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kmetzger

Jul 16, 2012, 3:21 PM

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FM3 problems

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This morning I showed up early to pick up FM3 renewals for my wife and me. The applications were rejected for several reasons, so I need to figure out what went wrong. We have now been living in Guadalajara for 14 years. This post may be a bit of a mess because we were both robbed at gunpoint and roughed up in our house Friday night, and I've been having to take care of a lot of chores (cancelling bank accounts and much more) besides getting our FM3s.
The first thing on my to-do list is to provide the following document:

Carta en espanol firmada por el interesado en la que solicte su regularizacion migratoria por conclusion de prorrogas manifieste la razon por la cual pretende continuar con la calidad de no inmigrante, la caracteristica que desea adquirir y las actividades que pretende realizar en el pais.

This is what I submitted.
Yo, Kim Metzger, bajo protesta de decir verdad manifeste que subsisten las condiciones bajo las cuales le fue concedida la caracteristica migratoria de rentista, manifestacion de las actividades que se encuentra realizando vivir de mis recursos provenientes del extranjero.

Can someone tell me what's missing?

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Jul 16, 2012, 4:04 PM)

johanson

Jul 16, 2012, 6:16 PM

Post #2 of 40 (4774 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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Sadly I can't help you. But I want to say how sorry I am about what happened to you. I wish you the best recovering from what happened.

Pete

Rolly

Jul 17, 2012, 7:29 AM

Post #3 of 40 (4705 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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This is the one I used.

Instituto Nacional de Migración
Subdelegación Local en [your city]
Re: Pieza 01234567890 [ your application file number]

Yo, [your name] solicito una prorroga de mi no inmigrante visitante rentista [or inmigrante rentista] para vivir en México de mi propias recursos traído del extranjero.
Yo bajo protesta de decir verdad declaro que mantengo las mismas condiciones y actividades realizadas bajo las cuales me fue concedida mi característica migratoria No Inmigrante
__________________________
Firma
____________
Fecha

Rolly Pirate

cbviajero

Jul 17, 2012, 7:44 AM

Post #4 of 40 (4691 views)

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Re: [Rolly] FM3 problems

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I used the same letter Rolly suggests in May at the Guadalajara office,it was rejected,I asked different people there what was wrong with it they couldn't tell me,so I wrote it out again by hand while I was there,resubmitted it and a couple of days later was notified that my FM2 to was ready,go figure,first time in 7 years I've had a problem.
Sorry to hear about the robbery.
Chris

kmetzger

Jul 17, 2012, 7:51 AM

Post #5 of 40 (4687 views)

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Re: [Rolly] FM3 problems

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Muchas gracias, amigo. Now I wonder if you could help me with the letter signed by my wife, who is economically dependent.

This is what I have been submitting for years and was rejected:

Yo, Sra. Sigrid Metzger Knab, manifiesto bajo de protesta de decir verdad que continuo con la misma actividad con la cual me fué autorisado mi FM3 continuando como dependiente economico de mi esposo.

Solicito la prorroga de mi documento.

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Jul 17, 2012, 7:56 AM)

Rolly

Jul 17, 2012, 7:57 AM

Post #6 of 40 (4681 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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Instituto Nacional de Migración
Subdelegación Local en [your city]
Re: Pieza 01234567890 {the dependent's application file number]

Yo, [dependent's name] solicito una prorroga de mi no inmigrante visitante rentista [or inmigrante rentista] para vivir en México de mi propias recursos traído del extranjero.

Yo bajo protesta de decir verdad declaro que mantengo las mismas condiciones y actividades realizadas bajo las cuales me fue concedida mi característica migratoria No Inmigrante (or Inmigrante) continuando como dependiente económico de mi esposo (or padre). [spouse or parent]

__________________________
Firma
____________
Fecha

Rolly Pirate

(This post was edited by Rolly on Jul 17, 2012, 7:58 AM)

kmetzger

Jul 17, 2012, 8:25 AM

Post #7 of 40 (4667 views)

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Re: [Rolly] FM3 problems

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Thanks again, Rolly. I'll go ahead and submit them this way and see what happens.

Next issue regarding my wife's application:

Debera anexar ademas la documentacion necesaria para acreditar dicha autorización segun lo dispuesto por el Manual de criterios y tramites migratorios.

