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Musicman

Jun 18, 2012, 12:50 PM

Post #1 of 29 (5946 views)

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Chapala shut down?

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Are people really afraid to leave there homes?
See the Reuters link

http://www.reuters.com/...dUSBRE85H00320120618


(This post was edited by DavidMcL on Jun 18, 2012, 3:05 PM)



bournemouth

Jun 18, 2012, 1:42 PM

Post #2 of 29 (5924 views)

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Re: [Musicman] Chapal shut down?

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Should your heading be "Chapala shut down"?


Musicman

Jun 18, 2012, 1:50 PM

Post #3 of 29 (5918 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Chapal shut down?

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Yes! My apologies. I certainly know better.


stevebrtx

Jun 18, 2012, 9:05 PM

Post #4 of 29 (5852 views)

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Re: [Musicman] Chapal shut down?

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Yes, another drive by media "hit piece". Where do they find these people and wow, I wish I could have got paid for writing junk like this. But, it does do one thing for us down here, keeps the riff raff out and the rent prices low - sadly.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


johninajijic

Jun 19, 2012, 9:35 PM

Post #5 of 29 (5727 views)

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Re: [Musicman] Chapala shut down?

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Chapala shut down. It never shut down and neither did Ajijic. What a load of crap from these foreign journalists who continue to paint Mexico as such a dangerous place so as to keep Americans home in their own country to spend tourist $$$. All because America is going into the toilet financially.


arbon

Jun 20, 2012, 8:27 AM

Post #6 of 29 (5676 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Chapala shut down?

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John, are you sure you can get (affordable) medical insurance when you get back to the States?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



johninajijic

Jun 20, 2012, 10:01 AM

Post #7 of 29 (5652 views)

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Re: [arbon] Chapala shut down?

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I don't know why you say that unless you think I'm not over 65. Medicare is free. Part B costs very little. Then you need a MAP (Medicare Advantage Plan) or MAPD (Medicare Advantage Drug Plan) plan. I can get one at no monthly cost and pay just deductibles. I worked out the figures between paying Seg Monterrey $ 6,600 US for two and the above. Seg Monterrey increases premiums 15 - 20% a year when you get my age of 68. The savings is approx $ 3,000 US enough to pay RE taxes in NC.


Musicman

Jul 5, 2012, 9:23 AM

Post #8 of 29 (5034 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Chapal shut down?

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And it should also read, "their homes", not there. Who knows how well I will spell in another month. Too funny!
Big Alz is here to stay.


Chapala Payaso

Jul 6, 2012, 11:32 AM

Post #9 of 29 (4888 views)

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Re: [Musicman] Chapal shut down?

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The nice thing about those articles is that it tends to keep the gringos home in the US and Canada.


don pedro


Jul 6, 2012, 6:19 PM

Post #10 of 29 (4824 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Chapal shut down?

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The nice thing about those articles is that it tends to keep the gringos home in the US and Canada.

that's my favourite part plus the ones that are leaving-SNORK!
http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com
naivete is a chronIc disease and by its very nature;the afflicted never know they have it.-SNORK!


johninajijic

Jul 6, 2012, 6:22 PM

Post #11 of 29 (4823 views)

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Re: [don pedro] Chapal shut down?

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It may keep them home for awhile, but damn few and I mean damn few left.

To clarify the title of this misleading thread, Chapala NEVER shut down nor did Ajijic.


bronco

Jul 9, 2012, 9:40 PM

Post #12 of 29 (4590 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Chapal shut down?

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did so!! chapala was very quiet @ night for a while. & ajijic had few people out after 8pm for several days. schools were closed, people were home early. the aroebics was canceled for 2 weeks in upper ajijic. that was in MAY, old news. no it dosnt keep the freaks away.


FHBOY

Jul 11, 2012, 1:37 PM

Post #13 of 29 (4463 views)

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Re: [bronco] Chapal shut down?

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OMG! Call out the militia! Get out your citizens patrol! There was no actual violence and nothing happened except there were no people on the street after 8:00 pm. Must have been an alien invasion.

Listen to yourselves. You are living in a place that is so wonderful that even a small incident as happened a few weeks ago have you running around like Chicken Littles. Coma back to the world we who don't live there live in. In my city in the last two weeks there have been over 7 murders, an off duty cop killed a kid, and to date we have had only 105 murders this year!

I know - I sound like an ass, and I apologize, but you can only look at your situation from your own paradigm (one I will be sharing come February), but that paradigm, the reason you (and I) have chosen to live in Lakeside is blinding you to what the "real" world is like, the one you (and I soon) do not live in.

I came to my city here about 20 years ago, and I came here for a job and the great place that I knew it was. It took 20 years to watch how the people here tore down their city, bad mouthed it, criticized everything in it, to make me agree with them. Don't do that to where I am coming next, please?


