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robt65

Mar 5, 2013, 9:19 AM

Post #1 of 21 (20612 views)

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Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Hello All,

We were unable to have a custom Mesquite rustic door made, and after 5 months of being patient and listening to excuses, my wife and I paid a surprise visit to the artisan in San Miguel de Allende, only to find out the truth that the door had not even been started. We got our money back and found a new tradesman who could construct our heavy duty thick door and door frame not out of Mesquite but out of a hardwood called “Encino”, I can’t testify to the correct spelling but the phonetic spelling, I think is correct.

I want to finish the door with a Minwax product. As long as I am in the USA, I thought it would be a perfect time to buy the product.

A little more information on the door and frame. The door is an exterior main entry door, that is 40 inches wide and is 3 inch thick solid wood for the door and a door frame of 4 inches thick solid (not thinner pieces glued and 8 inches deep (from front to back – due to the thick cantera stone walls) all around using the same hardwood. Although the door is semi protected from rain as it is under a portico, the sun and some strong rain may at times reach it.

My questions are few.

Has anyone ever used Minwax poly stain on an exterior hardwood door and frame?

A good product or not?

A better product available on the market or not?

A different choice of product for this type of wood?

Responses appreciated.

Regards,
Robt65



(This post was edited by robt65 on Mar 5, 2013, 9:19 AM)



Bennie García

Mar 5, 2013, 11:34 AM

Post #2 of 21 (20593 views)

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Re: [robt65] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Encino belongs to the genus quercus which makes it an oak. There are over 100 species of oak in Mexico. Exactly which they are using is anybody's guess. The Mexican are not commonly used in millwork or furniture. They are very hard and very heavy. A lot of wood handles for tools are made from encino.

UV breaks down all clear wood finishes. Personally I might choose to leave it unfinished or use a penetrating oil that can be re-applied easily when you feel it is desired.


robt65

Mar 6, 2013, 8:50 AM

Post #3 of 21 (20550 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Hi Bennie,

Thanks for your response. The wood is heavy for sure. This is one the very reasons I opted for additional concrete castile’s being built at the door opening, both on the hinge side as well as the lockset / jamb side.

Do you think I would be better off then, using an oil such as a Tung or Teak oil? What about using a paintable water-repellent preservative followed by six or eight coats of a marine exterior spar varnish? Do you think that might be a better way to go?

Even with the knowledge of having to refinish the door every 4 to 5 years or so I think there must be something out there that might offer a better UV protector than a Minwax Poly finish. It is good but I am not familiar with any real good UV protectors even on hardwood products. I have been told to stay away from any lacquer products as this freduces any UV protection any finish might provide.

Having had a boat on salt water for lengthy periods of time before, I know that sun (and salt) can really be a pain (and was) on teak decks and even spar varnished hatches and doors. It was a continuing project every 4 or 5 years to keep it looking good.

Our weather and position of our home provides for a lot of exposure to the afternoon sun and heat. We don’t get so much rain or wind from that direction, but we sure get the sun. Maybe the best answer is planting another tree which will produce some additional shade! (smiling)

On the other hand, maybe I am better to just paint the door; I really hate to do this as the wood really has a pretty grain to it. Maybe painting is the answer . . . . . I really don’t know.

Regards,
Robt65



Bennie García

Mar 6, 2013, 9:29 AM

Post #4 of 21 (20550 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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For exterior woodwork that gets a lot of sunlight, oil based paint is the best way to go. You can put a nice, clear finish on the inside which is the surface you'll enjoy the beauty of the wood more anyway.


cbviajero

Mar 6, 2013, 4:17 PM

Post #5 of 21 (20527 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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IMO it would be a sin to paint a nice hardwood entry door,better to just plan on doing some occasional maintenence.


Bennie García

Mar 6, 2013, 9:20 PM

Post #6 of 21 (20508 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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A lot of people feel that way until they try to strip a polyurethane coated door to refinish it. Personally, I have better ways to spend my time.


cbviajero

Mar 7, 2013, 8:29 AM

Post #7 of 21 (20490 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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So use a penetrating oil like you suggested or hire a kid to strip it every couple of years,just seems a shame to paint over a fine hardwood door.


Azuledos


Mar 7, 2013, 8:58 AM

Post #8 of 21 (20484 views)

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Re: [robt65] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Encino is what is known in the southern US as “Live Oak.” The painters in my family tell me that varnish (of any kind) will not stand up to exposure to sun and rain for more than a couple years, and using it means you either have to accept it looking bad down the line, or refinishing it periodically. If it gets bad, you'll have to strip off the old finish (ugh) and start all over again. As an alternative, you can cover the exposed surface of the door with a new coat of varnish every year, which will get you further into the future looking good, but won't avoid the eventual refinishing.

On the other hand, a good quality oil-based paint will last a decade or so—it's much better protection for the wood. In our current house renovation in Fortín, we opted to coat the sun/rain-damaged wood window frames with paint in “cafe oxido”color, and from a couple of feet away they look the same is if stained and varnished. We'll do the same with the doors with weather exposure. Like Bennie says, there are better things to do than constant maintenance.

