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YucaLandia


Apr 30, 2013, 1:12 PM

Post #1 of 33 (11183 views)

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Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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There have been recent twists in various local Aduana office personnel's advice about how Residente Permanentes must take their foreign-plated TIP cars out of Mexico, including the admonition to "go to the same Aduana border crossing where you got the TIP", when you go to surrender and cancel out your old TIP.

We initially concluded that there must be some disconnects between the local Aduana office's records, the national Aduana database of VINs and TIPs, and the Aduana national database on pedimentos. A close friend's recent car trip out of Mexico, and back into Mexico confirmed our concerns, and exposed a few more.

It turns out that if you use a different Aduana office to cancel out your old TIP than the office where the TIP was originally issued, the Aduana systems may take weeks to months to update that the TIP has been cancelled. Further, even when you legally officially permanently import your (previous TIP) vehicle, Aduana's national database of pedimentos takes weeks to months to update that the pedimento has been issued for that VIN. and The local electronic computerized VIN checkers that Aduana uses to look for chocolates are also not updated with either the old TIP cancellation nor the new pedimento information.

Why are these things an issue?

The police and Aduana officials are currently on the lookout for foreign-plated cars, and Mexican plated cars, being driven by foreigners - to check to see if the cars are "chocolates", and confiscate them. Lawyer Spencer McMullin reports that in Guadalajara and Chapala, they are finding lots of "chocolate" cars with falsely-obtained Mexican plates, but no valid pedimentos. He reports that many unscrupulous dealers and brokers are taking $$# from desperate Residente Permanentes (and some Temporal) gringos for "paper-only" imports, and then giving the gringos falsely obtained Mexican license plates (but no valid pedimento).

If you get stopped driving a permanently imported car, the Aduana-Tamaulipas supervisor said that owners should carry a copy of their pedimento with them to prove valid importation.

The whole story, with supporting details, can be read at: Aduana Foreign Plated Car TIP and Pedimento Systems Updates
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Apr 30, 2013, 1:34 PM)



stevebrtx

Apr 30, 2013, 1:35 PM

Post #2 of 33 (11167 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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That time delay could bite me later this year. I'll be going back NOB through Bridge #2 where I got the TIP and will cancel there, then apply for a new Temporal which hopefully will only take a couple of days, then reenter and get a new TIP - but, if there is a delay the old TIP will still be showing as "in" country, I'll be screwed. There are days when I personally hope that happens so I can just turn around and stay NOB and tell them to keep MX. Thanks, but no thanks, I don't need the hassle at this age.


YucaLandia


Apr 30, 2013, 1:49 PM

Post #3 of 33 (11152 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Hey Steve,
If you cancel the TIP at the same Aduana crossing as when you return into Mexico, the system works for you. Say you exit at Nuevo Laredo, and surrender the TIP there. When you return to Mexico, to get a new TIP, if you go back to Aduana de Nuevo Laredo, your prior TIP cancellation information will be in the Nuevo Laredo systems - so, they have local proof that you cancelled the old TIP.

If you read the details of the Yucalandia article, when the Tamaulipas Aduana supervisor got the word (by phone from Aduana de Progreso), he released our friend's car, and sent him happily on his way.

The point of the post is that the systems do work, but they are very slow to update.

This means cautious folk should carry clear documentation of your vehicle's past and current status (e.g. carrying the Aduana document proving that you cancelled the old TIP and carrying a copy of your new pedimento or of your new TIP) .
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


stevebrtx

Apr 30, 2013, 2:19 PM

Post #4 of 33 (11137 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Thanks, I haven't had time to read the article, but that makes sense and of course I'd have all the paper with me from a few days previous so it will probably work. But wow, how can you so totally goof something up that should be relatively simple? And I understand chocolates, I was stopped the other day and I'm sure it was for that, or the new excuse, "permanente" - but, I really don't care, or even mind, I'm legal, have all my paperwork and I love to see the look on their faces when they realize they got squat by stopping me and the smile fades from their faces.

There is something to be said for this time of life (other than getting old sucks) but I have a document from Lakeway, TX police saying "no wants, no warrants, good guy" and the IRS is happy, I owe nothing to any credit card company and so my credit rating is good - wow, if I'd known how great it is to be 70, I'd have done it a long time ago.


jackak10

Apr 30, 2013, 2:45 PM

Post #5 of 33 (11129 views)

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Re: Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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This is very troubling. So I could drive 1,000 miles across Mexico, cross the border, turn in my TIP I got 4 years ago, etc. Then apply with a "licensed" broker to get the proper paperwork, pedimento and so on and still run a very real risk of being sold fraudulent paperwork that could get me in big trouble during or after my 1,000 mile journey back across this great country again.

What's wrong with this picture?

