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YucaLandia

Jun 22, 2012, 7:49 PM

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Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Spent yesterday afternoon talking with 2 different INM border agents, 3 different Aduana officials (including 30 minutes with a supervisor) and with 2 Banjercito personnel, including a supervisor at the Chetumal / Belize border.

Here's a quick summary of some key points:
~ The Banjercito officials were very emphatic about encouraging people with Temporary Import Permits for vehicles, that they start updating their INM permits process as early as possible (30 days before the expiration date), and they said to notify Aduana in person, in writing, of the extension of the car permit expiration date by AT LEAST a week before the expiration date, and 2 weeks if possible. (This means notifying Aduana of the new expiration date at least 22 days before the official date reported on Aduana websites.)

They said that the system between Aduana and Banjercito for updating expiration dates is not always working rapidly, and the STRONGLY ENCOURAGED notifying Aduana in person with an official letter long before official "15 days after the issuance date" of the renewed INM permit.

~ Talking with the Banjercito supervisor, and directly watching her enter the car permit information for a lost paper copy of a permit (still had a valid sticker and current FM2 - and I had a clear view to read all of the Banjercito computer data entry screens and search results), they clearly use our passport numbers to track our temporary import permits. The supervisor typed in the owner's passport number, and all of the key data regarding him and his permit and his vehicle popped up.

~ Even with an intact sticker, valid FM2, official TIP permit number & VIN etc printed out from their system, and the Banjercito personnel confirming the VIN and validity of the TIP ~ they required that the owner abandon (apply to cancel) the old existing TIP (because of the loss of the paper copy of the permit). After cancelling the existing TIP, Aduana and Banjercito required a fresh $400 deposit (previous deposit was forfeited because he was beyond the 15 day grace period after receiving his new FM2 - lost even though the prior deposit was made back in 2008).

~ Even though gringos report that they must physically leave Mexico to renew an FMM, we got 1 adult and 1 teenager new FMMs, (surrendering their old FM2s) at the small INM office on the Mexico side of the border, without leaving Mexico and with no overnight stay in Belize.

~ All of the info in this post fits what we have reported in past Yucalandia articles, so, we were pleased to travel to the Belize border with the friend to act as translator & facilitator - giving multiple chances to confirm in person in detailed discussions of some contested items regarding INM, Aduana, and Banjercito procedures - by asking supervisors of each gob. org. specific questions, repeated several times with slightly different wording each time, to confirm that we understood.
http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...xico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/
http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...ing-a-car-in-mexico/
http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...o-mexico-banjercito/

~ After 4 years of occasional traffic stops, and multiple checks at police and military retens in Mexico, for the first time ever, the owner of the vehicle was asked to show his paper copy of the Temporary Import Permit. This happened today at the Q. Roo - Yucatan intrastate border near Dziuche. (We did not offer him the permit, he asked for it immediately after seeing the Texas plates on the van.) The Aduana agent at the state border checked the paper permit information against the new sticker and the VIN, and waved us through.... We mention this because he said that we must have documentation of the TIPs new expiration date, and the paper copy of the TIP, and the sticker in place, all with us in the vehicle, or the vehicle could be confiscated. The owner grinned, because this was the first time in 4 years that he was completely legal - as of just yesterday afternoon.

Hope this helps,
steve
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Rolly

Jun 22, 2012, 8:13 PM

Post #2 of 15 (4640 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Steve, you wrote "...to notify Aduana in person..."
Does this mean that contact by mail is no longer allowed?
Even for folks who live far from an Aduana office?
Do you think this is a nation-wide rule, or just that office's rule?

Rolly Pirate

johanson

Jun 22, 2012, 11:34 PM

Post #3 of 15 (4622 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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All I know is that I entered Mexico with my then new Ford Explorer in 2000, and I got the appropriate paperwork at that time. I don't ever plan to drive it out. It only has 30,000 miles on it. And of course in the old days we never paid anything and we have never reported to Aduan~a ever. And perhaps 20% of the vehicles brought here (Chapala Ajijic, Joco, etc) don't have updated US license plates either.

Am I reading that we too have update the paperwork every year on our vehicles, or by doing so are you only protecting the deposit you now have to actually make.

Signed Pete

AKA Help :)

YucaLandia

Jun 23, 2012, 7:02 AM

Post #4 of 15 (4586 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Rolly,
Excellent question. We have had supervisors from both the Progreso and the Chetumal/Belize Q. Roo Aduana offices tell us that notifications of permit's new expiration dates must be done in person. At Yucalandia, we have received several reports of ZERO success in using the mail to file the notification of a new permit expiration date with the Mexico City Aduana's office.

We understand that the rule to annually notify Aduana of our updated expiration dates of INM permits has been in place for roughly 20 years, but that it was not enforced. ~ Most of the time, non-enforcement of rules makes expats happy. ~ The relatively recent installation of new national computerized database systems for INM, Aduana, and Banjercito now allows them to now track our indiscretions very easily, (replacing the old cumbersome paper systems where record sharing between far-flung offices was very difficult). The old days of "Please press hard enough to make 4 copies: Yellow, Pink, Blue, and Goldenrod." are long gone.

