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bronco

Nov 18, 2012, 7:25 PM

Post #51 of 77 (4457 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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kate they WANT you to move $$ here. what are you thinking??


Rolly


Nov 18, 2012, 7:26 PM

Post #52 of 77 (4456 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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"fudging income" is withdrawing money and redepositing it to give the appearance of a higher total income.

Rolly Pirate


morgaine7


Nov 18, 2012, 7:32 PM

Post #53 of 77 (4454 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Overstaying tourist visa

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Thanks, Rolly and Bronco.
Nope, that's not what I'm doing. Unfortunately, once it gets here, I spend it. Smile

Kate


La Isla


Nov 18, 2012, 7:33 PM

Post #54 of 77 (4452 views)

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Re: [bronco] Overstaying tourist visa

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la isla you are naive, they would deport you in a flash. maybe they will ask for a small tip, and "this little mistake can be resolved...... no problem"


You know nothing about me, how long I've been in Mexico, the useful connections I've made with Mexicans through my work, my Mexican "smarts", etc., etc., or you would not call me naive!


bronco

Nov 18, 2012, 8:23 PM

Post #55 of 77 (4438 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Overstaying tourist visa

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la isla, i dont know your "connections". i just see things realistically, a govt can do what they want too. none of us know what will happen.


La Isla


Nov 18, 2012, 8:25 PM

Post #56 of 77 (4436 views)

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Re: [bronco] Overstaying tourist visa

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In Reply To
la isla, i dont know your "connections". i just see things realistically, a govt can do what they want too. none of us know what will happen.


You can´t see my situation realistically because you know very little about it. Please don´t project your negativity onto others' lives.


bronco

Nov 18, 2012, 8:56 PM

Post #57 of 77 (4432 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Overstaying tourist visa

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i am speaking generally. this forum is for many different people, & not all of them are lucky. possibly you have something special. in general, a govt can do what they want. thats all i have to say untill we hear feedback which will happen in several weeks.


Reefhound


Nov 18, 2012, 9:31 PM

Post #58 of 77 (4427 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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The ex-pat may not be that significant to Mexico overall but the tourist certainly is. The ex-pats have been among the strongest advocates for Mexico and droves of bitter ex-pats returning to the U.S. could create an image of Mexico as "American unfriendly". How much of an effect this could have, I have no idea.


rockydog85251

Nov 18, 2012, 9:51 PM

Post #59 of 77 (4421 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Overstaying tourist visa

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I didn't realize the new regs/law were directed specifically towards those from the US & Canada.........does it SAY those 2 nationalities only? It gave me the impression that it would apply to ANYONE from ANY country.....am I mistaken?
Willie


morgaine7


Nov 18, 2012, 10:12 PM

Post #60 of 77 (4417 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Overstaying tourist visa

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I was speaking in the context of the rationale behind the law, not necessarily the effect. I've yet to be convinced that it was aimed at North Americans. You're right, of course, about the importance of tourism, but do you really think there will be "droves of bitter ex-pats returning to the U.S." in sufficient numbers to have a meaningful impact? I find it hard to envision that many people having to leave, but I honestly have no idea how many are affected.

Kate


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 6:28 AM

Post #61 of 77 (4404 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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Read the numbers in the 2010 census and not all foreigners were counted:
http://www.inegi.org.mx/inegi/contenidos/espanol/prensa/contenidos/Articulos/sociodemograficas/nacidosenotropais.pdf

From the U.S.: over 191,000
From Canada: almost 8,000

A total of 196,121 foreign born people in Mexico as of 2010 the large majority are from the U.S. so yes, it is aimed at U.S. citizens.

I don't think the bureaucrats meant for the financials to apply to immigrants from Guatemala and Belize.

I'm sure Mexico has the count of how many people have FM2/3 who are living here, but I haven't found it.

http://geo-mexico.com/?p=4031
"Where in Mexico do most foreigners reside? Baja California has the most foreigners with almost 123,000, followed by Jalisco (84,000), Chihuahua (80,000), and the Federal District (72,000). Tlaxcala has the fewest, with just over 3,200, followed by Tabasco with about 4,500."

Let's assume one forth of the 191,000 U.S. citizens have FM status and 75% of them have FM3s. That is 35,250 people.

If 35,250 people receive the average SS check of $1200, that is $42,300,000 dollars a month or $507,600,000 USD a year. Not chump change and the people who receive this amount spend almost every dime every month.

That is a lot of money in local sales taxes, property taxes, taxis, stores, maids, gardeners, restaurants, doctors, and all others and the money that trickles down to the people dependent on the money made from the above.

I think the numbers of people on FM3/2 are at least triple of what I assumed. In a heavy expat populated area like Lake Chapala it will ruin the economy. The people who can afford to stay will leave because why would they want to stay with closed businesses that cater to foreigners and vacant houses? It ruins the resale on their properties also.

