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Magilicudy

Oct 17, 2012, 4:05 PM

Post #1 of 25 (7500 views)

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A new brochure?? Or a case of LCS Board asleep at the wheel??

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The Lake Chapala Society (LCS) has expanded their post-life program and brochure to what they are now calling, "Being Prepared For Life and Death Lakeside". While they may be well-intended, the brochure is misleading and inaccurate.
They make little effort in separating the differences between Mexican federal law and Jalisco state law, especially on health care directives.

There are no legal citations so that someone could actually read the legislation for themselves. They make no distinction between palliative care provided by the Mexican federal legislation and the very limited 'curative or therapeutic' directives allowed in a limited health care directive only for the purposes of the guardianship when a person is in the process of being declared by the State of Jalisco to be mentally incompetent.

It is also stated that Health Care Directives require that a Jalisco State Notario’s signature, when in fact the Mexican federal end-of-life legislation specifically states that only 2 witnesses need to sign the health care directive (I have verified this with two law firms in Guadalajara; Vargas and Espinosa and Ana Villanueva, Legal Counsel for Puerta de Hierro Hospital. They, especially, are used to working with these health care directives and know what is required and what the hospital will recognize). In addition, the Mexican federal end-of-life legislation can be prepared by the individual. If you have questions on the health care directives listed in the legislation, you can talk to your doctor or another health care professional. You do not need to hire an end-of-life consultant to do the document for you. (A sample health care designation that you can prepare yourself is found on facebook at LifePlanningInJalisco).

It makes one wonder if anyone at LCS actually read the legislation before producing this brochure? In addition, they completely ignore the fact that those of us who have health care directives, durable powers of attorney (not available in Jalisco) can 'import' them based on the 1961 Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalization for Foreign Public Documents.

In my case, my US documents were 'apostilled' in the state where they were made, brought to Jalisco and legally translated for use here. My durable power of attorney, hard copy, sits in the file at my bank in Ajijic and my health care directives sit in a file ready to be used if ever needed.

One other factor I find interesting. LCS has a board member who is selling his services to write 'health care directives'. The LCS brochure seems to 'slanted' in his direction in that there are few pages that don't mention the need for a 'health care directive' and listing all of his ‘end-of-life consultant’ contact information on the final page.

Where I come from, this is a conflict of interest, but I guess not at LCS. Are the LCS Board Members asleep at the wheel?



bronco

Oct 18, 2012, 9:35 AM

Post #2 of 25 (7414 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] A new brochure?? Or a case of LCS Board asleep at the wheel??

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magilicudy, why dont you conatct the person who is in charge of the health directives? he has a web sight & his contact info.


Magilicudy

Oct 29, 2012, 4:52 PM

Post #3 of 25 (7067 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] A new brochure?? Or a case of LCS Board asleep at the wheel??

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For anyone interested in this topic, an interesting discussion has emerged at .....
http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6048-new-lcs-brochure-is-the-lcs-board-asleep-at-the-wheel


Magilicudy

Nov 21, 2012, 12:51 PM

Post #4 of 25 (6412 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] A new brochure?? Or a case of LCS Board asleep at the wheel??

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In Reply To
For anyone interested in this topic, an interesting discussion has emerged at .....
http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6048-new-lcs-brochure-is-the-lcs-board-asleep-at-the-wheel


This thread is no longer available.


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 7:00 AM

Post #5 of 25 (6315 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] A new brochure?? Or a case of LCS Board asleep at the wheel??

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Since the time of the original post on this thread, the 'conflict of interest' issue has been resolved at LCS. And, I'm told the Board is working on related issues.

While I don't personally visit LCS very often, I have remained a member for several years. I still believe the organization is viable, but just needs a little reevaluation of it policies and practices, like any other organization, from time to time.


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 8:37 AM

Post #6 of 25 (6297 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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The review will be made in several posts.
My next post will include references and resources, who are the 'authorities' for this information, and all of whom you can contact to ask questions or verify the information. The specific persons listed are all bilingual.
I am a researcher, not an attorney.

