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sioux4noff

May 12, 2013, 11:56 AM

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passport for kids?

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Our daughter and 2 grandsons, age 5 and 13, are going to take the bus fron Waco Texas to Guadalajara.
She plans on getting a passport card. Both Greyhound and the passport website say that children under 15 do not need a passport or passport card to re-enter the US. It implies both places that Mexico does not require the kids to have them, either.
Can anyone tell me if she can, in fact, get tourist visas for the boys without passports? It seems to me that greyhound would know what they're talking about as I'm sure this is a common occurrence.
Thanks for any help.



esperanza

May 12, 2013, 12:20 PM

Post #2 of 25 (12680 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids?

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Google is your friend: http://www.us-passport-service-guide.com/...eeds-a-passport.html

Bottom line, both children must have passports to return to the USA.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









sioux4noff

May 12, 2013, 1:47 PM

Post #3 of 25 (12664 views)

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Re: [esperanza] passport for kids?

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Thanks for your reply. The site you listed is NOT an official government site, I don't beleive.

But this http://www.getyouhome.gov/...lang_eng/eng_sa.html clearly says

Children: Beginning June 1, 2009, U.S. and Canadian citizen children under age 16 arriving by land or sea from contiguous territory may also present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, a Naturalization Certificate, or a Canadian Citizenship Card.

And Greyhound http://www.greyhound.com/....aspx#TraveltoCanada says Entry into the United States from Canada or Mexico

Effective June 1, 2009 All U.S. citizens entering the United States at sea or land ports of entry are required to have documents that comply with the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), most commonly a U.S. passport, a passport card, a trusted traveler card such as NEXUS, SENTRI or FAST, or an enhanced driver's license. See the complete list of WHTI-compliant documents


Customers who are 15 years of age or under will only require proof of citizenship (birth certificate, naturalization certificate or citizenship card). Customers who are 18 years of age or under and are traveling with a school, religious group, sports team or other organized group, under adult supervision and with parental/guardian consent, will require proof of citizenship (birth certificate, naturalization certificate or citizenship card).

Passengers without proper Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) compliant travel documents will not be permitted to board the bus, as you will be denied entry into the United States. Transportation will not be provided back to the trip of origin.

Visit the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Web site for more details on requirements for leaving or entering the U.S.


(This post was edited by sioux4noff on May 12, 2013, 1:49 PM)


sioux4noff

May 12, 2013, 1:52 PM

Post #4 of 25 (12655 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids?

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Actually, returning by land to the US, you will not be refused entry into the United States without a passport if you declare yourself to be a US citizen and can prove it by some means, such as a certified birth certificate.
I don't suggest anyone do that.
I'm trying to help my daughter avoid problems. And not have to spend the $80 to get the passport cards if they are not actually required.


fordmexico

May 12, 2013, 2:45 PM

Post #5 of 25 (12644 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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Another item to consider when traveling with children (from the Customs and Border Protection FAQ's);

"If a child (under the age of 18) is traveling with only one parent or someone who is not a parent or legal guardian, what paperwork should the adult have to indicate permission or legal authority to have that child in their care?

Due to the increasing incidents of child abductions in disputed custody cases and as possible victims of child pornography, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) strongly recommends that unless the child is accompanied by both parents, the adult have a note from the child's other parent (or, in the case of a child traveling with grandparents, uncles or aunts, sisters or brothers, friends, or in groups*, a note signed by both parents) stating "I acknowledge that my wife/husband/etc. is traveling out of the country with my son/daughter/group. He/She/They has/have my permission to do so." See our Q&A parental consent.

* School groups, teen tours, vacation groups.

CBP also suggests that this note be notarized.

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

Adults traveling with children should also be aware that, while the U.S. does not require this documentation, many other countries do; failure to produce notarized permission letters and/or birth certificates could result in travelers being refused entry (Canada has very strict requirements in this regard)."

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/268/~/children---child-traveling-with-one-parent-or-someone-who-is-not-a-parent-or


From the Mexican Consulate in Detroit,

"Important Notice for Traveling Minors
Based on the new regulations of the Mexican Migration Law, until the 24th of January in 2014, Mexican or foreign minors (under 18 years of age) can travel alone or accompanied by a third party of legal age (grandparent, aunt/uncle, or other) with a valid passport and without the consent of both parents or those with parental guardianship over the minor."

http://consulmex.sre.gob.mx/toronto/index.php/en/faq/262

Note the condition of "valid passport".