Unfortunately, some local/regional Aduana offices (e.g. Tuxpan, Vera Cruz) are still not on board with using the new system, based on expat reports. (Tuxpan Aduana office personnel give expats blank looks when they try to register their new permit's expiration dates.)

Another variant of trying to use the mail to register a new permit expiration date: The Banjercito computer program automatically confiscates the deposits 15 days after the permit's "old" expiration date. If the expat waits until the end of their FM2 or FM3 permit's expiration date to start renewing their INM permit, and INM takes 2 weeks to process the renewal, then there really is no time left for expats to use the mail to deliver a letter on-time to Aduana in Mexico City before Banjercito confiscates the deposit.

This means that it does not seem possible to use the mail to effectively make the systems work.
Is it better to do things in ways-that-work, or is it better insist that we are "right" about some theoretical legal point? (See following post about theory vs. practice).

According to the Chetumal, Quintana Roo Banjercito office** supervisor: Once the deposit has been confiscated, she said they really cannot refund it. She said that Banjercito has NOT been receiving rapid/timely updates from Aduana of expat's permit's new expiration dates, so she emphasized that it is the car owner's responsibility to file their notice of the new expiration dates with Aduana in-person at least a week before the annual expiration date to make the systems work.

Personal perspective: A $400 USD incentive for starting an application process early, is enough for me, but I was also one of those goofy University students who got my studying done first, and then played-around - since it was a whole lot more fun to get work done early, and then play around, go to bed on time, and get a good night's sleep before exams, rather than staying-up-late in a semi-panic, cramming information that is then forgotten a week later. It's a whole lot more pleasant to do things smoothly in well-planned ways that work, than choosing to stand in last-minute lines, and stress & pray that we slide under some deadline.
steve

** The Chetumal, Quintana Roo Banjercito offices we used were actually the border offices at the crossing between the Free Zone of Corozal, Belize and Subteniente López on the Mexican side.
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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 23, 2012, 8:51 AM)

YucaLandia

Jun 23, 2012, 7:08 AM

Post #5 of 15 (4583 views)

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Re: [johanson] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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I forgot to report that ALL of the agents and supervisors we talked with at Subteniente López, Q. Roo border crossing treated us WONDERFULLY. INM, Aduana, and Banjercito agents were helpful, prompt, patient, very friendly, and very professional. (thrifty, brave, clean & reverent?)

~ Every single one provided detailed precise easy-to-follow information of exactly what we needed. ~

We actually arrived a bit late (4:50 PM) at the Banjercito office, as they officially close at 5:00 PM.
It was already 5:00 PM when we finished the Q&A session with them about the car permit stuff, and they could have simply gone home for the day. Instead, the Banjercito supervisor told us exactly which Aduana office to go to (upstairs), whom to see, and she offered to stay late to print out the proof of the old TIP permit to submit to Aduana, and then to process the new Banjercito permit, so we would not have to wait in the long lines the following morning.

The Aduana personnel were also very helpful: personally drafting and printing the special request letter we needed to cancel the old lost permit, plus Aduana's personnel made multiple foto-copies (of driver's license front and back, etc) for us to give to Banjercito. In the meantime, while Aduana was doing their entries and paperwork, the Banjercito took fotos of the VIN, removed the sticker, and pre-prepared ALL their paperwork, (anticipating Aduana's approvals), so they were completely ready to finalize the Banjercito processes immediately after Aduana finished their parts.

Even though the Banjercito window was officially closed, they kept a side-door open for us, and gave us lots of TLC.

Due to people staying late and going-above-and-beyond, we walked straight from Aduana to the side-door of Banjercito with our new papers, where we simply gave Banjercito a credit card ~ bing, bang, boom ~ the process was done smoothly with no waiting in lines. We were back on the road by 5:45.

KUDOS to ALL of them !

~ Maybe a little honey really does go a lot further than vinegar...? ~

(Sweet-talk & polite deferential respectful behavior vs. accusations, pressuring, dumping-frustration, and attempts at bullying ???) We consistently choose and seek ways to pull-the-levers, twist the knobs, & push-the-buttons to get our pellets and avoid the shocks.

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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 23, 2012, 7:27 AM)

playaboy

Jun 23, 2012, 7:17 AM

Post #6 of 15 (4575 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Did you ask the supervisor about needing a TIP sticker if you are only going to be in QROO?

YucaLandia

Jun 23, 2012, 7:24 AM

Post #7 of 15 (4574 views)

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Re: [playaboy] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Arrrrrgh !!!

Beautiful question.... I didn't think to ask... *sigh*

In the choice of shocks or pellets, I guess we tend to become either "shock-people" or "pellet-people" .
I prefer pellets, but in this case, there was neither a pellet nor a shock (since we do not live in Q. Roo)? *grin*
steve
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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 23, 2012, 8:54 AM)

Rolly

Jun 23, 2012, 9:00 AM

Post #8 of 15 (4534 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Since one must show up at an Aduana office in person, and since not all offices are set up to process car papers, it would seem wise to locate a participating office before the actual time of need. For some folks, this may mean considerable travel. This sure makes having a 'Mexican' car look even more attractive.

