After several tries (for a three year and then a one year) the local INM office said he could only apply for a Permnente. He did and he got it. He would prefer a Temporal (one of the reasons being a foreign plated car that can't be imported). Since then INM has allowed people in his position to apply for a Temporal. Is there any way he can switch his Temporal to Permanente?



He can switch if he has the financial solvency to do so at a Mexican Consulate in his country that his passport is on but I don´t know how one goes about getting out of having a new Residente Permanente first. Maybe someone else can chime in.

It appears getting rid of the vehicle might be the easy way out.

Also what is wrong with giving up a "J" or newer than 2007 NAFTA built vehicle if you plan to reside in Mexico permanently? Alan


(This post was edited by AlanMexicali on May 27, 2013, 6:49 AM)


jackak10

May 27, 2013, 8:28 AM

Post #3 of 41 (6557 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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It appears getting rid of the vehicle might be the easy way out.

Also what is wrong with giving up a "J" or newer than 2007 NAFTA built vehicle if you plan to reside in Mexico permanently? Alan


Thousands of dollars might be one reason. Dealers on the OTB know what is going on here and pay for vehicles accordingly.


YucaLandia


May 27, 2013, 8:41 AM

Post #4 of 41 (6547 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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A friend's "FM3" (No Inmigrante) expired about Novermber 11th 2012-right about the time the new visa regulations were coming into effect. Here in Chapala through a facilater he applied to get a Temporal visa. After several tries (for a three year and then a one year) the local INM office said he could only apply for a Permnente. He did and he got it. He would prefer a Temporal (one of the reasons being a foreign plated car that can't be imported). Since then INM has allowed people in his position to apply for a Temporal. Is there any way he can switch his Temporal to Permanente?


I think sanjuan accidentally flipped his terms in his last statement of the question.

As the TITLE of the thread says, he has Permanente and wants Temporal.

The answer is: "Yes".
He can surrender his Permanente, but the INM offices have the option to tell him that he can get the Temporal here in Mexico, or they can require that he leave Mexico, go to a Mexican Consulate at his home - especially if they want him to have his local Canadian or US (etc) police produce a police record for him....

His car became illegal the moment he signed for the Residente Permanente card, so it either has to be permanently imported, or ...l taken out of Mexico, TIP cancelled, and re-imported temporarily under his NEW Residente Temporal.

Hence, changing from his current Permanente over to Temporal very likely requires a trip out of the country - unless he can get his local INM office to agree to do it "in-country" and unless he can get the Guadalajara aeropuerto Aduana to permanently import his car - pending a customs broker's approval/agreement that it can be done with his situation.

Happy Trails,
steve
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


YucaLandia


May 27, 2013, 8:45 AM

Post #5 of 41 (6544 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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It appears getting rid of the vehicle might be the easy way out.

Also what is wrong with giving up a "J" or newer than 2007 NAFTA built vehicle if you plan to reside in Mexico permanently? Alan


Thousands of dollars might be one reason. Dealers on the OTB know what is going on here and pay for vehicles accordingly.


Fortunately, the USA is a big country, with lots of dealers who are not in the quirky border regions.
Gotta think outside the box sometimes.

Following the Title of the thread, he likely has to go back to his home district in the USA to apply for Residente Temporal, with proof of criminal record from his US/Canadian home .

This likely means a drive beyond the border, allowing him to sell his car for fair value. If he gets Residente Temporal and does not want to deal with all the hassles of trying to keep a foreign-plated car in Mexico, he could buy a car here after selling it NOB.

There are good values on used cars here, where we have found nice midsized, low-mileage Toyotas and Nissans at prices below US Kelley Book values.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 27, 2013, 11:50 AM)


AlanMexicali


May 27, 2013, 8:52 AM

Post #6 of 41 (6540 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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It appears getting rid of the vehicle might be the easy way out.

Also what is wrong with giving up a "J" or newer than 2007 NAFTA built vehicle if you plan to reside in Mexico permanently? Alan


Thousands of dollars might be one reason. Dealers on the OTB know what is going on here and pay for vehicles accordingly.


It doesn´t have to be a 4 day trip to Texas to dispose of a vehicle. One can do it elsewhere in the US or Canada.

In my view if you want to stay full time in Mexico that is one reason to get rid of something that is illegal or stay with a Residente Temporal [visitante] status for the longest you can and then dispose of the vehicle.

You are either a visitor part time or a resident full time eventually.