I wonder if maybe I should just scrape off my TIP that is on the windshield, take off my South Dakota plates, roll the car to the middle of the busiest intersection at rush hour, and set the car on fire.


stevebrtx

Apr 30, 2013, 3:10 PM

Post #6 of 33 (11120 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Can I watch? I may throw in a trailer just for good measure.


YucaLandia


Apr 30, 2013, 3:51 PM

Post #7 of 33 (11091 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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In Reply To
This is very troubling. So I could drive 1,000 miles across Mexico, cross the border, turn in my TIP I got 4 years ago, etc. Then apply with a "licensed" broker to get the proper paperwork, pedimento and so on and still run a very real risk of being sold fraudulent paperwork that could get me in big trouble during or after my 1,000 mile journey back across this great country again.

What's wrong with this picture?

I wonder if maybe I should just scrape off my TIP that is on the windshield, take off my South Dakota plates, roll the car to the middle of the busiest intersection at rush hour, and set the car on fire.


There's nothing significant "wrong with this picture".

As I wrote above, the problems arise from:
~ Falsely obtained Mexican license plates when there is NO pedimento.

~ Problems that arise from not carrying the proper paperwork in your car.

If you get a legitimate pedimento by importing the car at the border, then you should have no problems.
and
Carry the Aduana document proving you surrendered your old TIP, and carry the current TIP (if you went for another temporary import), or carry a copy of the Aduana pedimento if you permanently import the car.

As I wrote above: When they had the proper documents, Aduana "released our friend's car, and sent him happily on his way."

The delay occurred because the driver did not have the proper documents with him.

steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Apr 30, 2013, 3:54 PM)


barmarr

Apr 30, 2013, 3:55 PM

Post #8 of 33 (11086 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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This is very upsetting news.

We just drove 2,400 miles RT from Bucerias to San Luis Rio Colorado where we turned in our 5 year old TIP (originally issued from Nogales border) and imported our car.
Because we live in Nayarit, it was necessary to go to the Palicio de Gobierno in Tepic 2 times, once to drop off copies of our import papers and a week later to pick up a letter verifying the importation documents. Then we took all the documents including the letter from Tepic to Transito and received our plates.

Now you are saying that because we got our TIP at the Nogales border and surrendered it at the San Luis Rio Colorado border that our importation may not be legal???

I thought the letter from Tepic verified that all was done legally.


YucaLandia


Apr 30, 2013, 3:59 PM

Post #9 of 33 (11082 views)

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Re: [barmarr] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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barrmar,
If you have a legitimate pedimento, and if you carry a copy of that pedimento in your car with you, then you should not have problems.

Aduana is registering the new pedimentos and the cancelled TIPs and the new TIPs in their databases, but these steps are going very slowly - so, we should carry copies of the key Aduana documents in the car to reduce hassles.

The problems have occurred when desperate gringos have tried "paper-only permanent imports" that did not get them pedimentos from brokers/agents who took $$ and gave out falsely-obtained license plates.

The process you described is fine, as long as you have a valid pedimento with your vehicle's VIN on it,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Apr 30, 2013, 4:02 PM)


barmarr

Apr 30, 2013, 4:07 PM

Post #10 of 33 (11075 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Thanks for the clear explanation.
I am grateful, once again, for all the knowledge you and others share on this site.


OBIE

Apr 30, 2013, 4:29 PM

Post #11 of 33 (11066 views)

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Re: [barmarr] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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I realize that the thrust of this thread pertains to those with TIP cars whose owners wish to permanently import them, so my question is slightly off the track. Since I own a Japanese-made foreign-plated car, I soon will be removing it from Mexico and selling it in the US. The car has a TIP that was issued in 2006 and there is no deposit to attempt to retrieve. My question is this: Is there any need for me to turn in the TIP as I leave Mexico? My application for Permanent Resident status currently is being processed and I do not anticipate ever bringing another foreign-plated car into Mexico. The original TIP for this car was linked to my FM-3 for five years, which was converted to an FM-2 over a year ago. My thinking is that I can simply drive the car out of Mexico without bothering to turn in the TIP. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


esperanza

Apr 30, 2013, 5:33 PM

Post #12 of 33 (11039 views)

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Re: [OBIE] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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OBIE, it usually takes less than five minutes to turn in your TIP. If it were me, I'd choose to take the few minutes and have it done right. Suppose you need to apply for something sometime down the line, and that open TIP shows up in the computer and whatever you want is denied? IMHO, better to err on the side of 'do it right':

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









RickS


Apr 30, 2013, 7:18 PM

Post #13 of 33 (11009 views)

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Re: [OBIE] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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"I do not anticipate ever bringing another foreign-plated car into Mexico."

My question to you, OBIE, is why would you NOT turn it in. It takes only a few minutes if you have the ORIGINAL paperwork that came with the sticker. Life is full of "I didn't anticipate..." moments, only to have reality show that we aren't always in control of our future.