I don't know about other countries but most Americans are suspicious of other countries anyway. Many are still worried about the crime they hear about in Mexico and think foreigners are being killed and kidnapped. They will not like it at all if their fellow Americans are forced to leave because Mexico changed the game and cost them everything they owned. We do stick together on things like this. Most Americans still think Mexico is a Third World country filled with criminals and Mexicans ride burros everywhere.

With the new financial requirements who could trust Mexico not to do this again?


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 6:35 AM

Post #62 of 77 (4403 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Overstaying tourist visa

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The new financial requirements apply to all foreigners who legally enter to live in Mexico. U.S. citizens are 76% of those foreigners, so yes, apparently it does effect them the most. I don't think anyone has said the rules only apply to U.S. and Canadian citizens.


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 6:40 AM

Post #63 of 77 (4402 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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It means transferring money into the account used to prove income, usually a checking account. Such as transferring an extra $200 from savings and then back to savings for 3 months so that the checking account has the past 3 months in deposits in the amount needed to qualify for an FM2/3. Not many people do or ever did it but even if they did, the practice didn't hurt Mexico.


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 6:56 AM

Post #64 of 77 (4399 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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I didn't "think" for you. If you think everything written is about you, you are mistaken. If it is about you, I will use your name.

I guess you haven't read the rules. I cannot fathom how the rules benefit Mexicans. Please find those benefits for Mexico and Mexicans and post them.

The rules we are concerned with are the financial requirements being made on foreigners. Mexico cannot possibly think these requirements will encourage wealthier foreigners to move to Mexico and therefore spend more money. Mexico will lose it's largest base of foreigners who do not meet the new requirements and lose billions of dollars in revenue.

Wealthier people do not need nor want to live in Mexico especially if it loses the businesses that cater to foreigners. I know many wealthier foreigners who have left Mexico over the last few years because they don't need to put up with the infrastructure, crime and lack of services. One moved to Majorca because she got more for her money. They don't need Mexico.


salto_jorge

Nov 19, 2012, 7:42 AM

Post #65 of 77 (4393 views)

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Re: [geewiz] Overstaying tourist visa

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Getting back to the Visa issue, I lost my visa a few months ago.

I have visited and waited in line at the local office many times in GDL trying to get it replaced or get a new one, no luck.
Went to the airport and they told me to go to the down town office. Finally a few weeks ago, someone in the downtown office came up with the idea that I entered Mexico as a Mexican, which is not true. The employees clearly do not care or do not want to look anything up one must assume that the visa information is not computerized or they would have the information in seconds/minutes.

As it stands, I have not seen my visa for 5 months, I have a copy of an old expired FMx from the past that I keep with me. On my last visit to get the papers taken care of ( 2 weeks ago), the supervisor in GDL told me to get a new visa when I return home to GDL, then apply to change my status to get a new FMx or what ever it will be called in January. It is all about the politico class and I try to stay as far away from it as I can.

I was in a car accident when I did not have a valid visa, the officer pulled me aside after looking at my expired FMx papers and charged me a fine, never mentioned it to the other person. We both had insurance, no one went to jail, the other person had to pay to have my vehicle repaired which I picked up 4 weeks ago.

When I am ready to head back to el norte this year, I expect to pay some kind of fine at the airport. Maybe it will be the same fine I tried to pay for the last 5 months, while begging for a new visa and I was turned away since I was not ready to leave. Just in case I cannot leave Mexico, I will purchase travel insurance.


This is all from personal experience !


(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Nov 19, 2012, 7:47 AM)


skier14

Nov 19, 2012, 8:01 AM

Post #66 of 77 (4388 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] Overstaying tourist visa

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Have you ever thought of traveling to the Mexican/US border and then walking across. No fine. Hope your US passport is current.


donemry

Nov 19, 2012, 8:04 AM

Post #67 of 77 (4388 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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This thread is filled with more conjecture than a Kreskin performance, and not a little made up data.

Mexican tourism officials predict the country will host 24.7 million foreign visitors in 2012. http://articles.latimes.com/...ico-tourism-20121011

The largest number of Americans outside the United States live in Mexico. According to Mexico 2010 Census, there are 738,103 Americans living in the Mexican Republic.[10] Mostly, people who come from the USA are students, retirees, religious workers (missionaries, pastors, etc.), Mexican-Americans, and spouses of Mexican citizens. A few are professors who come employed by Mexican companies to teach English, other English teachers, and corporate employees and executives.
These residents often don't stay the whole year, with many retirees living half of the year in the USA to keep their retiree benefits, while others, known as "snowbirds", spend only the winter months south of the border. The American community in Mexico is found throughout the country, but there are significant concentrations of U.S. citizens in all the north of Mexico, especially in Tijuana, Mexicali, Los Cabos, San Carlos, Mazatlán, Saltillo, Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo. Also in the central parts of the country such as San Miguel de Allende, Ajijic, Chapala, Mexico City and Cuernavaca, and along the Pacific coast, most especially in the greater Puerto Vallarta area. In the past few years, a growing American community has developed in Mérida, Yucatán.