If you don´t work in Mexico, have enough money to drive elsewhere and have enough time, being retire usually provides that, then why would anyone in decent health need to rush off to Texas to sell a vehicle and lose money.

Most of us have friends and relative in various parts of the US or Canada.

Some people who are capable seem simply too lazy to do anything sensible and enjoy complaining about Mexican Customs and the NAFTA Agreement. IMO Alan


careyeroslib

May 27, 2013, 9:06 AM

Post #7 of 41 (6523 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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If it were me, I would ask this question at my local INM office informally, giving the reasons this person has and see how they react. Each office is individual in their way of doing things.

I personally don´t have too much faith that switching back to Temporal will, in the long run, guarantee that this person will be allowed to keep a foreign-plated car with an expired TIP, but that´s just a personal observation based on the reaction of various officials in our area. In the Puerto Vallarta area, at least some Aduana officials and Federales think that only tourists with current TIPs should be driving foreign plated cars and they don´t much care what Aduana in Mexico DF says or doesn´t say.

We´re in the same situation, and I totally understand why someone would consider doing this, BUT, I wouldn´t do it this way (switch back to Temporal even if I could). If we really couldn´t replace our Japanese vehicle (as opposed to not really being able to afford to right now), or do without, I´d switch back to a tourist visa and perhaps start from scratch. I know that some couples, for example, have one of them as Residente Permanente and the other as a tourist (They then drive out and in every 6 months to keep their TIPs current and the husband or wife can drive the vehicle legally. )


AlanMexicali


May 27, 2013, 9:20 AM

Post #8 of 41 (6510 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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In Reply To

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It appears getting rid of the vehicle might be the easy way out.

Also what is wrong with giving up a "J" or newer than 2007 NAFTA built vehicle if you plan to reside in Mexico permanently? Alan



Thousands of dollars might be one reason. Dealers on the OTB know what is going on here and pay for vehicles accordingly.


Fortunately, the USA is a big country, with lots of dealers who are not in the quirky border region.
Gotta think outside the box sometimes.

Following the Title of the thread, he likely has to go back to his home district in the USA to apply for Residente Temporal, with proof of criminal record from his US/Canadian home .

This likely means a drive beyond the border, allowing him to sell his car for fair value. If he gets Residente Temporal and does not want to deal with all the hassles of trying to keep a foreign-plated car in Mexico, he could buy a car here after selling it NOB.

There are good values on used cars here, where we have found nice midsized, low-mileage Toyotas and Nissans at prices below US Kelley Book values.
steve


Steve.

Exactly how I see it.

I have given up thinking of buying a 2007/2006 vehicle in San Diego recently and nationalizing it economically with the Mexicali broker and have been directed by savvy posters to dealers and one owner private sales in Guadalajara as SLP used cars are still more expensive than there.

Even if it is a bit more, my time and fun of hanging around Guadalajara for a week or more will be worth it. Alan


sanjuan

May 27, 2013, 11:51 AM

Post #9 of 41 (6445 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Keeping a foreign plated vehicle had nothing to do with his original preference to be Temporal. But he was forced to go Permenente and after he got it and found he may have to get rid of his foreign plated vehicle it was even more of a reason to prefer Temporal. I'll tell him to get a lawyer to work on his behalf with the local INM to see if he can change.


CanGuy78


May 27, 2013, 4:14 PM

Post #10 of 41 (6390 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Following the Title of the thread, he likely has to go back to his home district in the USA to apply for Residente Temporal, with proof of criminal record from his US/Canadian home .


I'm curious about the proof of criminal record portion here. When I went to my local consulate in Toronto there was no requirements regarding this. I did not have to submit anything to the consulate and I doubt they did a check because I went to the consulate on Thursday afternoon and picked up my passport on the following Monday or Tuesday.

This isn't to say I have a criminal record, because I don't, but I am certain there was no actual check at the Toronto consulate.


jackak10

May 27, 2013, 4:24 PM

Post #11 of 41 (6383 views)

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Re: [CanGuy78] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Following the Title of the thread, he likely has to go back to his home district in the USA to apply for Residente Temporal, with proof of criminal record from his US/Canadian home .


I'm curious about the proof of criminal record portion here. When I went to my local consulate in Toronto there was no requirements regarding this. I did not have to submit anything to the consulate and I doubt they did a check because I went to the consulate on Thursday afternoon and picked up my passport on the following Monday or Tuesday.