Who knows what the Mexican authorities may decide to do "to you" at some future point if they find out that you did not exit properly (which translates to 'cancel your temporary car permit) as you were required to by law previously.

I have gone through that 'turn it in' line about 10 times in the last 6-8 years and not once did it take me, once I got to the agent, more than 3-5 minutes to have them cancel the TIP.

Edit: Looks like Esperanza has a quicker trigger than I, but as you see we both have the same question/recommendation.


(This post was edited by RickS on Apr 30, 2013, 7:21 PM)


ronau

Apr 30, 2013, 9:08 PM

Post #14 of 33 (10971 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Something else that I would like to mention is that when we recently nationalized our car in Nuevo Laredo the broker offered us the option of a getting a letter from Transito that gave us 5 days to cross the country back to our home town where we would apply for the plates. He was clear that the pedimento alone should be enough but that the reports were that the Federales were giving lots of trouble to folks who didn't have the Transito letter. We opted for the Transito letter which was taped inside our windshield and sure enough we were stopped at a Federale checkpoint on the way back. They looked at the letter and never even asked to see our pedimento. The other guy they had stopped at the same time was not so fortunate. He only had his pedimento taped to his windshield and they were giving him a very difficult time. They even walked him back to our car to show him the letter they wanted him to have. They immediately waved us on but I don't know what happened with the other guy. We were very happy we got the Transito letter. In terms of time frames, we got our pedimento on April 4th and when I checked last week on the Aduana site, it was already listed there, so it took no more than 3 weeks to show up (maybe less, I didn't check earlier). We did do the nationalization at the same crossing as our previous TIP.


RickS


Apr 30, 2013, 9:53 PM

Post #15 of 33 (10959 views)

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Re: [ronau] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Ron, it would be nice if you 'told the story' of your Nationalization.... as there are several/many folks who would like to do this but are getting freaked out by the 'many' stories of potential fraud and corruption with that process. Just saying....


ronau

Apr 30, 2013, 10:50 PM

Post #16 of 33 (10947 views)

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Re: [RickS] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Ok, let me give a brief rundown and then if anyone has any particular questions about my experience I would be glad to answer them. We used an importer in Nuevo Laredo called "Grupo Cuevas" based on the recommendation of someone we knew who had worked with them in the past. We initially called to their office in Laredo, Texas and got an agent who guided us through the process over the next couple of weeks. We sent all the paperwork ahead of time (email copies, not the originals though we did take the original title when we took the car up). The agent did all the processing ahead of time so it went quickly and frankly we were a little shocked at how smoothly everything went. We drove to Nuevo Laredo on Tuesday and spent the night there because we have not had our car registered in the states for several years. On Wednesday we were directed by the agent to go to their office in Nuevo Laredo. Here was the only catch. The telephone agent in Laredo spoke English, but all the employees in Nuevo Laredo only spoke Spanish (or so they insisted). My Spanish is not great but in the end we managed. We paid remainder of the fee to the broker, having previously made a deposit in their account in order for them to start the paperwork. A representative led us and some other folks in a little convoy to the Aduana's office and we then sat in line in our car for 3 1/2 hours until we received our import sticker and had photos taken of the car. During the wait we paid a fee inside the bank office there for the sticker and since we chose to get the safe passage letter from Transito we paid a runner from the broker to go for that while we waited. He returned with it just before we received our import sticker. We already had been given the pedimento and the original U.S. title was returned to us after they did whatever it was they needed it for. Once the sticker was on the windshield they directed us out of the parking lot and we were done. We spent that night in Nuevo Laredo also and left early on Thursday morning for home. The day after we returned home we received the factura by email. We printed that out and it is our new title. The car was titled in the name of a Mexican friend and he signed it over to me on the back as soon as we printed it. Other people we know have paid extra to have the broker do everything for them, including the sitting in line with the car part, and they only returned for the car once everything was done. Hope that helps.


playaboy

May 1, 2013, 5:58 AM

Post #17 of 33 (10901 views)

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Re: [ronau] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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The process seem pretty straight forward.

Here is my questions: Why did you use a presta nombre to import your car? Did your friend have to be with you at the border during the importation? What is your current IMN status?


YucaLandia


May 1, 2013, 6:26 AM

Post #18 of 33 (10879 views)

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Re: [ronau] Importation of Previous TIP Car at Nuevo Laredo

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Interesting and fun report.

They did not require any current emissions certification? (nice)

Do you mind telling us the Make, Model, and Year of the car?

Do you mind telling us what the import duties $ were? and the broker's fees?