The information I've provided is a result of a few years' work while living lakeside. Because of my field research background, I have used the same discipline in this project as I have used when getting paid. If you have specific questions of me or about me, please contact me directly so that we can stay on topic in this thread. If you have questions about the posts or something constructive to add, please post as appropriate. Thanks.



LCS states on it's website, under Post Life Planning 'Update' .... that the change in the Post Life Planning program and the resulting 'brochure is due to federal and state legislation.

Neither the Mexican federal legislation passed in 2008, nor the Jalisco State Reforms passed in July 2011 address post-life issues, nor do they provide any sort of provisions for post-life. Once a person dies, the terms of the legislation are no longer valid.

The Mexican federal legislation (attached to this post in English & Spanish) allows us to designate one or more people to make decisions for us when we cannot speak for ourselves in any way and when diagnosed with a terminal disease, with 6 months or less life expectancy. The federal legislation is very clear on this issue and this has been confirmed with the law firm of Vargas & Espinosa Notarios and Lic Ana Villanueva, legal counsel for Puerta de Hierro Hospital.

This legislation also includes patient's rights and health care directives for palliative care (pain control, hospice, the right to stop curative care and more. See Chapters I and II.)

And, the Mexican federal legislation does not expire. It remains in place until the 'maker' of the document revokes it or makes other changes.



The Jalisco State legislation is restricted to the 'Guardianship/Tutor' process.

For those of us that come from the US (I don't know Canada's structure), it is the process when the person is determined to be no longer mentally capable of managing themselves. The courts make that final decision and appoint a guardian, or in this case, a Tutor, to manage the person's personal affairs. As in the US, this takes some time, with associated legal fees.

The Jalisco State legislation addresses the Guardianship process by adding,
1) a limited durable power of attorney for making personal decisions while the guardianship process is initiated or in progress. This is NOT a general durable power of attorney to be used for other purposes. And the document expires in 5 years like all Jalisco State Poders (POAs).
2) a health care directive for 'curative' (therapeutic) purposes only, which only provides for health care directives, nothing more. Unlike the federal legislation, there is no provision to name someone to act on your behalf when you cannot speak for yourself in any way and It does not allow for palliative care (Vargas & Espinosa, Notario Rafael Vargas).

Since the Jalisco State legislation was a series of amendments to existing legislation, it was not published in a comprehensive document similar to the federal legislation making it more accessible to the general public. (Specific questions can be addressed to Lic Roberto Espinosa of Vargas & Espinosa Notarios).


(This post was edited by Magilicudy on Nov 23, 2012, 8:44 AM)
Attachments: 2009-01-05 Changes in Law Right to Pallitave Care english spanish.pdf (55.6 KB)


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 6:21 PM

Post #7 of 25 (6234 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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The brochure I'm reviewing is dated August 2012, which was made available at the LCS office.
There is no author noted, but from reading the brochure and the website of the end-of-life consultant listed in the brochure, it appears that person is the author or a major contributor to this brochure.

Key References/Resources used for the Life Planning in Jalisco project from which the information for this post comes:

Acosta & Associates, S.C. (Legal Counsel for Puerta de Hierro Hospital) (no website)
Lic. Ana Cecilia Villanueva S. (Partner) <anaceciliavillanueva@yahoo.com>
Abogada Corporative
Bajada de las Aguilas No. 1240, Colonia Lomas del Valle, Guadalajara
Tel: 333 641 2774

Vargas & Espinosa, Guadalajara (see www.notario114.com or www.notario113.com)
Rafael Vargas, Notario 114
Lic Rafael Vargas Moreno
Lic Janneth Sanchez Lopez
Lic Roberto Espinoza Vera

Mexico Advisor, Raoul Rodriguez-Walters, CFP, Managing Partner http://mexadv.com

A word about these folks. If you have questions on the content of the information in this thread or on your own personal situation, these people can be contacted.