I don't know what documentation they want. She submitted her passport photo, carta de apoyo, misma actividad letter and the online application.

Rolly

Jul 17, 2012, 8:33 AM

Post #8 of 40 (4660 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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I think it means her FM3 card.

Rolly Pirate

kmetzger

Jul 17, 2012, 8:34 AM

Post #9 of 40 (4656 views)

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Re: [Rolly] FM3 problems

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But she turned that in when we submitted our documents.

joaquinx

Jul 17, 2012, 8:37 AM

Post #10 of 40 (4652 views)

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FM3 problems

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This is crazy. Every year, the agent at Migration hand wrote a letter for me to type up and sign. This year, I went for my FM2 and wrote my own letter. The agent said that it wasn't correct and proceeded to enter a new one in his computer. He then printed it out for me to sign. I guess that I'm just lucky.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

kmetzger

Jul 17, 2012, 8:49 AM

Post #11 of 40 (4644 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] FM3 problems

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Since we no longer have our FM3 cards, the only thing I can think of to do is make copies of her recent Mexico entry permits in her German passport.

They are also asking me for a Spanish translation of my source of income, which I also submitted with the original application. So it looks like the processing administrator is asking for stuff we already submitted.

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Jul 17, 2012, 8:51 AM)

kmetzger

Jul 17, 2012, 9:15 AM

Post #12 of 40 (4627 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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I'll go ahead and see what happens tomorrow with the passport entry visas issued recently by the Mexican authorities and statement to the clerk that we already turned in our FM3s.

Final issue - This statement was included in the rejection letter:

Lo anterior en virtud de que su documento ha concluido con el maximo de prorrogas autorizados por ley.

Does this mean that after living in Mexico for 14 years and getting annual visa renewals that we can't stay here anymore?

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Jul 17, 2012, 9:49 AM)

esperanza

Jul 17, 2012, 9:48 AM

Post #13 of 40 (4615 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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No, you are welcome to stay. If I understand it correctly, it means that you can't apply for a prórroga--you have to apply for a NEW FM-3. But don't take my word for it, ask them.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

morgaine7

Jul 17, 2012, 10:11 AM

Post #14 of 40 (4605 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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Quote

Lo anterior en virtud de que su documento ha concluido con el maximo de prorrogas autorizados por ley.

Does this mean that after living in Mexico for 14 years and getting annual visa renewals that we can't stay here anymore?

Last month I read on another Mexico forum, first as rumor but later substantiated, that people were being rejected in Sonora when trying to renew their FM3s beyond five years. See quote below. Folks in other locations reported renewals beyond that limit with no problems, so implementation (as usual) must be inconsistent. Apparently it doesn't mean leaving permanently. One needs to either upgrade to FM2 or exit the country, return on a tourist card, and apply for a new FM3. But you really must verify this for your own situation with the Guadalajara INM.

Well, someone just got back from the INM office in Guaymas. He was applying for his ninth renewal of an FM3.

He was DEFINITELY told by the INM agent that there is now a limit of FOUR renewals of an FM3. In his words, the options now are:

"Option One - leave Mexico (at least as far as KM-21, THE major checkpoint below Nogales, Sonora) and purchase a Tourist Card. Then return to office and apply for new FM-3 which will have 4 annual renewals. Option Two - upgrade to FM-2 and not have to leave Mexico to reapply. FM-3 cost is 1451.00 pesos per year. FM-2 cost is 3139.00 pesos per year with an additional cost of 750.00 pesos which I believe is for the first year.

Clearly they want us to have a FM-2

We were advised there is a two month period after FM-3 expires where there will be no penalties applied if we opt to leave and reapply for FM-3."

Source: http://forums.bajanomad.com/...?tid=60321#pid730105

Kate

esperanza

Jul 17, 2012, 11:06 AM

Post #15 of 40 (4580 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] FM3 problems

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The limit for renewals of an FM-3 has always been four years--or rather, you get the FM-3 and then can renew it four times. After that, you are required to apply for a new one, which you can then renew four times. And so on.

Kate, surely the person you mention misunderstood what INM was saying. There has never been a limit on how long anyone can live here with an FM-3, and there has never been a push to change immigration status to an FM-2.