Rolly Pirate

YucaLandia

Jun 23, 2012, 9:32 AM

Post #9 of 15 (4522 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Good plan to ID how each area's Aduana office is acting.

What if we used this thread for people to report and build a list of how each Aduana office is actually working - along with a list of how State border checks are working?

Aduana Office procedures in the Sur Este:
The Progreso Aduana office requires people to come there in person, (with your car and INM documents), and fill out their pre-printed form for annually updating TIPs. After 4 days, you return to the muelle (pier), and they give you a custom letter to carry in your car, officially documenting your new TIP expiration date.

The Chetumal, Q. Roo, (Subtiniente López / Corozal border crossing) Aduana office asks you to come in person to register your new expiration date.

One recent expat report from Tuxpan, Vera Cruz, says that their Aduana office is currently not complying with Federal rules.

State Border and Police Reten Requirements:
We have had Yucatan state border Puestos de Control require official documentation of the current expiration dates of TIPS - NOT accepting the original TIP expiration date plus current FM2 or FM3 cards. They have been giving warnings up to this point for people with no Aduana documentation of the renewed expiration dates - but they caution that in the future they will begin confiscating cars. These requirements are being made at both the Q. Roo Dziuche-Yucatan border control stop, and at the Campeche-Merida highway Yucatan border control stop.

Mazatlan Aduana also has their own pre-printed form for registering your renewed TIP expiration date:
https://skydrive.live.com/...26D3AC1CB3CCBB%21223

Reports of actual current conditions from other parts of Mexico?
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Read-on MacDuff
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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 23, 2012, 9:38 AM)

sparks

Jun 23, 2012, 9:40 AM

Post #10 of 15 (4513 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Never run into a border check except for periodic military ones

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

careyeroslib

Jun 24, 2012, 5:25 AM

Post #11 of 15 (4358 views)

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Re: [sparks] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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We´re driivng again in a couple of weeks, but in April we had one or two military checkpoints and a couple of agricultural checkpoints driving from Puerto Vallarta through Guadalajara, Matehuala. Saltillo, Nuevo Laredo. Same as always. (since 2001)

YucaLandia

Jun 28, 2012, 1:47 AM

Post #12 of 15 (4015 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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Further Updates:

We had a dedicated Yucalandia reader report the current contact information in Aduana, Mexico City, for submitting your request to update your expiration date on a TIP (if your local Aduana office does not want to handle this).

Administracion General de Aduanas
Administracion Central de Operacion Aduanera
Av. Hidalgo No 77, Modulo 1V, primera piso
Col.Guerrero, Delegacion Cauthtemoc
Codigo Postal 06300, Mexico, DF

Further:
If you need to directly contact the Mexico City Aduana office listed above, the dedicated reader reported on June 28, 2012:
"The guy to speak to now ( and as he himself said … when the govt’ comes in with the new President a lot of people might lose their jobs to croniism ) is ” ANDRES AGUILAR ” … who speaks good English and he can be reached at the same main Aduana number, then press 7,2,1,1 and ask for extension 49584 to reach him directly.
Also if you run into blank looks at a regional Aduana Office ask them to call him and he will explain what they have to do."This reader's information appears both current and accurate. Read more at http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...ing-a-car-in-mexico/ "Importing and Driving a Car in Mexico".
steve
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(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 28, 2012, 1:48 AM)

Rolly

Jun 28, 2012, 8:52 AM

Post #13 of 15 (3944 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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he can be reached at the same main Aduana number,
Do you know the number?

Rolly Pirate

careyeroslib

Jul 19, 2012, 1:05 PM

Post #14 of 15 (3199 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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This is re: Yucalandia´s request that people report on the presence of any checks in different States

We just recently drove down from Nuevo Laredo on Monday (July 16/12) via Matehuala, San Luis Pitosí and Guadalajara to Puerto Vallarta, passing through a fair number of States. We weren´t stopped or checked anywhere, not even at the INM and Customs booths past Nuevo Laredo. We had our INM cards out to show the officer but he just waved us through. Same with Customs. We drove past the booth and the officer waved us through. No questions. No "red light, green light" procedure. It didn´t even feel like a border area.

We went through two military checkpoints going south and saw two going north. Again, we were waved through. No other checkpoints of any kind.

YucaLandia

Jul 20, 2012, 6:02 AM

Post #15 of 15 (3109 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Updates on INM Procedures and Aduana & Banjercito Procedures

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In Reply To

he can be reached at the same main Aduana number,
Do you know the number?

From the Aduana website:
" Desde la Republica Mexicana al telefono 01800-46-36-728 marcando las siguientes opciones en el menu 7-2-2-1-1

Desde Esatdos Unidos y Canadá 18774488728 marcando las siguientes opciones en el menu 7-2-2-1-1 "
http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/...culos/141_10028.html

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