Mr. Rodriguez-Walters is bilingual, dual citizen US/MX, has a financial/estate planning business. You can find more on his website. Besides the legal research, he has contributed a great deal because he has foreign clients across Mexican States and Mexican clients across US states, which gives him a very broad base of experience.

The lawfirm of Vargas & Espinosa Notarios are a firm of about 20 legal staff and have several areas of specialization, one of which is the Mexican federal legalislation (contact person is Notario Rafael Vargas) and the Guardianship/Tutor process for the State of Jalisco. Lic Roberto Espinosa is the contact person and he speaks English.

Lic Ana Villanueva is legal counsel for Puerta de Hierro Hospital in Guadalajara. She deals with international and national, besides Jalisco-specific health care directives and powers of attorney (PODERS) on a regular basis because of the status of Puerta de Hierro Hospital and their client base. She also is bilingual.


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 6:36 PM

Post #8 of 25 (6232 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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Referring to the brochure, page 2.

"Five actions are recommended for preparing yourself for either incapacitation or death when living at the Lakeside:
1. Record your data with the LCS Emergency and Post Life Registry;
2. Create a Health Care Directive;
3. Create a Post Life Wishes document;
4. Create a last Will and Testament in Mexico;
5. Create a Power of Attorney."

And, noted on the business website of the end-of-life consultant listed on page 8, his services are available for items 2, 3, 4 and 5.



Referring directly to the brochure, page 3, The Notario Publico.
The author seems to be unaware that Notarios are appointed at the state level, not federal level. Who is appointed, for what reasons, etc. differ from one state to the next.

On that page, the author states "A health care directive requires notarization." The Jalisco State limited health care directive for 'curative' purposes may require a state notario's signature.

However, the Mexican Federal end-of-life legislation requires that the health care designation and health care directive be signed by the maker and witnessed by two persons. It does not require the signature of a Jalisco State notario (Lic Ana Villanueva, Rafael Vargas Notario).

If you want to have a notario sign it for some reason, that's up to you, but it does not make the document 'more legal.'


(This post was edited by Magilicudy on Nov 23, 2012, 8:27 PM)


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 7:17 PM

Post #9 of 25 (6225 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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Brochure, page 4, The Mexican Health Care Directive....

The author does not make the distinction between the Mexican federal document and the Jalisco State document.

The Mexican federal document
You can complete this document yourself if you chose to do so. All of the information is in the legislation: who you can designate to make decisions for you, the health care rights and directives, what's required for the document, etc. If you chose to do it yourself and want help with the health care directives, you can visit your local health care provider with questions.

You need to sign the document, have it witnessed by 2 persons.
It does not have to be signed by a Jalisco State Notario.
The document does not expire in 5 years like the Jalisco State Poders (POAs).
The document remains in place until it is revoked by you or changed.
The document remains in place through incapacitation (meaning that the document serves as a 'durable' power of attorney and health care directive).

Attached is a sample 'format' (not form) for the Mexican federal document.

The Jalisco State health care directive is a 'limited' document because it pertains only to 'curative' (therapeutic) procedures.....nothing to do with end of life or palliative care. It does not carry with it a durable power of attorney like the Mexican federal legislation. It has to be used with a Jalisco State PODER, which expires in 5 years and a new one has to be made. It has to be made with a 'limited durable power of attorney' which will be discussed later.

Completely missing in this section is information about 'importing' health care directives from the US because the US is signatory to the Hague Agreement (Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents, www.hcch.net Apostille Section). (Canadians can do the same thing, but they have to go through their consulate because Canada was not signatory to the agreement.)

The NOB health care directive has to be notarized NOB, then apostilled through the Secretary of State of Secretary of the Commonwealth of the state in which it was made, brought to Mexico (Jalisco) and be translated into Spanish by a supreme court certified translator). The document is then legally valid and recognized here.