This has not come up much in the past but each year there is more scrutiny for children traveling alone or with only 1 parent.


sioux4noff

May 12, 2013, 3:09 PM

Post #6 of 25 (12636 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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In her case, she is the only parent listed on their birth certficates.

Of course, she had help :) , but their names are not on the birth certificates.


(This post was edited by sioux4noff on May 12, 2013, 3:10 PM)


Altahabana


May 12, 2013, 4:35 PM

Post #7 of 25 (12620 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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I donīt think you are going to get around the travelling without both parents requirement simply because there isnīt a father named on the birth certificate. But from personal experience you may not have any problems crossing back to the US. My wife crosses alone from Mexico to the US frequently with our five year old and has never had a problem.


I would strongly recommend that you spring for Passports. Passports eliminate most if not all problems for minors travelling internationally. Unless this is a one and done trip, the benefit of having a Passport far outweighs the relatively insignificant expense.


sioux4noff

May 12, 2013, 10:22 PM

Post #8 of 25 (12590 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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If there is no father named, how would any authorities know who should be giving permission?
There are cases, and I'm not saying this is or isn't one, where the mother really does not know who the father is.


donemry

May 13, 2013, 6:47 AM

Post #9 of 25 (12571 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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In addition, the "father" named on the birth certificate may not have legal status for the child either.


Vichil

May 13, 2013, 8:51 AM

Post #10 of 25 (12545 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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We took a Mexican child (13 year old) to Europe and we had to have passport and parental authorization that was notarized and on the parental authorization we were named the legal tutors for the duration of the trip. In case of accidents and so on we were allowed by both prents to have the child treated. We also had insurrance for him.
That was a requirement from France and the form came from the French consulate.

If the children have no legal father or guardian but the mother I would have a lawyer put that in wrting and have it officially translated in Spanish...just in case. I would also have a passport made for them. Better err on the safe side than having a problem from either side.
Mexico and France really check the papers went we went through the border.


(This post was edited by Vichil on May 13, 2013, 9:05 AM)


sioux4noff

May 13, 2013, 3:51 PM

Post #11 of 25 (12507 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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Even though it doesn't appear they need it, we are going to go ahead and give her the money so they can get passport cards. At $10 each for the photos and $40 each for the passport cards, on top of the $10 photos for herself and her $55 fee, she was hoping to be able to skip that expense.
Actual passport books would kick the cost up to fees of $135 for her, $105 each for the kids


sioux4noff

May 19, 2013, 6:59 AM

Post #12 of 25 (12413 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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A follow-up. After several trips to the passport office to ensure she had the correct douments, (mostly to check that the birth certificates she had were acceptable) the person in the passport office told my daughter she did not need passports or passport cards for the children for her trip to Mexico.
As best as I can tell from Mexican sites about getting a tourist visa, they are correct.


mazbeach

May 19, 2013, 8:28 AM

Post #13 of 25 (12397 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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A government office in the US will never, ever be able to anticipate what you might encounter in a foreign country. Official reactions and requirements here vary from place to place for different things. Why not take the easy and assured way by getting the passports? Too often people from the US try to stand on principal and end up getting knocked down.


esperanza

May 19, 2013, 9:34 AM

Post #14 of 25 (12388 views)

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Re: [mazbeach] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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I agree 100% with what mazbeach said. Not to have a passport--on advice given by someone who is not in this country--is looking for a hassle. The hassle won't be when she leaves the USA. If it happens, it will be when she tries to bring the children back.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









mazbeach

May 19, 2013, 9:43 AM

Post #15 of 25 (12385 views)

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Re: [esperanza] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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To which I would add that officials in several locales here are sensitive to the unfortunate circumstance of kids being brought south to avoid northern authorities. Just because you don't think you have to produce ID doesn't mean that somebody won't demand it anyway. And if you don't have it .....


sioux4noff

May 19, 2013, 1:36 PM

Post #16 of 25 (12364 views)

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Re: [esperanza] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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No trouble returning to the US. There is clear documentation on the pertinent website which can be printed out that specifies children under 16 do not need a passport for land crossings.
I can't find an equivalent Mexican website.


