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chicois8

May 8, 2013, 2:04 PM

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instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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I plan to a purchase a gas tankless water heater in the USA for my place in Mexico, most all sites ask if the gas is propane or natural gas, something to do with the size of the Venturi in the gas valve...does anyone know which type of gas gets delivered in the 33kilo gas cylinders to homes in Mexico?
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California



RickS


May 8, 2013, 3:09 PM

Post #2 of 25 (39087 views)

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Re: [chicois8] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Propane


Rolly


May 8, 2013, 3:11 PM

Post #3 of 25 (39086 views)

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Re: [chicois8] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Propane comes in tanks..
Natural gas comes piped into the house from a main in the street.
Very little natural gas for domestic use in México.

Rolly Pirate


johanson


May 8, 2013, 3:21 PM

Post #4 of 25 (39083 views)

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Re: [Rolly] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Continuing on with Rolly's comments, I understand that the gas here is almost pure but not perhaps pure propane. I do know that we need different sized jets or gas outlets here in Mexico, than what is considered standard for natural gas in the states. (Because what we get in Mexico is different than the US natural gas).

And if I remember correctly our natural gas in WA state had a small amount of propane added to it.


(This post was edited by johanson on May 8, 2013, 3:33 PM)


fordmexico

May 9, 2013, 8:20 AM

Post #5 of 25 (39039 views)

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Re: [chicois8] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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LP gas in Mexico is a mixture of propane AND butane. From a MexConnect article by J. Brad Grieve.

http://www.mexconnect.com/...-in-your-mexico-home

I found in much more economical to purchase a tankless heater here in Mexico. The heaters produced here are also more suited to the Mexican environment including; type and pressure of the gas being used, the water pressure at intake and the exhaust solutions available. The heaters here generally only require a battery for ignition and do not require an electric connection.

We ended up buying a Calorex 13 L model from Home Depot. The price now is $4188 MXN Pesos or about $350-$360. It supplies us with sufficient hot water for 2 simultaneous showers plus 1 faucet. Installation cost was about $300 MNX pesos utilizing a local handyman. We have had it for 2 years now with no problems. We also considered the Cinsa brand. We did not consider Bosch because of numerous complaints about installation issues and inadequate water pressure.


(This post was edited by Rolly on May 9, 2013, 8:46 AM)


stevebrtx

May 9, 2013, 8:42 AM

Post #6 of 25 (39033 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Great info because over the last 5 years I've read a number of folks who had problems specifically with pressure and they were using Bosch etc. A couple even gave up and went back to tanks. I rent a place and living alone only use hot water in the morning for a shower so I light the tank, wait 15 min and shower, turn it off and it cuts my propane bill in half, but it's a nuisance. I may check into "investing" in the house, I'll be here another 14 months, might be worth it.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

(This post was edited by stevebrtx on May 9, 2013, 8:44 AM)


chicois8

May 9, 2013, 11:50 AM

Post #7 of 25 (39003 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Thank you,all my questions have been answered by you...
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


YucaLandia


May 9, 2013, 1:28 PM

Post #8 of 25 (38990 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Hey steve,
Same issue here on Bosch heaters for 3 different sets of friends: Clog easily with sarro (scale), really finicky about having enough water pressure (requiring a stout hydropneumatico to get enough pressure - which causes separate problems with the plumbing that is found in most Mexican homes**), and the Bosch units just have not been reliable under typical Mexican conditions.

**Before chicois8 buys the on-demand water heater in the States, they may want to consider just how reliable their model of heater is with scale build-up, and how much pressure it needs to function. The high pressure needed to operate many US or Canadian tankless heaters is just too much for the oft-cobbled plumbing of Mexican homes - where plumbers use PVC parts that do not fit together, and then they just are daubed with extra glue to get them to seal under gravity fed pressures. Adding a hydropneumatico to one of these systems (to drive the tankless heater) often creates leaks in PVC systems - which is no fun when the leaks occur inside walls and under the floors. Even copper systems here often have poorly soldered joints that hold pressure fine for years with gravity feed, and then sprout leaks when the pressure pump is added.