[This is the same international agreement that allows us to 'import' birth certificates, wedding certificates, etc. from NOB that we use here. Those docs, to be valid here, are certified (apostilled) at the state level, translated here and legally recognized.)

[Poster's note: Ana Villanueva is a good person with whom to verify this information. Sometimes legal professionals do not support this information because they don't make any money from preparing the documents or getting the return business every 5 years (poster's opinion). However, these documents are recognized here by financial houses such as Multiva, by the major hospitals and many health care professionals.]

The author of this brochure states that "Post Life wishes are part of a Health Care Directive." The author of the brochure apparently found something I cannot find.

It is my understanding that 'post-life' wishes typically are expressed in a
"Letter of Instruction / Post-Life". This document sets forth the desires of the maker, but has no legal standing. You can make the document yourself with the assistance of a end of life consultant.
Attachments: Sample Document.docx (110 KB)


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 7:26 PM

Post #10 of 25 (6222 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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The Brochure, page 5, the Mexican Will

Since there are no references as to where this information came (the same for the rest of the brochure), the reliability of the information is questionable.

And, there seems to be some confusion about the 'executor.'

No matter who you name as executor of the will, that person receives a small percentage of the estate (I think it's 4%, but that has to be verified). There are no additional fees paid to the executor unless you have made your own separate arrangement.


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 7:55 PM

Post #11 of 25 (6215 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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The brochure, The Mexican Power of Attorney, page 6

Still lots of confusion about the difference between federal and state law in Mexico and international agreements.

Correctly stated is "Under Mexican Law there are several ways to make arrangements so that other people can make decisions on your behalf, represent you when you cannot be there yourself, or when you are incapable to make decisions yourself." But there is no information, just the statement.

It goes on "any Power of Attorney document is properly executed by a Notario Publico." This statement is true for Jalisco State documents, but not for the Mexican federal legislation discussed here or the documents 'imported' through the Hague agreement.


Mexican federal legislation....
The Mexican federal end of life legislation is a combined document: A 'durable' power of attorney for health care decisions when a person is diagnosed with a terminal situation and expected to live 6 months or less and health care directives. The 'durable' part means that it remains legally valid, recognized and binding through 'incapacitation.' There is no requirement that it be signed by a Jalisco State Notario.

Jalisco State Poders (POAs)
All Jalisco State Poders expire in 5 years whether they are general or durable (and there's only one limited durable POA).

General Jalisco State Poders are NOT durable. They do not last through incapacitation. According to Notario Rafael Vargas, the State Poders last through short-term situations if the person is having surgery where the patient is expected to regain consciousness, etc. If the patient went into a coma or many other situations, it is the opinion of the notario that the State Poder would not hold and remain valid. (You are welcome to contact Lic Roberto Espinosa with questions or to verify this.)

In July 2011, the State of Jalisco passed legislation allowing for a limited 'durable' power of attorney that lasts through incapacitation. The 'limited' part means that it is only to be used in conjunction with the state's guardianship/tutor program when someone is going through the process of being determined by the state to be mentally incompetent to take care of themselves. (Also verify any of this through Roberto Espinosa or Ana Villanueva.)

Completely missing from this section is that 'durable' powers of attorney can be imported under the Hague Agreement (previously cited). Durable powers of attorney imported are legally valid and recognized here. They remain in place through incapacitation, they do not expire and remain valid unless revoked by the maker. They can be for financial or medical purposes and are accepted by the financial houses, hospitals in Guad and many health care providers.

The NOB documents do not have to be signed by a Jalisco State Notario.....
but if you want, you can have a notario sign all of it. It's a choice, not a requirement.


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 8:06 PM

Post #12 of 25 (6211 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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The brochure, The LCS Post Life/Emergency Registry, page 7

"Asterisks (*) indicate areas where separate Mexican legal documents are required." This is referring to the 'form'.

The confusion continues with Mexican federal law and Jalisco State law and international agreements.

