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arbon

Jul 18, 2012, 9:27 AM

Post #26 of 34 (1291 views)

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Re: [mevale] SUPREME COURT DECISION/HEALTH CARE LAW

I don't think the act will cause many American doctors to become dentists or veterinarians, but it could cause more or less Canadian doctors to return or leave Canada.
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Axixic

Jul 18, 2012, 4:53 PM

Post #27 of 34 (1246 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] SUPREME COURT DECISION/HEALTH CARE LAW

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Under the ACA, people are required to have insurance. Doctors have patients now who have insurance. Why would any healthcare provider leave the medical profession because his/her patients have insurance? It doesn't make any sense.

The AFA is not socialized medicine. The doctors are not working for the government. The only people who could object are the insurance companies because they cannot turn away preexisting conditions, there are no caps on care, and they are required to provide services like well healthcare check-ups that they didn't have to provide before the ACA. Insurance companies have already hired thousands of new employees while they gear up for full service.

The ACA was taken from the Heritage Foundation, a very conservative think tank, and the only reason conservatives don't like it now is because Obama instituted it. If a Republican instituted it, they would love it. Insurance carriers will really love it because they will make more money.

stevebrtx

Jul 18, 2012, 6:06 PM

Post #28 of 34 (1238 views)

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Re: [Axixic] SUPREME COURT DECISION/HEALTH CARE LAW

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Bunk, do your homework.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

Axixic

Jul 19, 2012, 3:42 AM

Post #29 of 34 (1212 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] SUPREME COURT DECISION/HEALTH CARE LAW

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O.K, I did my homework. Don't believe every email you get and never help someone who claims to be a Nigerian prince.

What you took as fact and didn't bother to research:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

"Duncan said "83% of doctors have considered leaving the profession because of Obamacare." But that's an inaccurate description of the foundation’s poll.

The poll did not specifically ask about the federal health care law and was meant to measure concerns about a wide range of changes in health care. Also, it's worth noting that the poll had a small return rate and the group that conducted it is opposed to the law. We rate the claim False.

One example: a July 10, 2012, tweet from Rep. Jeff Duncan, R-S.C., who wrote: "83% of doctors have considered leaving the profession because of ‪#Obamacare‬ ‪#repealandreplace."

We found it came from a survey by the Doctor Patient Medical Association Foundation, a group founded last fall that is opposed to the health care law.

"The group asked: "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" According to the group, 83 percent answered, "Makes me think about quitting," 5 percent said, "I’m re-energized," while 13 percent said they were unsure or had no opinion."

"Instead, the question asks about "current changes," which could include not just the law, but many other factors, such as changes driven by insurance companies and hospital systems. There’s no way of knowing what specifically the respondents were referring to."

"In an interview, Kathryn Serkes, the founder and CEO of the Doctor Patient Medical Association, emphasized that the group was not asking specifically about the health care law. She noted that other findings in the survey painted a more nuanced picture than pure anti-Obamacare sentiment."

A real survey about physician concerns and remember almost all doctors were against Medicare when it started:
http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local%20Assets/Documents/us_lshc_PhysicianPerspectives_121211.pdf

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/12/02/the-bomb-buried-in-obamacare-explodes-today-halleluja/

"If you believe that the end of private, for-profit health insurance is some type of nefarious step towards a socialist society, then you might want to attend church this Sunday to mourn the loss of health insurers being able to worm out of covering the bills of a cancer patient because she forgot to write down on her application that she had skin acne for three months when she was a teenager."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/d-brad-wright/did-the-heritage-foundati_b_551804.html
"For starters, ObamaCare is nearly identical to RomneyCare (the Massachusetts reforms) in many respects, and Heritage took credit for the RomneyCare ideas. So, to the extent that RomneyCare and ObamaCare are similar, Heritage has every right to take credit for the ideas in ObamaCare. The fact that they don't want to is another story."

stevebrtx

Jul 19, 2012, 5:29 AM

Post #30 of 34 (1199 views)

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Re: [Axixic] SUPREME COURT DECISION/HEALTH CARE LAW

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As I would have imagined, you've found all the bogus "news" sources to agree with your point of view. Just as a passing point, more and more doctors will not accept Medicare patients, right now I pay $1,200 a year and the nearest Medicare Dr. is a minimum 700 miles away and I'm not sure I could even get into one if I needed it - and that's with today's system. Tomorrow there will be less, all stats indicate a dramatic Dr. shortage in the future, so even if it caused 5% or 1% to retire it's a disaster. Someone quoted the AMA, something like 20some% of the Dr's belong, so it's not representative. So, if you believe them, it's your problem.