This isn't to say I have a criminal record, because I don't, but I am certain there was no actual check at the Toronto consulate.

I got my FM3 in Austin, Texas and a letter from my home town police dept saying I was clean was one of the things they wanted. On the Mexican consulate web site there were five things required. I got all five things, then found out when I got there that they didn't even want two of the things and required me to get two more things.

My introduction to The Mexican Way.


La Isla


May 27, 2013, 4:49 PM

Post #12 of 41 (6370 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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On the Mexican consulate web site there were five things required. I got all five things, then found out when I got there that they didn't even want two of the things and required me to get two more things.

My introduction to The Mexican Way.


Things like that happen because Mexican Consulates are part of the SRE (Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores) while INM is part of SEGOB (Secretaría de Gobernación). Unfortunately, these two branches of the federal government don't work together to coordinate the hoops foreigners have to jump through to get residence visas.


jackak10

May 27, 2013, 4:53 PM

Post #13 of 41 (6365 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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On the Mexican consulate web site there were five things required. I got all five things, then found out when I got there that they didn't even want two of the things and required me to get two more things.

My introduction to The Mexican Way.


Things like that happen because Mexican Consulates are part of the SRE (Secretaría de Relaciones Exteriores) while INM is part of SEGOB (Secretaría de Gobernación). Unfortunately, these two branches of the federal government don't work together to coordinate the hoops foreigners have to jump through to get residence visas.

I'm sure there's a logical (Mexican) reason for it.


robt65

May 27, 2013, 6:04 PM

Post #14 of 41 (6349 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Hello jackak 10,

You said . . . . . . . . . . "I'm sure there's a logical (Mexican) reason for it."

I can't vouch for that, but several years experience living in Mexico has taught me . . . . . . . . . that the only thing for sure in Mexico, is that nothing if for sure . . . . . . . . . . . . . and by the way, that also goes for logic as well. . . . . . . . , just gotta get used to it, because you sure aren't going to change it! (smiling)

Regards,
robt65


(This post was edited by robt65 on May 27, 2013, 6:22 PM)


CanGuy78


May 28, 2013, 6:14 AM

Post #15 of 41 (6262 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Following the Title of the thread, he likely has to go back to his home district in the USA to apply for Residente Temporal, with proof of criminal record from his US/Canadian home .


I'm curious about the proof of criminal record portion here. When I went to my local consulate in Toronto there was no requirements regarding this. I did not have to submit anything to the consulate and I doubt they did a check because I went to the consulate on Thursday afternoon and picked up my passport on the following Monday or Tuesday.

This isn't to say I have a criminal record, because I don't, but I am certain there was no actual check at the Toronto consulate.

I got my FM3 in Austin, Texas and a letter from my home town police dept saying I was clean was one of the things they wanted. On the Mexican consulate web site there were five things required. I got all five things, then found out when I got there that they didn't even want two of the things and required me to get two more things.

My introduction to The Mexican Way.


It seems each consulate has their own criteria, one hand not talking to the other and all that.

There was no mention of a criminal record check on the Canadian(Toronto) website, at least when I went for mine.


YucaLandia


May 28, 2013, 6:27 AM

Post #16 of 41 (6256 views)

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Re: [CanGuy78] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Informal reports by Canadians and Americans show that the criminal background check has been required by only some of the Consulates. The Mexican Embassy in D.C. initially required their applicants to get an FBI background check - which applicants for sensitive government jobs know can take up to a year. (schadenfreuden: sad or funny?) Chicago had been very rapidly processing applications, with no background checks. As such, it really is optional, applied at the discretion of the local Consulate. CanGuy is exactly right: Contact the Consulate you plan to use to find out their local requirements.
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 28, 2013, 6:30 AM)


stevebrtx

May 28, 2013, 9:17 AM

Post #17 of 41 (6188 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Contacting the consulate can be a problem, I tried calling Austin, San Antonio and Laredo and all you get is a recording and Austin didn't respond to email. If I have to get a police letter from my "hometown" it would be Riberas - ha.


Maesonna

May 28, 2013, 10:21 AM

Post #18 of 41 (6163 views)

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Re: [sanjuan] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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To answer the original question, I am just speculating here, but I think I do so on a firm basis of both 1) the way visas used to work before the reform, and 2) the nature of the changes in the reform.

My guess at the answer to the question, “Can he change from a permanente to a temporal?” is “no, but he can surrender his permanente and make a new (from scratch) application for a temporal, which may or may not be granted.”