Most importantly is that once again the legal documents that can be 'imported' that are legally recognized in Jalisco (and in Mexico) are completely disregarded.


Magilicudy

Nov 23, 2012, 8:18 PM

Post #13 of 25 (6208 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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The brochure,
Lists of Notarios Publicos, Funeral Homes and Consultants, page 8

Under Notarios Publicos, there are 6 listed, all lakeside.

Under Funeral Homes, there are 6 listed, one in Guadalajara, and the others are all lakeside.

Under Consultants,
there is one end-of-life consultant listed who lives lakeside and who sells services of Mexican health care directives,
Post Life Wishes documents,
Services as an Executor on Wills,
Services in being named on Power of Attorney.




In this poster's opinion, LCS had a useful, straight-forward, simple Post Life program. Many of us have used the program and had the documentation in place for several years. The program worked! What was wrong with that?

Moving into the "Life Planning" side is much more complex and appears to be beyond their scope of people 'in-house' or people they bring in. A couple of years ago, they had someone do a presentation for them on health care directives. The information was determined to be problematic 'after' the presentation and LCS issued a disclaimer. The idea was good, the execution was not.

LCS does many things well. Perhaps a useful direction would be to concentrate on those things and leave the Life Planning area to others.


(This post was edited by Magilicudy on Nov 23, 2012, 9:03 PM)


Magilicudy

Nov 26, 2012, 7:25 AM

Post #14 of 25 (6107 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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In Reply To
The brochure, The Mexican Power of Attorney, page 6

Still lots of confusion about the difference between federal and state law in Mexico and international agreements.

Correctly stated is "Under Mexican Law there are several ways to make arrangements so that other people can make decisions on your behalf, represent you when you cannot be there yourself, or when you are incapable to make decisions yourself." But there is no information, just the statement.

It goes on "any Power of Attorney document is properly executed by a Notario Publico." This statement is true for Jalisco State documents, but not for the Mexican federal legislation discussed here or the documents 'imported' through the Hague agreement.


Mexican federal legislation....
The Mexican federal end of life legislation is a combined document: A 'durable' power of attorney for health care decisions when a person is diagnosed with a terminal situation and expected to live 6 months or less and health care directives. The 'durable' part means that it remains legally valid, recognized and binding through 'incapacitation.' There is no requirement that it be signed by a Jalisco State Notario.

Jalisco State Poders (POAs)
All Jalisco State Poders expire in 5 years whether they are general or durable (and there's only one limited durable POA).

General Jalisco State Poders are NOT durable. They do not last through incapacitation. According to Notario Rafael Vargas, the State Poders last through short-term situations if the person is having surgery where the patient is expected to regain consciousness, etc. If the patient went into a coma or many other situations, it is the opinion of the notario that the State Poder would not hold and remain valid. (You are welcome to contact Lic Roberto Espinosa with questions or to verify this.)

In July 2011, the State of Jalisco passed legislation allowing for a limited 'durable' power of attorney that lasts through incapacitation. The 'limited' part means that it is only to be used in conjunction with the state's guardianship/tutor program when someone is going through the process of being determined by the state to be mentally incompetent to take care of themselves. (Also verify any of this through Roberto Espinosa or Ana Villanueva.)

Completely missing from this section is that 'durable' powers of attorney can be imported under the Hague Agreement (previously cited). Durable powers of attorney imported are legally valid and recognized here. They remain in place through incapacitation, they do not expire and remain valid unless revoked by the maker. They can be for financial or medical purposes and are accepted by the financial houses, hospitals in Guad and many health care providers.

The NOB documents do not have to be signed by a Jalisco State Notario.....
but if you want, you can have a notario sign all of it. It's a choice, not a requirement.



Someone recently mentioned to me that they got their 'power of attorney/health care directive from a local notario in Ajijic', that it was based on the law of July 2011 and that if you were hooked up to life support, the health care directive would ensure that the life support would be unplugged with the directive in your document.'