(This post was edited by sioux4noff on May 19, 2013, 2:25 PM)


chinagringo


May 19, 2013, 5:25 PM

Post #17 of 25 (12336 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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As one who had a US Passport ASAP after birth when it was quite common to be listed on a parent's Passport, owning my own was one of the very first learning experiences in handling and being responsible for my own documents. It also provided me with the opportunities to fly internationally on my own at a very early age.

A statement from the US State Dept. website: "All minors regardless of age, including newborns and infants, must have their own passport when traveling internationally by air"

So they may not need one for their current trip but what happens should grandma need an immediate visit sometime down the road that can only be accomplished using air travel?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



sioux4noff

May 19, 2013, 8:19 PM

Post #18 of 25 (12319 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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We will cross that proverbial bridge when we come to it. I can't think of any reason the kids would need to rush to Mexico that they couldn't come by bus.

I try to be very tolerant of tangential responses on internet forums, but really, what I am looking for is someone who has entered Mexico by land with children under 16 who don't have passports. Or knows someone who that applies to. Can the kids enter Mexico by land and get an FMM without a passport? Or where I can find that information, which Mexican government website would cover that?

Thank you everyone for the unsolicited advice, and semi-useful things. I have researched this a lot, and know all about traveling by air for kids, and what adults need for land crossings, and that kids under 16 really do not need passports to re-enter the US by land.

I just have this very specific question and can't find out where to get an answer.


CozumelComplete


May 29, 2013, 4:45 PM

Post #19 of 25 (12140 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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My Grandson has had his passport since he was 4 months old...BUT..his father also is NOT on the BC. We needed nothing from him to get a passport for Dallas...and when he travels his Mom always has his BC along with the passport..that IS SUFFICIENT to show there is no other parent of record. Dallas has traveled to Mexico and other countries more often then most kids and has never had a problem.
Patricia A Holt
Cozumel The Complete Guide II


sioux4noff

May 29, 2013, 5:12 PM

Post #20 of 25 (12134 views)

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Re: [CozumelComplete] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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Thank you.


rayitodeluna

Jun 3, 2013, 11:00 AM

Post #21 of 25 (12031 views)

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Re: [sioux4noff] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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We will cross that proverbial bridge when we come to it. I can't think of any reason the kids would need to rush to Mexico that they couldn't come by bus.

I try to be very tolerant of tangential responses on internet forums, but really, what I am looking for is someone who has entered Mexico by land with children under 16 who don't have passports. Or knows someone who that applies to. Can the kids enter Mexico by land and get an FMM without a passport? Or where I can find that information, which Mexican government website would cover that?

Thank you everyone for the unsolicited advice, and semi-useful things. I have researched this a lot, and know all about traveling by air for kids, and what adults need for land crossings, and that kids under 16 really do not need passports to re-enter the US by land.

I just have this very specific question and can't find out where to get an answer.


This applies to me! Although both my daughters have passports, the older one misplaced hers once in the middle of a trip to Texas. I ried and cried and cried thinking they wouldnt let us enter Mexico (ie, come home to our family/my husband /their father) . After 3 hours of frantically looking at every place we went that day, I turned around and headed down the Anzulduas Bridge back into Mexico.

Not only did the official not ask to see their passports, he didnt even ask to see mine. He asked where we were going and I replied "home, we live in DF with my husband and suegros" he asked if we were Americans and I said yes. Then he waved us on.

Did I renew her FMM that day like I was supposed to? No. Is the world going to end because of it? No. Is that the law? No, and I would never advise someone to break the law.

The NEXT day, I left my oldest with my husband there in Reynosa for the morning. When I crossed back into the States, the border patrol guy was the same one who we spoke to the day before when crossing. He remembered I had TWO daughters, and asked me where she was. When I explained she had lost her passport, he told me "American citizens can NEVER be denied entry to this country. You could show up at the border naked and we could find a way to look you up. Bringing a copy of drivers license, or birth certs makes it easier but it is not necessary, we can always find a way."