By your statements you have have absolutely no idea what so ever as to why I and millions oppose this disaster, you presume what you read is true, it is not - and I can't correct you here because when "I" say anything even slightly political the mods jump on me. So, you have two choices here, continue to be mislead or, you buy the first round of beer at the establishment of your choice and I educate you one-on-one about who conservatives are, what we believe and why we know what is going to happen if the Titanic isn't set on a new course.

I could send you any amount of information but you won't read it, so take it or remain uninformed and misled, your choice.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

mevale

Jul 19, 2012, 7:28 AM

Post #31 of 34 (1173 views)

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Someone quoted the AMA, something like 20some% of the Dr's belong, so it's not representative. So, if you believe them, it's your problem.

I could send you any amount of information but you won't read it, so take it or remain uninformed and misled, your choice.

So the AMA has roughly a quarter of a million physician members and you quoted a poll that had 699 responses.

I think I'll pass on your offer to educate us over a beer.

stevebrtx

Jul 19, 2012, 7:59 AM

Post #32 of 34 (1159 views)

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Re: [mevale] SUPREME COURT DECISION/HEALTH CARE LAW

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What is it with you people? - ah yes, the disease known as Liberalism, you know everything and don't need to be informed. The bigger question here is "why do I bother"?

The Bureau
of Labor Statistics says that there were about 633,000
physician jobs in the USA in 2006. That includes MDs and DOs.
It does not include medical students or retired physicians.
I don?t know if they include residents, but they probably do,
since residents get W2s. I don?t know if they include
physicians who do not see patients, such as those in research-only jobs.

American Family Physician reported that there
were 936,000 physicians in the USA in 2004. That
includes MDs and DOs. 5.2% were DOs; the remaining 94.8% were
MDs.
href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-02-doctor-shortage_x.htm">USA
Today reported that there were about 800,000 active
physicians in the USA in 2004, and that medical schools produce 25,000
per year.

Let?s say there are about 1 million physicians in the USA in 2009.
The AMA has about 125,000 active physicians on its rolls.
That?s about 1/8th of the total . That does not
sound right. In an interview on href="http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/16/dr_chris_mccoy_dear_ama_i">Democracy
Now!, Dr. Quentin Young ? an AMA member for over 50 years ?
stated:

I?m a very severe critic of what AMA has
done. And it?s worth noting that AMA membership has dropped
from some 90 percent of doctors when I started out a half-century ago,
and now about a third of America?s doctors do belong.

Perhaps the discrepancies can be accounted for be the fact that not all
physicians are MDs, and some counts may or may not include medical
students, residents, retirees, and research-only MDs. Perhaps
some counts merely total the numbers of licensed physicians in each
State, while many physicians are licensed in more than one
state.

In any case, it is clear the the AMA is waning in influence.
They are at risk of becoming marginalized. In a
way, it is like what is happening to the RNC. The membership
is declining. The members who are left, are those who are
most extreme in their positions. As they become relatively
more extreme, they become less relevant, easier to ignore.

And yes, I was quite sure you wouldn't want to face someone who actually knows what is happening and isn't intimidated by your glassy eyed stare and talking points. And BTW, what about the $100 bet? I'm able to afford that, seeing as how I'm confident in the outcome.

PS: This ends my discussion, if any of you are brave enough to have a beer, you know where to find me.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

(This post was edited by stevebrtx on Jul 19, 2012, 8:12 AM)

mevale

Jul 19, 2012, 8:19 AM

Post #33 of 34 (1144 views)

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And yes, I was quite sure you wouldn't want to face someone who actually knows what is happening and isn't intimidated by your glassy eyed stare and talking points. And BTW, what about the $100 bet? I'm able to afford that, seeing as how I'm confident in the outcome.

Oh, you mean the $100 bet that the bill won't be implemented as written? So if one little line is changed in the bill you win your $100? Wow, Steve, that's a pretty ballsy bet. Are you sure you want to step that close to the ledge?

I tell you what, I'll bet you $100 that you are not as intelligent as you think you are.

Gringal

Jul 19, 2012, 8:45 AM

Post #34 of 34 (1133 views)

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Hey guys......this is turning into a personal pizzing contest, which will probably get an informative thread closed.

IMO, the most important issue was mentioned earlier in the thread: Up till now, a person with a pre-existing condition could not get health insurance covering their situation and if you actually used too much of the insurance (caps), you were thrown off the bus.

Another issue also mentioned: It's difficult to find a doctor who will accept Medicare patients. Yes, it is. Before I left the states, they were getting scarcer and scarcer. Why? Because the doctors' compensation was not in line with what they could get from private patients or non-Medicare insured patients. The CA county I lived in was a Silicon Valley suburb, but was classified as "rural" by the powers that ran Medicare compensation, and the doctors were on a low pay scale as a result. The cost of living in that county was sky high, so the docs were in a bind.

Why don't you discuss those issues instead of bets and beer?

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