First....many of us who come from the north make assumptions that there are bar associations here that can 'disbar' someone for malpractice or that is an effective legal system through which to seek recourse for malpractice. You might want to ask around. You will find that there are no bar associations that will 'disbar' or punish unethical practices or malpractice. You could try the court system, but ask around amongst those who have worked through (or tried) a lawsuit.

Even in the US where there are bar associations where members are disbarred and a legal system available with some degree of functionality, there are lots and lots of problems with attorneys and malpractice.

Second.....
the easy thing always is just to go to an attorney or notario and tell them what you want and walk out the door. But, do you know what you have?

The person telling me the story walked out the door with a power of attorney/health care directive based on the July 2011 Jalisco State Law. The person believes that the law deals with 'end-of-life' palliative care and pulling the plug.

The fact is that the Jalisco State law of July 2011 only deals with 'curative' health care directives. That means that the health care directives are 'directives' for just making you better and have absolutely nothing to do with the end-of-life issues, nor palliative care (pain control, making you comfortable and the right to remove all curative care), and nothing to do with pulling the plug.

In addition, the 'power of attorney' expires in 5 years and a new one has to be made. And, it is not durable (it does not last through incapacitation).

All of this can be verified with Roberto Espinosa of Vargas & Espinosa (contact information previously provided).

One of the advantages of going to a large firm in Guadalajara is that they are not trying to 'sell' you something. They have other business than selling health care directives to foreigners. Their primary market is not the foreign community.

The other around the power of attorney and health care directive the person 'purchased' is that he gave up what is available through the Mexican federal legislation. The Mexican federal end-of-life legislation provides for a 'durable' power of attorney within the health care directive. That means that it remains in place without any expiration and it remains valid through any incapacitation. The health care directives ARE for palliative care, to 'pull' the plug or to keep you from being 'hooked up' in the first place.

However, this one is not as attractive to sell as is because anyone can do it yourself, and it does not have to be signed by a State notario and since it does not expire, you don't have to be back in that notario's office every five years.


Rolly


Nov 26, 2012, 7:41 AM

Post #15 of 25 (6106 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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You could try the court system, but ask around amongst those who have worked through (or tried) a lawsuit.
Recently, a friend here in Lerdo sued IMSS for malpractice and was awarded $80,000 pesos.

Rolly Pirate


Magilicudy

Nov 26, 2012, 7:58 AM

Post #16 of 25 (6099 views)

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Re: [Rolly] The new brochure, A review of Information

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Rolly.....that's great for your friend.
I'm just wondering how long it took and if their attorney/court fees were paid.
And, do you happen to know what the 'issue' was?


Rolly


Nov 26, 2012, 9:11 AM

Post #17 of 25 (6085 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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I do not know the details beyond the fact that he received $80,000 cash in his hand with which he bought a better car and started much needed improvements on his house.

Rolly Pirate


bronco

Nov 26, 2012, 10:07 AM

Post #18 of 25 (6074 views)

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Re: [Rolly] The new brochure, A review of Information

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in general the court system is not the way to go. possibly rolly's friend was a special case.


Magilicudy

Nov 27, 2012, 8:27 AM

Post #19 of 25 (6013 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] Selling health care directives lakeside

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Arriving lakeside, I went to the attorney and said I want a 'durable' power of attorney and health care directive. I was told 'no durable power of attorney available in the State of Jalisco', but they could write a general power of attorney which expires in 5 years and I then would have to get a new one made. The attorney wasn't sure about the 'durable' part, but would set up a power of attorney for 'medical' decisions for me.

Oh, and he handed me a sample health care directive and told me I could use that as a guide.

I later found out that there was no 'durable' power of attorney in Jalisco, no legislation had been passed for health care directives (not for therapeutic or palliative (end of life)).