This information would be helpful to others making the decision of which crossing to go to with their TIP vehicle: Tijuana, Mexicali, Nogales, etc.
Thanks!
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


ronau

May 1, 2013, 6:42 AM

Post #19 of 33 (10873 views)

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Re: [playaboy] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Yes, it was a fairly uncomplicated process. Over the years we had toyed with the idea and contacted a couple of other brokers and were consistently told that the original importation and factura had to be in the name of a Mexican citizen. He did not have to be with us and they only required a copy of his IFE card. I have friends who insist their cars were imported directly in their names. In questioning this I was told by another ex-pat who has done several importations over the years that no matter what people think, at some point, even if just for a short time, their cars were in the name of a Mexican citizen (or corporation?) even if they didn't know it. I can't vouch for the accuracy of that and that's really all I know about it. It worked ok for us but I would recommend discussing it with the broker before starting the process if someone has further questions. I am now Residente Permanente (been here 6 years) and that is what pushed us to finally follow through and get this done.


ronau

May 1, 2013, 6:58 AM

Post #20 of 33 (10859 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Importation of Previous TIP Car at Nuevo Laredo

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 Thanks. No, they never mentioned an emissions report. I was holding my breath on that one and we actually have had the test done voluntarily every 6 months in Guanajuato so I did have that documentation if I needed it but it never came up.

The car is a 2000 Jeep Wrangler. The broker charged around $1300 USD to obtain the pedimento, then we paid $650 pesos at the Aduana to get the import sticker, and another $650 pesos for the letter from Transito (again the broker was very clear that this letter was optional and did not push us on it). The broker charge was consistent with what we had been told over the years by other brokers in Nuevo Laredo.


careyeroslib

May 2, 2013, 8:36 AM

Post #21 of 33 (10604 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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Just re: returning the TIPs at a different border point. We returned our TIP last September at Piedras Negras, Coahuila, and it was originally obtained at Nogales. No questions asked. She just scraped it off and checked the VIN on the car to make sure it was indeed the same car. But of course keep your receipt! Anything can happen with Aduana:)

Piedras Negras is a very easy place to obtain and return TIPs as it is right on the Highway and there is no traffic (not like at Laredo). The only drawback is the man in the Migración booth had no FMMs (I´m not sure what an incoming tourist would do) so we couldn´t get an exit stamp. But it didn´t matter on the way in. We just filled out another form on the plane and the agent was happy with that.


jackak10

May 2, 2013, 10:07 AM

Post #22 of 33 (10570 views)

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Re: Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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I'm sure this has been covered before, but I've looked and can't find the thread so I'll go again. I'm Permanente so must get rid of my car. I don't plan to ever, ever bring another car into Mexico, so just how important is it to run my car over the border and get my TIP cancelled? What happens if I just scrape off the TIP sticker and junk the car?

Going to the border is not an option, my little car is just a grocery getter and I have no faith that it will make the trip.


YucaLandia


May 2, 2013, 10:20 AM

Post #23 of 33 (10563 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Junking or Driving a Foreign-Plated Car with Invalid TIP

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Jack,
That's the current $64,000 question.

Driving the car with or without the sticker puts the driver at slight risk of being arrested and jailed if caught. Imagine a scenario where the driver of a foreign-plated car with an expired TIP or with no TIP sticker, then gets into an accident. The police can likely arrest and jail the driver because of driving with an expired TIP.

Junking the car, while simultaneously getting a Notarized letter from the deshuesadero/mechanic/scrap-yard certifying that the car is chatarra and can never be driven, paired with using this letter to cancel out the TIP with Aduana seems like a viable option.

Not cancelling the TIP does cause problems for expats who go to Mexican Consulates to apply for Permanent or Temporary Residency. Some Consulates are keeping the $$, and rejecting the applications due to uncancelled TIPs lingering on the person's Mexican govt. records - forcing the applicant to go back to Mexico on a Visitante visa, cancel the TIP, take the car out of Mexico, and then go back to the Consulate to start over.

If the expired-TIP car owner already has Residente Permanente status, then we have seen and heard zero negative reports of negative ramifications from not cancelling the old TIP, but none of us can imagine just how a lingering moldy expired-TIP might rear its head in some future interaction with the Mex. Gob.???

steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 2, 2013, 10:49 AM)


RickS


May 2, 2013, 10:32 AM

Post #24 of 33 (10552 views)

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Re: [jackak10] Updates on Aduana TIPs, Residente Permanentes, Pedimentos and Processing

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To quote Rolly....... "Aduana has a procedure for junking cars. Go to the nearest office for instructions. It's free. "





YucaLandia


May 2, 2013, 10:38 AM

Post #25 of 33 (10546 views)

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Re: [RickS]Junking a Foreign-Plated Car with Invalid TIP

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For context, our Aduana de Progreso office has asked for the Notary letter, signed by the deshuesadero.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 2, 2013, 10:49 AM)
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