In contrast: I have installed three Indugas models in three different homes, and all are perking along just fine after 6 years. The Indugas heaters I got work well with low pressures, (even working with gravity-fed systems), and they clean easily with a few gallons of vinegar circulated through them.
steve

Edited to identify the correct OP.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 9, 2013, 2:31 PM)


fordmexico

May 9, 2013, 1:40 PM

Post #9 of 25 (38983 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Fordmexico bought an instant water heater here in Tlanepantla, Mexico. I am not buying one in the USA. We have a " hydropneumatico" system here in Mexico. Our Calorex water heater works equally well with only a gravity feed from our tinaco as it does with our " hydropneumatico" pump on.


YucaLandia


May 9, 2013, 2:30 PM

Post #10 of 25 (38974 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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oooops. I typed in the wrong name. You are correct, the Calorex models are not pressure sensitive.
I fixed the post above to correct the mistake.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


stevebrtx

May 9, 2013, 2:35 PM

Post #11 of 25 (38969 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Can they be installed outside? My heater is outside and not under cover.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


YucaLandia


May 9, 2013, 5:45 PM

Post #12 of 25 (38950 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Yes.

They are rectangular, wall mounted units:




I am not saying these are the best heaters, just an example of tankless on-demand heater that I bought here and are still working, even with low gravity fed pressures. The models we installed make 7 L/min of hot water - just enough for running a bathroom and kitchen sink at the same time.

Sidelight: We included tees and valves on the latest installation we made, so we could easily isolate the tankless heater from the house water system and circulate vinegar or other dilute acids through the coils to remove scale build-up.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


AlanMexicali


May 10, 2013, 3:19 AM

Post #13 of 25 (38936 views)

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Re: [chicois8] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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In Reply To
I plan to a purchase a gas tankless water heater in the USA for my place in Mexico, most all sites ask if the gas is propane or natural gas, something to do with the size of the Venturi in the gas valve...does anyone know which type of gas gets delivered in the 33kilo gas cylinders to homes in Mexico?


We have this model and it works great. It costs about $2700.00 pesos and we have 5 bathrooms.

http://www.encanto.com.mx/....php?products_id=606

We have a large solar hot water system but when cloudy or raining for days on end it delivers hot water fast. Alan


(This post was edited by Rolly on May 10, 2013, 5:18 AM)


stevebrtx

May 21, 2013, 11:09 AM

Post #14 of 25 (38752 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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I was just in Home Depot Guad and looked at the small Calorex, only $2185MXD. My owners are coming in about a month, I may offer to buy the heater is they'll pay to install.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


MangoTree

Oct 22, 2014, 4:36 AM

Post #15 of 25 (31644 views)

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instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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I realize this thread is over a year old but thought it might be more appropriate to add on rather than create a new thread.

We have been in this house for almost a year now. One of the things that sold my wife on this house was that it has a nice big bath tub. But shortly after moving in we realized that the hot water tank wasn't sufficient to fill the tub. So - once a week I have been watching my wife use pots and pans to heat water on the gas stove and walk the pots across the house to fill the bath tub a few inches and pretend to enjoy herself....

Last week I noticed a CalORex 13L at Costco and picked it up. Had it installed 2 days ago now. Today we are feeling that maybe we should have done a little more research first.

Ok - I can appreciate that if there is cold water in the pipes it has to come out at the sink before any hot water can - but it sure does take a while. Our biggest problem is that you can't mix hot and cold water at the same time. For example, this morning I was shaving and the water got too hot. When I turn the cold water knob - poof - no more hot water. (Same thing happened in the shower yesterday - that can wake you up in a hurry). This 'feature' is mentioned in the documentation. Perhaps it is a matter of properly adjusting the max temp at the heater. Perhaps a creative plumber can work some magic with the piping.

We have to try and figure this out while we can still return this thing to Costco - if that's what it comes down to.