So, what did I pay for?
Well, the power of attorney could allow someone to make some health care decisions for me, routine only, nothing extraordinary. And the health care directives only showed intent because there was no legislation at the state level or the federal level at that time. And, at the end of the day, any doctor or any hospital had the legal right to make the decisions and they did.

Dr. Garcia, one of the local doctors lakeside, brought up the issue of 'intent' by saying that the health care directives were good lakeside because the doctors were used to working with foreigners and generally recognized 'intent.' And, then he said, but the final decision was still his. And, he knew that it was a problem for many patients who wound up in private hospitals in Guadalajara which did not recognize the 'informal' health care directives.

So, why were the documents sold? Because they could be.
There are no bar associations to discipline, and the legal recourse....what are you going to do? Sue because an attorney made a mistake or a misinterpretation or just prepared the document you requested? People typically don't find out there's a problem with a health care directive, or other legal document, until they are in a middle of a problem, or at end of life.

Lakeside documents have been sold in this manner for a long time and continue to be sold.

This post was made in direct response to an email I recently received where someone was very pleased with their newly prepared, 'power of attorney for medical decisions and health care directive' based on the "Mexican law passed in July last year."

I wonder if they know there was no "Mexican law" passed in July 2011.
What was passed was the State of Jalisco July 2011 amendments to the guardianship/tutor process that now allows for a 'limited' health care directive for therapeutic (curative) only decisions. That is attached to a Jalisco State durable power of attorney, also limited, to the guardianship process and like all Jalisco State Poders, it expires in 5 years and a new one has to be made and paid for.

In 2008, the Mexican federal government (not state government) which cover all of the states of the country Mexico, passed end-of-life legislation for palliative care. Although mentioned in this thread several times, I'll mention it again. This legislation allows for a 'durable power of attorney' not available in the State of Jalisco and 'palliative' health care directives, not available in the State of Jalisco. The federal document does not expire at any time. It remains in place until you revoke. You can have a state notario sign this document, but it's not required. The document is prepared under the parameters of the federal legislation, not the state legislation. The federal legislation states it needs the signature of the maker and that of two witnesses.

If you have a document and have questions, try contacting Lic Ana Villanueva or Lic Roberto Espinosa . Their primary business is not selling 'health care directives' to the foreign community and are both experienced in dealing with both pieces of legislation.





bronco

Nov 27, 2012, 7:14 PM

Post #20 of 25 (5964 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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1) has "LCS" updated their brochure? 2) "end of life consultants": is there only one @ lakeside? or do we have choices? LCS should list alternatives. if anyone has additional info, please post. thankyou.

(This post was edited by bronco on Nov 27, 2012, 7:25 PM)


Magilicudy

Dec 4, 2012, 7:49 PM

Post #21 of 25 (5647 views)

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Re: The new brochure, A review of Information

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Based on the LCS website, and their recent newsletter, there's no indication that the brochure has been updated.
The brochure lists only one end of life consultant, but there are others in the lake chapala area who are licensed therapists and grief counselors.


(This post was edited by Magilicudy on Dec 4, 2012, 8:08 PM)


Magilicudy

Dec 5, 2012, 7:01 AM

Post #22 of 25 (5613 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] The new brochure, A review of Information

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If The Lake Chapala Society has acted on the brochure (authored by the end of life consultant), it is not reflected in the website. From the recent newsletter and the website, there is no retraction, no disclaimer, no suggestion that anything has been updated or removed.

In the first few posts of this thread, discussed was the fact that the 2008 Mexican Federal end of life legislation (attached to this thread) and the 2011 Jalisco State Legislation deal only with the time when a person is alive.

Since the federal and state legislation deals only with a person who is still alive, it is not clear why the LCS post-life program changes were made based on that legislation. And, there is no apparent legislation, federal or state, that supports the changes.