What do others think?


CozICan

May 28, 2013, 10:32 AM

Post #19 of 41 (6151 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Maesonna... I think you are 100% correct... I think the Mexican Government made a conscious decision to cut down on the number of expats in Mexico with Temporary Visas and get them to commit to permanent status and to get most of the foreign plated vehicles off of the roads. I doubt if they will allow to go back from Permanent to Temporary without starting all over.

There are expats on Cozumel who have lived here for 10 years or more that do not want to go permanent. They want all the benefits of living in Mexico but do not want to commit to Mexico. I guess Mexico decided that you just can't have it both ways.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

CozICan


jackak10

May 28, 2013, 10:47 AM

Post #20 of 41 (6145 views)

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Re: [CozICan] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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I think the Mexican Government made a conscious decision to cut down on the number of expats in Mexico with Temporary Visas and get them to commit to permanent status and to get most of the foreign plated vehicles off of the roads. I doubt if they will allow to go back from Permanent to Temporary without starting all over.

In Manzanillo, I see far more Mexicans driving cars/trucks with USA plates than Gringos. Yanking the cars out from under expats will make but a dent in the "chocolate" car situation.


Gringal

May 28, 2013, 11:14 AM

Post #21 of 41 (6139 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Just trying to get this straight:
Mexicans are driving "chocolates" from the U.S., and assuming that they are Mexican citizens, does that give them a pass on driving those cars or are they breaking the law and subject to having the cars confiscated, the same as Permanente expats driving non-Mexican plated cars?

If a foreign born person goes on from Permanente status to Mexican citizenship status, does he/she then have the right to drive a non-Mexican plated car?

In other words, will the government seriously try to get rid of the whole box of chocolates?


jackak10

May 28, 2013, 11:22 AM

Post #22 of 41 (6133 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Just trying to get this straight:
Mexicans are driving "chocolates" from the U.S., and assuming that they are Mexican citizens, does that give them a pass on driving those cars or are they breaking the law and subject to having the cars confiscated, the same as Permanente expats driving non-Mexican plated cars?

If a foreign born person goes on from Permanente status to Mexican citizenship status, does he/she then have the right to drive a non-Mexican plated car?

In other words, will the government seriously try to get rid of the whole box of chocolates?

The US plated cars you see are illegal unless there is a TIP on the windshield that is attached to some foreigners tourist or temp documentation. Who knows what the gub'ment will actually do?


YucaLandia


May 28, 2013, 12:58 PM

Post #23 of 41 (6101 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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Just trying to get this straight:
Mexicans are driving "chocolates" from the U.S., and assuming that they are Mexican citizens, does that give them a pass on driving those cars or are they breaking the law and subject to having the cars confiscated, the same as Permanente expats driving non-Mexican plated cars?

If a foreign born person goes on from Permanente status to Mexican citizenship status, does he/she then have the right to drive a non-Mexican plated car?

In other words, will the government seriously try to get rid of the whole box of chocolates?


Gringal understands the issue very well.

Estimates for "chocolates" run between 8 million and 10 million - with most of them operated by Mexicans. This is exactly why mid-April, the 2 big auto dealers associations came out with strong press releases denouncing any plans by the Camara de Diputados to allow any of these foreign plated cars to be easily imported.

The dealers realize that 8 million fresh used cars officially dumped onto the Mexican market would wreck their businesses for a while.

This is one of those issues where the gringo concerns are just small potatoes compared to a big big box of chocolates.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 28, 2013, 12:59 PM)


stevebrtx

May 29, 2013, 5:48 AM

Post #24 of 41 (5972 views)

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Re: [CanGuy78] Switching from Permanente to Temporal

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I talked to a lady who came down 2 months ago through Dallas and they didn't require a police letter or health cert, both of which were required by Austin 5 years ago. But, they wouldn't accept her birth cert as "real", said it was "too old"? - so, she had to jump the hoops there and have TX certify it, can't wait to see what they think about mine.


YucaLandia


May 29, 2013, 11:23 AM

Post #25 of 41 (5908 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Valid Birth Certicates

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We got bitten by that same dog: They wanted fresh recent versions of my birth certificate, freshly apostilled by our Secretary of State (Illinois) office. It added a month's wait to the process, because many State's offices are not well-staffed to handle quick turn-around requests - since it takes a new document printed by Dept of Health/Vital Records/etc and then shuttle-over to the Sec. of State's office for the apostille.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com
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