Dreamer Blue

Jul 12, 2012, 6:58 AM

Post #14 of 29 (4379 views)

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Re: [FHBOY] Chapal shut down?

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You look like a lot less of an ass than many of the other posts here - and you are right on. Came back NOB for a visit and the first evening the news announced there had been 3 murders in downtown. Give me Lakeside any day.


papayalover

Jul 12, 2012, 7:53 AM

Post #15 of 29 (4363 views)

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Re: [Dreamer Blue] Chapal shut down?

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Sadly, things are different here now and probably forever. The pain is evident in the eyes of my Mexican neighbors; it has not gone away. At least 6 restaurants have closed, and no one has reopened in their place of business. There are many many moving sales, daily. I have lived here 8 years fulltime, but it's time to look at other Mexican destinations for this expat, places where the normal Mexican happiness continues. The slaughter of twenty locals has left its scar here for many years to come.

I write this with tears in my eyes, I never dreamed I would leave this piece of Paradise, never.


(This post was edited by papayalover on Jul 12, 2012, 7:56 AM)


johanson


Jul 12, 2012, 8:44 AM

Post #16 of 29 (4327 views)

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Re: [papayalover] Chapal shut down?

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I go up north each May, this time, ten days after the terrible happenings. I just came back a week ago. and boy are things closer to being back to normal and when I speak to the local population, they're feeling better and better all of the time.

I believe that things will slowly continue to get better lakeside as long as the world economy gets better and as long as Northern News Papers don't go overboard making it sound like all of Mexico is like the Mexican boarder states.

But should there be another mass execution of innocents like there was last May, I might change my mind about this lakeside paradise.


FHBOY

Jul 12, 2012, 1:45 PM

Post #17 of 29 (4268 views)

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Re: [papayalover] Chapal shut down?

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With all due respect as a new poster, I do not mean to be argumentative, but can you draw a direct line from the "slaughter.." to the closing of restaurants? Couldn't they just have failed economically? I mean, did some cartel bandito come and threaten the owners to make them leave? Was it like the protection rackets of the 20th century in the USA (and even now) by the cartels specifically?

As for scars, while dramatic, they in general heal after a while.

Your post reminds me of the "white flight" we saw in the cities of the USA decades ago, where fear overcame common sense and logic, and now those areas fled from are being "gentrified" and normalcy is returning and the people who stayed are reaping the benefits (they aren't paying outrageous prices for tenement flats, like on the Lower East Side of Manhattan).

The drug related violence you see in Mexico is nothing, I repeat, nothing as compared to the drug violence in the USA as it directly affects the lives of the expat residents of Lakeside. How? In Mexico the gangs are gunning down the gangs, here in the USA, the street dealers, on our very streets, are gunning down other dealers randomly; users are going after other users or pushers randomly on the streets we all walk on every day. Are you going to tell me that the streets of Ajijic and Chapala and Jocotepec have regular drive by shootings at houses, and that children playing in the street are being killed? Are you being shot at in the plaza, are you really scared of that happening? Are you wondering if the person you walk down the street with is drugged up and carrying a gun and you may get shot if you don't smile the correct way? We are, here NOB - in some of our best cities.

I'm sorry, you do not understand how the rest of the world functions and feel the need to flee. From history you can tell that you can't run far enough or fast enough to get away from the world. You may leave Lakeside, and by abandoning it "give" it to the cartels, but wherever you go, you will never be able to settle - trouble will find you.

Common sense will save you - know where and when to go out, provide perimeter defense for your home and do not give up the streets of the community, no moving away. Will I change my tune once I live there come February? I don't think so, because I've spent 60+ years living here and there is much, much better.


papayalover

Jul 12, 2012, 2:29 PM

Post #18 of 29 (4258 views)

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Re: [FHBOY] Chapal shut down?

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Yes there were driveby shooting/killings in April, at Easter, and at least 3 grenade attacks in the streets. This was the 'beginning' we realize now in hindsight. The Zetas are here; the Zetas do not come into an area and then simply leave. This battle is not over. Everyone's waiting for the next shoe to drop. The atmosphere is strained, there is little laughter.

I am not fearful; expats are not the target, but it is too difficult to watch Mexican families live in fear. They and their children are the targets. The Tapatios have not returned to their Lake homes; without them, local businesses and workers cannot survive. Already I have seen more begging in the streets this week than in the previous entire year.

The restaurants are failing because there is no business. No one is going out. The same thing happened in Morelia in Michoacan. The fear engulfs the city; no one goes out, restaurants close; the city becomes a ghost town as its economy collapses. It is not the violent scenes you see in Monterrey; it is a slow, quiet, yet equally painful death of a culture. Life's too short to live like this.

I will not return to the US; but there are many other wonderful places in Mexico untouched by the narco violence.


(This post was edited by papayalover on Jul 12, 2012, 2:31 PM)


Musicman

Jul 12, 2012, 2:55 PM

Post #19 of 29 (4246 views)

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Re: [papayalover] Chapal shut down?