Post Life Planning
Post Life Program Update
As a result of Mexican federal and Jalisco state legal reforms in 2009 and 2011, LCS has made the decision to no longer assist with obtaining a document concerning the disposition of individual remains. The document, “Being Prepared for Life and Death Lakeside,” available in the LCS Service Office, makes it clear that a new document is now the proper tool to use - essentially a “health care directive.” A “health care directive” is complex, and it would be inappropriate to expect comprehensive volunteer expertise. Therefore the document “Being Prepared for Life and Death Lakeside,” is a primer that gives information on what your options are and what you might want to consider if these issues are important to you. LCS proudly retains the Post Life/Emergency Registry as a fail-safe.

[Source: Lake Chapala Society website]


Magilicudy

Dec 5, 2012, 10:06 PM

Post #23 of 25 (5573 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] Vetting....who to vet and how much?

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Underlying much of this discussion is how much vetting, if any, does the Lake Chapala Society do?

There's one long thread on another forum --
http://www.insidelakeside.com/t6327p75-lcs-vetting-screening-or-reviewing-how-much-should-be-happening


There are a few posts worth reading and many.....well, maybe not worth reading.





Magilicudy

Dec 6, 2012, 8:34 PM

Post #24 of 25 (5519 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] Vetting....who to vet and how much?

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One of the issues with vetting is 'credentials.' You only have to be living lakeside for a short period of time before you hear someone say, "oh, that person got a south of the border promotion" or "it's a border promotion" or a similar comment. We all come from lots of different places....and can say pretty much anything we want. Much of the time, what we do with our "border promotions" don't have a direct impact on individuals.

An area where this becomes a problem is when someone starts making presentations, publishes something or starts some sort of business working directly with people on a topic/subject/service (often legal or health related) that directly impacts people's lives and decisions. It becomes suspect when the presenter (etc.) does not support their work with legal citations, references, resources and just says, "well, I have them." And, for some reason here, what I used to call a 'critical review' of publications, presentations and services seems to have been, at times, thrown out the window.


The credential issue, in part, is a problem because anything can be bought on-line these days; college degrees, certificates, registrations, etc. for anything and everything. These things might even 'look' legitimate.

If you have a question about a credential, a certification or registration, one source for checking it out is

www.certificationguide.com

You can also look on-line under specific professional categories and check to see what licensing is associated with the profession.

For example, if a person states they are a registered therapist.... then the question to ask that person is, "in what state were you licensed" since most 'therapists' are licensed in the state where they were practicing.

If there's no record of a license, perhaps the registration worthless? Or, perhaps that particular state did not require a license. It's worth checking.

The point is that there are many ways to verify credentials before doing business with someone.

And, the question remains on the topic on this thread, .... to what extent did the Lake Chapala Society Board 'vet' their end of life consultant? And, to what extent does the Lake Chapala Society vet others who present on behalf of LCS such as speakers and to what extent do their vet vendors who who offer services on LCS grounds?


Magilicudy

Dec 9, 2012, 10:17 AM

Post #25 of 25 (5417 views)

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Re: [Magilicudy] Vetting....who to vet and how much?

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One example of using www.certificationguide.com is to plug in a title in which you are interested.

In this case, 'certified grief counselor' was entered and turned up the following information:

xCertified Grief Counselor

Designation: CGC

Web Page: http://www.aihcp.org/aagc.htm

Sponsor: American Institute of Health Care Professionals Inc. [10]
The American Academy of Grief Counseling (AAGC) is a ficticious name owned by the American Institute of Health Care Professionals Inc. (AIHCP).


Alert: Part of questionable circular endorsements. AIHCP owns (via ficticious name) an unapproved accrediting agency ( Center for Continuing Professional Education), which in turn accredits two distance learning colleges. AIHCP Owner (Dominick Flarey) is listed as an instructor at these colleges, which are then approved as training for AIHCP certification. Mr. Flarey also claims certification from the organizations he owns.

See Ohio Registration Number 1163220 and associated ficticious name filings. Related links:

Breyer State University
Oregon Looks at Breyer



(This post was edited by Magilicudy on Dec 9, 2012, 10:19 AM)
 
 
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