HOWEVER: if a person has an FM-2, he or she is only allowed to renew it four times. After that, the FM-2 holder must move toward either inmigrado status or citizenship, or leave the country and begin again with either an FMM or an FM-3.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

morgaine7

Jul 17, 2012, 12:55 PM

Post #16 of 40 (4552 views)

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Re: [esperanza] FM3 problems

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True, although neither KMetzger or the Sonora person was going beyond four renewals for the first time. I don't know any more about the Sonora case than the thread I copy/pasted from, but it seemed similar enough to KMetzger's last point to be worth noting. I'm mystified … in both cases … as to why INM didn't simply have the applicants apply for new FM3s as opposed to rejecting the renewals or telling them they needed to leave the country and re-enter. If these practices are a prelude to implementation of the "new" (2010) law, the old FM3/2 (or No Inmigrante/Inmigrante) designations will no longer apply anyhow.

Kate

mcm

Jul 18, 2012, 1:44 PM

Post #17 of 40 (4428 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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A few points -
I'm in Mérida, but had a similar situation (rejection) of application. In this case, though, we were switching to an inmigrante (FM-2) from noinmigrante (FM-3).
Like the original poster, the rejection letter said that we needed to submit a letter of request. I had done that, and pointed it out to the person handing our case -- she made a slight change to the already-submitted letter, and that was that (the wording on our letter was almost exactly what the original poster's letter had --.

Also, because this was considered a NEW application, we also needed to submit a copy of our (apostilled) marriage certificate (had already done this back in 1997, for the first FM-3 application, but presumably a new file is put together for the new application). The original poster might want to make sure that this was not what was being asked for regarding his wife's documentation.

Finally, we had to submit a copy of our fideicomiso to support our financial documentation (again, this had been included with the orignal FM-3 application in 1997, but...).

None of this may be relevant to the original poster's migration issues, but might help someone else in the future.

Good luck to the original poster! Having multiple trips to immigration, on top of the shock of a robbery, and the ''tramites'' involved with that sounds like a real nightmare!

kmetzger

Jul 18, 2012, 2:02 PM

Post #18 of 40 (4421 views)

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Re: [mcm] FM3 problems

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What I needed to submit:
Carta en español firmada por el interesado en la que <u>solicite su regularizacion</u> migratoria por conclusion de prorrogas manifieste la razon por la cual pretende continuar con la calidad de no inmigrante, la caracteristica que desea adquirir y las actividades que pretende realizar en el país.

This morning I submitted my revised letter as proposed by Rolly. No, that wasn't what they were looking for, the clerk told me. She pointed to the "solicite su regularizacion migratoria" part of the instructions. That was missing in my letter. Two days earlier when I asked the first clerk what was wrong she told me to read the rejection letter. The clerk taking my revised application this morning simply printed out a form with the required statement (unfortunately I just signed it as told and didn't read what it said exactly). Now I'll wait till I'm informed online to return to the office and see what happens.

Ric Hoffman

Jul 19, 2012, 6:52 PM

Post #19 of 40 (4287 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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It appears the clerk was asking you to resubmit you application under tramite 10: TRAMITE PARA QUE LOS EXTRANJEROS REGULARICEN SU SITUACION MIGRATORIA EN MEXICO (in the current manual)
Aplicable a extranjeros que se encuentren en el país, bajo alguno de los supuestos siguientes:
a) Que carezcan de documentación migratoria, (lack of documents)
b) Que su documentación migratoria se encuentre vencida, (expired FM-3) o
c) Que hayan dejado de satisfacer o de cumplir las condiciones a que estaba sujeta su estancia en el país. (maximum porroga reached, you just ask for a new FM-3 be issued)
Actions to take:
a) Los previstos para el otorgamiento de la calidad y característica migratoria que desee adquirir. (which visa requested)
b) Carta en español firmada por el interesado, dirigida al INM, en la que solicite su regularización migratoria y manifieste la irregularidad en la que incurrió.(request explaining what happened what you need to do to correct)
c) En su caso, documento migratorio o acta ante el Ministerio Público por el robo o extravío del mismo u oficio del INM en el que conste la cancelación del documento migratorio. (copy of the proper report if the visa was lost or stolen)
d) Comprobante del pago de derechos, una vez autorizada su calidad y característica migratoria. (payment of fees)

Select from the top drop-down menu: Regularizar su situación migratoria en México, on the INM online form.