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._to_Mexico#Americans

The handy anecdotes about knowing some person who did this or that do not create real data nor represent the population at large. The handful of "full time" expats is likely around 200,000. If some number leave or stay will be of little economic consequnce to Mexico compared to the tourism numbers and the "snowbirds". If some significant "negative" effect occurs from the new rules, the rules will change. However, keep in mind that a few hundred unhappy expats does not create an "effect".


morgaine7


Nov 19, 2012, 8:10 AM

Post #68 of 77 (4384 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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Please re-read your message that I was responding to. You were saying "We think …" as if everyone agreed with you, and not all of us do. I've read the new legislation and the census and INM figures, and my conclusions are different from yours. The INEGI report indicates that 738,103 people living in Mexico as of 2010 were born in the US, just as Donemry stated above. Here's a PDF from INM showing statistics for different types of documents issued:
http://www.inm.gob.mx/...12/Sintesis_2012.pdf
on p. 17 it shows the number of FM2/FM3 equivalents processed in 2011 and the first three quarters of 2012.

Whether or not you or I believe these figures is irrelevant if the government is using them to make decisions, which I'd imagine is pretty likely. And I'm hardly in a position to determine what benefits Mexico or Mexicans. My point was that the intent of the new legislation would have focused on that.

Kate


salto_jorge

Nov 19, 2012, 8:40 AM

Post #69 of 77 (4373 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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In GDL/Zapopan a few of my neighbors are from one of the upper Mexican classes and for the most part are US Citizens by birth. These folks were born in El Norte as they call it and only go there for vacations and to give birth, none of them have relatives in El Norte. These folks have learned English at private schools in GDL. They are dual nationals so they can work in Mexico but have US Passports just in case they need them.

When you look at the head count for US Citizens in Mexico please remember some of the folks that you see in Mexico and you may think are Mexicans are in fact US Citizens by birth.


PS: The mexican border is a long ways from GDL/Zapopan so I usually take the plane.


(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Nov 19, 2012, 8:44 AM)


bronco

Nov 19, 2012, 8:41 AM

Post #70 of 77 (4371 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] Overstaying tourist visa

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europe as well as us/canada.


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 9:05 AM

Post #71 of 77 (4362 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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If you are not in the "we" then it doesn't include you, does it? I don't think I need to write the names of people in the "we."

Glad you have that document. I do not read Spanish so it is difficult finding the right documents.

The estimates I posted earlier were much lower. These numbers show there are many more likely retirees and how they will be impacted.

72, 879 FM3 renewals from January to September 2012, 6073 a month. Adding another 3 months through December 2012, that is 91,098 people with FM3s.

53, 478 FM2s processed through September, estimated 66, 847 to the end of the year.

Total FM2/3s 157,945

Figure 1/2 will have trouble meeting the new financial requirements:

78,972 times $1200 USD a month= $94,767,000 or
$1,137,204,000 a year.

This is a low estimate, but with a low number, this amount of money leaving heavily populated expat areas could be devastating to those areas.


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 9:08 AM

Post #72 of 77 (4360 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] Overstaying tourist visa

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Dual citizens, Mexican-Americans, are counted as a citizen of the country they are currently in. A person who is Mexican-American when he is in Mexico, is a Mexican and counted as a Mexican. He cannot access the U.S. embassy. When he is in the U.S., he is counted as an American citizen and cannot access the Mexican embassy.


Axixic


Nov 19, 2012, 9:25 AM

Post #73 of 77 (4354 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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Because I didn't translate all of the FM2/3s issued in the document, I did not add another 79333 FM2/3s issued and an estimated 19833 through the end of the year totaling 99166.

That makes the amount of money that will be lost by Mexico higher almost double $1,137,204,000 a year I estimated.

I bet the real estate companies love these new regulations. They won't be able to sell anything.

The people who own expensive homes will see the value of their properties dropping because lower priced properties will be flooding the market.

How does this benefit Mexico?


bronco

Nov 19, 2012, 10:34 AM

Post #74 of 77 (4339 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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dont forget $3000 pesos person, for each renewal. do the math!


morgaine7


Nov 19, 2012, 11:03 AM

Post #75 of 77 (4331 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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Keep in mind that under the old rules, people with FM2/Inmigrante status were already demonstrating the montly income level now required for the new Temporal (400x daily minimum wage in DF). They … in this case "we", since I'm one of them … will be affected only when applying for Permanente.

Kate
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