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kate

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

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Class

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Ther have been some posters here who seem to be very concerned about class, whatever they think it is..i.e. high class Mexicans, Indios, low class class, ad naseum. There was the "criollo" dude and now we have the argentina and several Canadians and USers who seem very concerned about the "class" of the people with whom they associate.IMHO, a person with class is one who treats their fellow humans with honesty and kindness..education, wealth, taste, are not issues, goodness and acceptance are. Making fun or critcizing someone because they enjoy a certain kind of music or wear a clothes or jewelry is so superficial.Class for me is what I see every day in my neighbors who persevere every single day, working to support their families on very little money, with very liitle education..and if they want to get drunk on their only day off and listen to norteña music til 5 a.m., well god bless them. They have class..

Lucy

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1843 views)

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Class

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Well said. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Nice to see positive comments regarding the wonderful working Mexican people. Funny how some think everyone should look, act and enjoy the same things they do. Again, thank you.
: Ther have been some posters here who seem to be very concerned about class, whatever they think it is..i.e. high class Mexicans, Indios, low class class, ad naseum. There was the "criollo" dude and now we have the argentina and several Canadians and USers who seem very concerned about the "class" of the people with whom they associate.: IMHO, a person with class is one who treats their fellow humans with honesty and kindness..education, wealth, taste, are not issues, goodness and acceptance are. : Making fun or critcizing someone because they enjoy a certain kind of music or wear a clothes or jewelry is so superficial.: Class for me is what I see every day in my neighbors who persevere every single day, working to support their families on very little money, with very liitle education..and if they want to get drunk on their only day off and listen to norteña music til 5 a.m., well god bless them. They have class..

visitor

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #3 of 9 (1845 views)

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Class is important in Mexico -- to many Mexicans

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I have friends in almost every possible social class in Mexico, except the upper-class, of course. It's very hard to get by their security guards.However, anyone who expects to work in Mexico, especially in white collar or executive type work, needs to know social class is VERY important to the Mexican people. If you work in Mexico as an executive, or work with executives, you need to dress like upper-middle class folks. There is little of Sam Walton driving around in work jeans and with an old beat-up pickup.I have a friend in a small rural village, a doctor. He one day saw me taking the pickup to the local tianguis. He asked why I did that. I laughed, and responded it was too far to walk. He persisted. I joked, "I am tight, and it only costs 2 pesos." This did not suit him. He seemed to think there should be someone in the family who could give me a ride.Finally, I asked if what bothered him was a college educated man riding the pickup with the poor farmers and their families. Yep, that was it. He said, "I would never ride in that pickup with them."Later, when he was busy, his wife told me she sometimes takes the pickup when he can't drive her. "It's too far to walk, and it only costs 2 pesos."She said, though, that the people in the pickup would ask her why the wife of an "important doctor" was riding with them.The only reason I am accepted by the doctor, and his friends, the way I dress, is because he views me as sort of a Bohemian intellectual, (Guilty as charged, Your Honor) which has always transcended social class issues among many people with higher education.

A lot that is labeled by U.S. Ph.D's as racism is actually "classism".

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1846 views)

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Class is important in Mexico -- to many Mexicans

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You have nailed it on the head. Class in Latin American culture is what determines how you are received by both the wealthy and the pobrecitos. Americans fail to understand this, and feel this is something they can change because they don't understand it.The poor people in Latin culture are as guilty of the behavior as the wealthy, in that they select targets to approach for money, handouts, and higher prices if they are vendors by one's appearance. For example, I years ago, before I was married, I was dating a man from an extremely wealthy family in Ensenada. We were four-wheeling on the beach and got stuck. We got out and I was waiting for him to dig the wheels out, but he flagged down the military instead and requested that they do this. He did not lift a hand to help. Having grown up in the U.S., I asked him why he wouldn't help and he answered, "I couldn't be seen doing that, or my family would hear about it."Some people here interpret the acknowledgment of various class distinctions as a lack of acceptance. That is pure ignorance. It's preference, which everyone has, otherwise many of us would not be living in Mexico as American citizens. One naturally chooses who they prefer to socialize with or what type of music they prefer, and this usually breaks down into socioeconomic divisions both in the U.S. and in Mexico. If you find the idea of class distinction upsetting, then you should work on resolving it in the U.S. before trying to come to a foreign country and fix THEIR problems.

Randy in AGS

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #5 of 9 (1844 views)

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Well stated, JZ...