AlanMexicali


Oct 22, 2014, 7:10 AM

Post #16 of 25 (31625 views)

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Re: [lhpdiver1] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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In Reply To
I realize this thread is over a year old but thought it might be more appropriate to add on rather than create a new thread.

We have been in this house for almost a year now. One of the things that sold my wife on this house was that it has a nice big bath tub. But shortly after moving in we realized that the hot water tank wasn't sufficient to fill the tub. So - once a week I have been watching my wife use pots and pans to heat water on the gas stove and walk the pots across the house to fill the bath tub a few inches and pretend to enjoy herself....

Last week I noticed a CalORex 13L at Costco and picked it up. Had it installed 2 days ago now. Today we are feeling that maybe we should have done a little more research first.

Ok - I can appreciate that if there is cold water in the pipes it has to come out at the sink before any hot water can - but it sure does take a while. Our biggest problem is that you can't mix hot and cold water at the same time. For example, this morning I was shaving and the water got too hot. When I turn the cold water knob - poof - no more hot water. (Same thing happened in the shower yesterday - that can wake you up in a hurry). This 'feature' is mentioned in the documentation. Perhaps it is a matter of properly adjusting the max temp at the heater. Perhaps a creative plumber can work some magic with the piping.

We have to try and figure this out while we can still return this thing to Costco - if that's what it comes down to.


It takes a bit of getting used to. Keep the boiler on high. First you get the hot water in the shower going before getting in and let it stabalize to hot. Then you have to adjust the cold very slightly a few times to keep the temperature constant during the shower.

When filling the tub run the hot water on full hot into the tub with the drain open so you do not get to much cold water in first. Then close the drain and run all hot water in and don´t get in until it has filled as the hot will mix with the cool water later on and be the right temperature. If you are in the tub and it cools off add some more hot water later.


(This post was edited by AlanMexicali on Oct 22, 2014, 7:16 AM)


Maesonna

Oct 22, 2014, 4:11 PM

Post #17 of 25 (31577 views)

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Re: [lhpdiver1] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Not able to control the temperature? Something sounds odd with your set-up. We’ve had tankless heaters ever since we built 15 years ago, and as soon as the hot water reaches the shower head, we adjust the temperature exactly the same as we would if we had tank heaters.

The wait while the cold water empties out of the pipes ahead of the hot water is a function of how far the heater is located from the point of use. Had I known, I would have set one moderate-sized heater next to each bathroom instead of two huge heaters at a single location, which is quite far from the downstairs bathroom.

With a bath, you can do as Alan describes. With a shower, when I’m feeling conservationist, I let the cold water run into a bucket which is kept for the next time someone needs to flush the toilet.


RickS


Oct 22, 2014, 7:19 PM

Post #18 of 25 (31557 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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"I let the cold water run into a bucket which is kept for the next time someone needs to flush the toilet."

Love it! If only more folks were as conscientious as you....


CozICan

Oct 22, 2014, 7:27 PM

Post #19 of 25 (31556 views)

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Re: [Maesonna] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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I installed a instantaneous hot water heater a year ago in September that came with 2 year warranty. After 11 months the gas valve stopped functioning so I went to Boxito where I purchased it. They gave me a toll free number to call for service and the service man came to my house within 2 days. He checked it out and agreed with me that the problem was the gas valve and said he would have to order a new valve. One week later Boxito called and said that they had a brand new unit for me.
The new unit that I received was completely redesigned and had the same number except for the “A” added to the end.
I was more than happy with the old unit before the valve stopped working but this new unit works even better. The old one needed the shower to be flowing full fore to open the gas valve but this unit the faucet only needs to be flowing with about a quarter of the flow. It is the Cinsa brand 6 lts/min and it more than meets my demands, model number CIN06 A. I have it set at a fairly low setting but it gets more than hot enough for me., I can’t imagine needing anything for. It sells for 1,800 pesos which is about half the price of most other similar units. Another plus it that the only electrical involved is 2 “D” size batteries.