So the THIRD day I took my oldest with me (from Mxico back to the US) and we encountered a different border patrol guy. He asked where her passport was, and I said it was lost. He clicked on his comouter for 30 seconds, found her and let us through.

A note on crossing without both parents - my children have different last names than mine on my passport (havent changed my passport yet) . We havent crossed with my husband since our initial crossing into mexico when we moved down. Everyone asks where their father is, and I explain he is waiting in Mexico and isnt legally allowed to cross with us. Then they wave us on. The same set of questions when crossing by air as by land.

I know my situation isnt 100% the same as what you are experiencing, but based on my personal experiences you can definately cross them into Mexico for a short visit. An immigration office at the border would be the best place to call to clarify what other documents outside of a passport would be recommendend for the FMM application. You will in no way whatsoever have problems with th children having a single mother, especially since no father is listed on the birth certificate. If the last names of the children are the same as the mother it will be even easier. There are tons of single parents that travel with their children. I personally know many American wives of mexican husbands who frequently cross alone with their children , and besides the usual "why cant your husband cross?" questioning, they have never had a problem.

Let me lookfor a number of one of the aduana officers in Reynosa who helped us the first time we crossed, she was very sweet and told us to call if we ever had questions or problems. Maybe she can direct me to the right person to ask your specific question.

~~~~~~ Enjoying life in northern D.F. with our family of Americans and chilangos.
Family and expat blog here : http://threecurlygirlys.blogspot.mx/ ~~~~~~


Caarina12

Jun 30, 2013, 5:13 PM

Post #22 of 25 (11685 views)

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Re: [rayitodeluna] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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I have traveled to Mexico with my son MANY times since his birth, and I would never enter or leave the country without proper documentation. US Border patrol agents on land and IMN officers in Mexico have always checked BOTH of our documents when crossing either via land or air.

I have personally seen people turned away at the airport (Dulles) for NOT having proper identification to travel with their child to Mexico. Airlines take this very seriously. Seeing crying children and screaming parents watching their plane take off to Cancun without them because they didn't have proper identification and permission forms was all it took for me to vow never to take that risk. Why take the chance of a major and costly hassle?

Caarina


rayitodeluna

Jun 30, 2013, 6:18 PM

Post #23 of 25 (11671 views)

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Re: [Caarina12] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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I have traveled to Mexico with my son MANY times since his birth, and I would never enter or leave the country without proper documentation. US Border patrol agents on land and IMN officers in Mexico have always checked BOTH of our documents when crossing either via land or air.

I have personally seen people turned away at the airport (Dulles) for NOT having proper identification to travel with their child to Mexico. Airlines take this very seriously. Seeing crying children and screaming parents watching their plane take off to Cancun without them because they didn't have proper identification and permission forms was all it took for me to vow never to take that risk. Why take the chance of a major and costly hassle?

Caarina


Yes, traveling by air is certainly a different beast all together.

~~~~~~ Enjoying life in northern D.F. with our family of Americans and chilangos.
Family and expat blog here : http://threecurlygirlys.blogspot.mx/ ~~~~~~


soulpatch

Aug 5, 2013, 8:42 PM

Post #24 of 25 (11052 views)

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Re: [rayitodeluna] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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Very late response to this but, yes, I tried this at San Ysidro with my young kids and no passports just to see.
I showed them birth certs but they said no passport no FMM.
Good thing I had their passports!
They looked at me a bit funny but I had heard this same conflicting argument on the baja boards so I thought I'd give it a whirl...
All it takes is on officer to say no and what are you going to do.
Passports smooth a lot of little bumps in the road and takes a lot of guessing and thinking out of the equation for everybody.
Peace of mind is worth a few bucks if the grandfolks are willing to spring for it.


sioux4noff

Aug 5, 2013, 10:16 PM

Post #25 of 25 (11044 views)

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Re: [soulpatch] passport for kids? Another Consideration

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As it turned out, our daughter did get passport cards for her kids. There was no problem getting the FMMs and no one asked about the other parent, or why they had different last names than her, or anything else. But she was prepared!
The person at the FMM office even filled out all her paperwork for her. She said it was very fastand easy to do. Yay!
They are here now enjoying their vacation. They didn't even complain (much) about the 23 hour bus trip.
 
 
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