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When I came back to Mexico last fall to get married after fighting forest fires in the summer, we lived in a mixed neighborhood in a beautiful apartment. The sidewalk in front of the apartment building was cleaned once a week, but in between overflowed with garbage the rest of the time from the students at the nearby Preparatoria, who were maleducados (lacking MANNERS, not education). Anyway, I took it upon myself to clean the sidewalk, as to my thinking we lived there, and nobody else was doing it. My wife, being the sweetheart she is, didn't say anything. My concunyo, however, asked me why I did that kind of work, when the muchacha can do it. I explained my view, but soon realized that things are differant here in Mexico. It was a losing battle anyway, and I soon threw in the towel.However, when we house sat for my sister in laws family, who were on a year long break, I did all of the landscaping when I got home in the afternoon at 4:00 p.m. I worked a USA type schedule, and my wife worked until 9:00 at the clinic where she was administrator. I got some unusual looks from my nieghbors as I crawled around under the trees raking leaves and mowing the lawn. But this time, I didn't let it bother me, as I love to do yardwork, no matter how socially unacceptable it was to my upper class neighbors. Really, they understood things are differant in the USA, so I don't think it was as big an issue as sweeping the sidewalk was.Saludos desde AGS, Randy
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: You have nailed it on the head. Class in Latin American culture is what determines how you are received by both the wealthy and the pobrecitos. Americans fail to understand this, and feel this is something they can change because they don't understand it.: The poor people in Latin culture are as guilty of the behavior as the wealthy, in that they select targets to approach for money, handouts, and higher prices if they are vendors by one's appearance. : For example, I years ago, before I was married, I was dating a man from an extremely wealthy family in Ensenada. We were four-wheeling on the beach and got stuck. We got out and I was waiting for him to dig the wheels out, but he flagged down the military instead and requested that they do this. He did not lift a hand to help. : Having grown up in the U.S., I asked him why he wouldn't help and he answered, "I couldn't be seen doing that, or my family would hear about it.": Some people here interpret the acknowledgment of various class distinctions as a lack of acceptance. That is pure ignorance. It's preference, which everyone has, otherwise many of us would not be living in Mexico as American citizens. One naturally chooses who they prefer to socialize with or what type of music they prefer, and this usually breaks down into socioeconomic divisions both in the U.S. and in Mexico. If you find the idea of class distinction upsetting, then you should work on resolving it in the U.S. before trying to come to a foreign country and fix THEIR problems.

Joan Humphries

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #6 of 9 (1843 views)

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Class

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: You said it well!!!: Thank you, Lucy. I have a good friend who comes from a very poor family, only has a third grade education at best and has been on his own since his early teens. After many years, he finally has become a liscensed boat capitan and has an excellent job as a capitan on a yacht. One of the first things he did was buy himself a large gold pendant representation of the boat he works on, gaudy and tacky, and not to my taste, but he's so proud of what he's accomplished. Even when he was making very little money, he always sent a portion home to his family in Hidalgo. Yes, his house is painted a ugly bright turquoise color and sometimes he plays music too loud and at inappropriate times, but he once drove over two hundred miles to find me a part I needed for my car and wouldn't even accept gas money. : I know many Mexicans like this and I am proud to know them.. They may not be of high class, but they have CLASS!!

Kate

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1843 views)

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Class

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: Thank you, Lucy. I have a good friend who comes from a very poor family, only has a third grade education at best and has been on his own since his early teens. After many years, he finally has become a liscensed boat capitan and has an excellent job as a capitan on a yacht. One of the first things he did was buy himself a large gold pendant representation of the boat he works on, gaudy and tacky, and not to my taste, but he's so proud of what he's accomplished. Even when he was making very little money, he always sent a portion home to his family in Hidalgo. Yes, his house is painted a ugly bright turquoise color and sometimes he plays music too loud and at inappropriate times, but he once drove over two hundred miles to find me a part I needed for my car and wouldn't even accept gas money. I know many Mexicans like this and I am proud to know them.. They may not be of high class, but they have CLASS!!

brad

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1842 views)

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Class

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What's a USer? User?: Ther have been some posters here who seem to be very concerned about class, whatever they think it is..i.e. high class Mexicans, Indios, low class class, ad naseum. There was the "criollo" dude and now we have the argentina and several Canadians and USers who seem very concerned about the "class" of the people with whom they associate.: IMHO, a person with class is one who treats their fellow humans with honesty and kindness..education, wealth, taste, are not issues, goodness and acceptance are. : Making fun or critcizing someone because they enjoy a certain kind of music or wear a clothes or jewelry is so superficial.: Class for me is what I see every day in my neighbors who persevere every single day, working to support their families on very little money, with very liitle education..and if they want to get drunk on their only day off and listen to norteña music til 5 a.m., well god bless them. They have class..

Juan

Nov 30, 1919, 12:00 AM

Post #9 of 9 (1843 views)

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Class

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: Ther have been some posters here who seem to be very concerned about class, whatever they think it is..i.e. high class Mexicans, Indios, low class class, ad naseum. There was the "criollo" dude and now we have the argentina and several Canadians and USers who seem very concerned about the "class" of the people with whom they associate.
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Hello Kate, Class has little to do with clothing, jewelry or type of music. In fact, I find it impossible to describe class due my limited vocabulary and education but I know people generally tend to associate with others of similar background, interests and tastes.People who go out to dinner, church, movies and/or the theater in the evening usually do not spend much time with people who go out and get drunk on their days off and play loud music until 5:00AM. I am not saying there is a class difference but it can appear that way.In many cases the person who goes out to dinner may play music until 5:00 AM but he will play it at home and at a reasonable sound level. If he gets drunk it will happen on rare occassions and it will probable be at home, with his friends and family. Some people associate this behavior with class. The person who is out in the bars, or driving around, getting drunk with his friends until 5:00am will usually demonstrate different behavior, especially after he has reached that state of inebriation. Some people also associate this behavior with class.--------------------------------------------------------
: IMHO, a person with class is one who treats their fellow humans with honesty and kindness..education, wealth, taste, are not issues, goodness and acceptance are. : Making fun or critcizing someone because they enjoy a certain kind of music or wear a clothes or jewelry is so superficial.: Class for me is what I see every day in my neighbors who persevere every single day, working to support their families on very little money, with very liitle education..and if they want to get drunk on their only day off and listen to norteña music til 5 a.m., well god bless them. They have class..