================================
Veracruz has to be the best kept secret in Mexico.
http://etepetzin.blogspot.com -&- http://azuledos.blogspot.com


cbviajero

Mar 7, 2013, 9:08 AM

Post #9 of 21 (20480 views)

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Re: [Azuledos] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Then why bother paying for the natural beauty of a hardwood door in the first place,get one made of douglas fir or metal and paint it.
I just finished making a bench and some bar stools out of a couple of seasoned mesquite trunks that were given to me by a friend in Guanajuato,very beautiful wood,but hard to work to work with,wouldn't dream of painting them.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Mar 7, 2013, 9:24 AM)


robt65

Mar 7, 2013, 10:33 AM

Post #10 of 21 (20464 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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I think I have pretty much decided to go along with a good spar varnish finish. I wanted the hardwood doors for the beauty of the wood and I can always plant a tree or move one to provide more shade over the door area. If down the line we decide to paint, . . . . . OK we'll paint, but for now, I think natural wood as much as possible. I know it is extra work and maintenance but I also think it is probably much easier to paint over a varnished door in the future, than to varnish over a painted door in the future.

Thanks for all the different perspectives. I appreciate them and really did take both ways into consideration.

Regards,
Robt65


(This post was edited by robt65 on Mar 7, 2013, 11:09 AM)


Bennie García

Mar 7, 2013, 4:28 PM

Post #11 of 21 (20445 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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In Reply To
Then why bother paying for the natural beauty of a hardwood door in the first place,get one made of douglas fir or metal and paint it.
I just finished making a bench and some bar stools out of a couple of seasoned mesquite trunks that were given to me by a friend in Guanajuato,very beautiful wood,but hard to work to work with,wouldn't dream of painting them.


We are speaking of exterior wood with high UV exposure. Its the OP's door and he can and will do as he chooses. I happen to have extensive experience in the matter. I have built hundreds of custom doors out of beautiful hardwoods. If the customer insists on a clear finish on an entry door with direct exposure to sun and rain I will not guarantee it. Interior millwork is a completely different story.


rockydog85251

Mar 7, 2013, 8:43 PM

Post #12 of 21 (20424 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Truly a shame!!! We too have beautiful, 140 yr. cedar doors on the front of our house and it is really a pain in the you-know-where to keep them looking good in direct sun from both sides, as the front facing the street is exposed to summer sun and the interior side faces an open foyer with year-round sun. This year we finally gave up, had them removed and taken to a taller, where they actually sanded the old stuff off and refinished them with what is supposed to be durable in the sun - 2 coats. We will see soon enough but right now they are stunning although we only see the inside for the most part and do enjoy that view. I might seriously consider paint for the exterior in the future, as this is getting quite expensive!!!
Good luck Robert! Let us know how they hold up.
Willie


robt65

Mar 12, 2013, 9:54 AM

Post #13 of 21 (20345 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Although I have decided to go with a Varnish Finish, I have also decided to install a "shade cloth" awning over the portico in front of the front door. That should offer a great amount of shade. It is already rain protected by the portico. I also have to agree with Bennie. If I was in the business of installing and finishing exterior doors in México, I also would not guarantee the work of the finish if varnished and not painted, as hot sun can sure spoil a beautiful natural varnished door in short order. I have heard of painting the exterior and using a Varnish on the interior side. That is also a possibility. . . . . . . for others, but not me at this time.
Regards,
Robt65


Vichil

Mar 12, 2013, 5:52 PM

Post #14 of 21 (20329 views)

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Re: [robt65] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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In CHiapas we use cera and if you want the door to look good at all time you apply it every 6 months. It is not big deal to apply . The varnish last a year or so and is a real pain to remove.


robt65

Mar 12, 2013, 6:54 PM

Post #15 of 21 (20320 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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I understand that "cera" is a real pretty wood. Sure would like to see some finished.

Regards,
Robt65


bournemouth

Mar 12, 2013, 8:41 PM

Post #16 of 21 (20315 views)

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Re: [robt65] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Robert - cera is wax.


RickS


Mar 12, 2013, 8:52 PM

Post #17 of 21 (20313 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Maybe the confusion is that there is a product/company, Bella Cera.


robt65

Mar 13, 2013, 6:36 AM

Post #18 of 21 (20299 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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What is the base of this wax? Where is this wax from?

Robt,65


Vichil

Mar 13, 2013, 7:55 AM

Post #19 of 21 (20289 views)

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Re: [robt65] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Comex sells it in various colors including clear. The painters here mix I believe diesel with it to make it more liquid and apply it. I use it out of the can and apply it with rags. We have a lot of wood here as all the ceilings, doors, windows columns etc are made out of wood and that is what works. It is a lot of maintenance but not as much of a pain as varnish. Our gate faces south so we get lots of sun on it.


(This post was edited by Vichil on Mar 13, 2013, 7:58 AM)


bournemouth

Mar 13, 2013, 8:32 AM

Post #20 of 21 (20280 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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Painters also mix it with tar - chapapote - to give color to the finish.


(This post was edited by bournemouth on Mar 13, 2013, 8:33 AM)


Vichil

Mar 13, 2013, 2:07 PM

Post #21 of 21 (20266 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Encino (sp) Hardwood Door and Door Frame

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I had the doors stained cypress color and then put a darl stain on it which gave a wood a mahogany color. I find the plain dark stain or the tar too dark but I asume you could put any stain you wish in the wax..
 
 
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