I just found this link to Home Depot, Mexico for the same unit.
http://www.homedepot.com.mx/...a-instantaneo-6-l-lp

I also need to add that with no change to my life style my propane consumption has gone down from a 30 kg tanks lasting about 1 1/2 months and I now get more that 4 months from a tank. When I had a regular hot water heater it was always set at minimum temperature. That new heater has almost paid for itself already.


(This post was edited by RickS on Oct 22, 2014, 7:56 PM)


MangoTree

Oct 23, 2014, 4:48 PM

Post #20 of 25 (31502 views)

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Re: [AlanMexicali] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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To give my wife a little piece of mind - and for a mere 250 pesos - we had the CalORex expert stop by today to check out the system. He had no problem with the install. He did remove some 'regulators' from the shower heads which limited flow and impeded the tank-less heater. He suggested we replace our propane regulators - probably 18 years old. Said he needed to service the unit once a year (700 pesos). Also said when we clean the tinaco we need to route the water away from the heater (have to figure that out).


YucaLandia


Oct 24, 2014, 11:50 AM

Post #21 of 25 (31464 views)

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Re: [lhpdiver1] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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I'm curious about what they meant about "cleaning the tinaco".

Are they talking about getting out sarro? (scale?)

If so, we've had good luck using a 4 ft long "wand" of PVC tubing to suck out the crystals of precipitated sarro, attached to a siphon hose. Once the siphon action is started, I poke away at the sarro and suck up the white scale with the wand. If we route the siphon hose into a bucket, the sarro is trapped in the bottom of the bucket and does not flow off the roof.

In this sort of approach, you might not have to "route the water away from the heater" ?

Or was your plumber planning to dump a bunch of muriatic acid?
One friend of ours cleans his tinaco, and then he circulates dilute acid through his tankless heater with a pump.

It's always fun to pick-up new tricks to doing things.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


MangoTree

Oct 25, 2014, 3:46 AM

Post #22 of 25 (31438 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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We've cleaned the tinaco twice this year - once in January (since the previous owner very rarely cleaned it) and again last week (the community gardeners had a plumbing issue that filled our tinaco with muddy water). After emptying our gardener climbs into the tank with a scrub brush and soapy water (he is 20 years younger than me) then uses a sponge. When clean we fill the tinaco and throw in 5 gallons of concentrated chlorine. Then in the house we open all sink valves/ shower heads etc and flush the chlorinated water through the system. The gardener also climbed down into the cistern earlier this year - but since it is used primarily for the garden we do not use chlorine there.

The community well water is pretty good - supposedly of better quality than SAPAC (Cuernavaca Public Works). Some neighbors drink it from the tap.


YucaLandia


Oct 25, 2014, 6:51 AM

Post #23 of 25 (31423 views)

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Re: [lhpdiver1] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Cool.

5 gal of chlorine (bleach?) seems like a lot.

Did you know that 1/2 cup of normal unscented laundry bleach adds enough free chlorine to disinfect a 1100 L tinaco of clear drinking water to give free chlorine levels that are 2X higher than EPA drinking water and swimming pool standards?

If you have lots of organic carbon in the system (like lots of algae growing in the pipes, or lots of dead rotting leaves), then you clean out the bulk organic material, and add more chlorine, otherwise 1/2 cup is plenty per 275 gal of clear water.

My background: 37 years as a public health chemist/scientist - with specialization in water treatment and testing.

Happy Trails,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


MangoTree

Oct 25, 2014, 12:18 PM

Post #24 of 25 (31402 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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I appreciate your experience - but even in Florida we added 2.5 gallons of chlorine to the swimming pool every week. I must admit that it takes a good 3-4 days for the water in the shower to return to normal after our 'cleanings'.


YucaLandia


Oct 25, 2014, 12:56 PM

Post #25 of 25 (31398 views)

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Re: [lhpdiver1] instant tankless gas hot water heater?

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Good points.

Swimming pools often have 20,000 L to 75,000 L - needing a lot more chlorine, especially when it rains.
Happy Trails,
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com
 
 
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