But it sounds like the clerk has helped you in quest to renew you visa. Good luck.

(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Jul 19, 2012, 8:02 PM)

kmetzger

Jul 31, 2012, 11:08 AM

Post #20 of 40 (3844 views)

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FM3 problems

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I submitted the new documents on 18 July and haven't been notified to return to the office since then. The online notification now says "Registro de alcance 18 Jul." So it's been about two weeks since my last submission. Should I just show up there and see if they have approved the visas but forgot to update the online notification?

Rolly

Jul 31, 2012, 12:15 PM

Post #21 of 40 (3818 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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...forgot to update the online notification?
That's what happened to me. I got tired waiting, so I went to the office and found my card waiting for me.

Rolly Pirate

kmetzger

Aug 1, 2012, 8:48 AM

Post #22 of 40 (3707 views)

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FM3 problems

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I showed up early this morning to see if my FM3s had been approved, despite the lack of notification online. I was informed that I needed to talk to a lady about what additional documents I need to submit and that this lady was in the office only on Thursdays, Fridays and Mondays. I assume this lady is going to tell me what they could have told me over two weeks ago instead of merely citing a law that I need to comply with.

In the meantime I am going to have to leave this country where I have lived for the past 14 years and dearly love. My wife simply won't stay here after what happened to us. I expect we'll be moving to Austin in two or three months. So now I'm wondering what I should do if obtaining the new documents required for our visa extensions proves to be immensely complicated. I really don't need an FM3 anymore. What if we want to leave before this mess is resolved? Would I need to apply for some kind of temporary residence permit to tide us over till we leave? Can anybody leave the country without a residence permit? I'd be grateful for some answers to these questions.

GringoCArlos

Aug 1, 2012, 9:40 AM

Post #23 of 40 (3691 views)

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Re: [kmetzger] FM3 problems

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You mentioned that you suffered a robbery in July, which I assume is why your wife doesn't wish to stay in MX (and not because you are having some problems doing your visa renewals).

Following the robbery, did you go to PGJ and file a denuncia about the crime? If so, you are allowed to stay in MX until the case is resolved. If you have a copy of the PGJ denuncia, take it with you to INM and explain what happened. They'll work with you.

kmetzger

Aug 1, 2012, 9:54 AM

Post #24 of 40 (3681 views)

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Re: [GringoCArlos] FM3 problems

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Yes, you're right. We are leaving because of the robbery at gunpoint. Actually I had assumed when I called the police after the robbery and they had someone take down my name, etc. that someone would contact me. No one contacted me.

I am now convinced that the cops who arrived on the scene were involved, that they were in cahoots with the criminals. A year ago these same two cops knocked on my door in the middle of the day and said they think they had seen robbers climbing onto our terrace over the fence. The head cop asked me if he could search the house. He went through every room with his gun drawn. He did exactly the same thing a few months later. Then after another couple of months he stopped me on my way back home from shopping and told me to spread out and put my hands on the car to frisk me and ask for documents. No idea why and he then released me.

When they showed up after the robbery and assault, the only thing he was interested in was how much loot had been robbed. He asked me twice if they had taken gold or jewelry. No one asked me for a description of the criminals, no one looked around to see how they had entered.

The robbery caused huge problems. Documents from my wallet had to be replaced. I had to get my electronic car key changed (they took the key but pressed the wrong button and the alarm went off, sending them scurrying away). I had to report credit card and ATM card theft and get emergency money. I can't remember all the other things I had to do in addition to making a living as a translator. Then came the FM3 problem. So, dreading all that it might entail, no, I didn't file a criminal complaint.

(This post was edited by kmetzger on Aug 1, 2012, 10:02 AM)

kmetzger

Aug 2, 2012, 9:34 AM

Post #25 of 40 (3531 views)

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Re: [Ric Hoffman] FM3 problems

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Thanks, Ric. The problem was I should have submitted an application for new visas instead of extensions. Too bad it took me one month to find out. I told them I wasn't interested in starting the process over because my wife needs to leave the country as soon as possible because she's afraid of the Mexican police. When we decide on our departure date all I have to do is come into the office and they will issue a letter permitting us to leave.

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