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 "there are many other wonderful places in Mexico untouched by the narco violence."

Which areas are untouched? Seriously.


papayalover

Jul 12, 2012, 3:32 PM

Post #20 of 29 (4231 views)

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Re: [Musicman] Chapal shut down?

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http://www.gadling.com/...afe-places-to-visit/

http://travel.usatoday.com/...vel-spots/53123854/1

http://canadatravels.com/...-to-visit-in-mexico/

Personally, Oaxaca fits the bill for me; winter at the beaches, the rest of the time in a World Heritage City with the best cuisine in Mexico.


FHBOY

Jul 12, 2012, 5:02 PM

Post #21 of 29 (4202 views)

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Re: [papayalover] Chapal shut down?

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As a "not yet there" I do not have the creds to make an argument about the conditions on the ground. But from the outside it appears not as bad as being what I construed as "time to leave" from some of the posts. I have no really extensive knowledge of the cartels reach into communities, but from other forums I am involved with the sentiment was not as (for the lack of a better term) desperate as I read here.

Look, in the end it is your opinion and mine as to where we want to live...is there a better place to live. As I said, maybe in a couple of years of being in Ajijic I could echo the same feelings and opinions, but for now it is better than NOB.

What I do appreciate is the good discussion and civility of the dialog and can only hope that we find our final place there, because we know it is not NOB.

Buena Suerte and good travels.

Peace.


bronco

Jul 12, 2012, 7:41 PM

Post #22 of 29 (4173 views)

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Re: [FHBOY] Chapal shut down?

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"alien invasion"? no, just your average kidnaps, beheadings, displaying of body parts, extortions, road blocks, federal police, military. you sound like you come from a crappy part of the USA. an off limit area in an inner city or some fly over place. if things get bad here again you will feel @ home! you are just the kind of person who will be here, as others leave. i myself dont live where the trouble was. but i can recommend some really dangerous places if you like. then you can play the comparison game, brag what a tough guy you are.

(This post was edited by bronco on Jul 12, 2012, 9:11 PM)


FHBOY

Jul 13, 2012, 7:21 AM

Post #23 of 29 (4108 views)

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Re: [bronco] Chapal shut down?

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Bronco: I do not usually spend my time on blogs to fight with others nor to find ego increase. There is an apparent, if inadvertent, vitriol in your response that I will tend to ignore and continue on.

The city I live in has the 26th largest population in the USA. We support two major league sports teams, several world class universities, the nation's leading hospital and a pioneering tourist area. Lately we have seen our skyline dotted with construction cranes while other cities are quiet. There is a rebirth of gentrification, the reuse of old buildings, rather than tearing them down. The population of the city, while in overall decline, has seen an influx of middle class people into re-gentrified neighborhoods. Our port and airport are busy and the port serves as a major gateway for importation of vehicles. There is a vibrant nightlife as well as a symphony, major legitimate theater, opera company. One of the new major manufacturers of sports wear was founded and is based here, by a local boy. We even have a metro and light rail system. Our citizens have been leaders in film, politics, jurisprudence, industry and entertainment. It is by no means a "crappy part of the USA...fly over place."

It is the city of Baltimore.

If you'd read my previous post you'll notice I said that I came here twenty years ago for all the good things that still exist and I watched and listened to the natives, reading their newspapers, watching their TV as they systematically destroyed the city by constantly accenting negativity. Yes, we have our areas that are like Fort Apache in the Bronx, every city and town has, but to live thrive and survive on a daily basis, these areas are avoidable and are, or will be, slowly improved, at least those areas that have not been abandoned to fear and where people believe that they can make a difference and keep their neighborhoods clean by not succumbing to fear.

You seem to have missed my point. I do not deny "your average kidnaps.....police and military" happens in Jalisco or near Lakeside, but my point is this: Just as in Baltimore, life goes on day-to-day, the average person here does not live in fear, we just go about our business knowing the territory. I observed the same thing in Ajijic when I was there in the spring and will see it again when I arrive next month. I do not expect to see the Plaza empty of people, I do not expect the Chapala malecon to be a ghost town, the markets sparse of shoppers, the street abandoned of cars. I expect to see people going about their daily routines, especially expats, and living a life they want. Maybe they are a bit more aware, but not fearful, not as it seems to be described here on this thread.

Bronco, what it appears you fail to appreciate in my posts is that while what you see has a reason to flee, because you have lived in this beautiful place for so long, to the rest of us who are not there the horrible acts seem not to touch you on a personal, every day basis level. Yes, your Mexican friends are in mourning and fearful, that is a tragedy, but you do not hide in your home because of that and by prior admission, the events do not, generally in your area touch or threaten the expat population first hand. The one incident of last year, when an expat was killed during a robbery is the only incident that I have heard about here NOB, and resisting a robbery when you are outnumbered is foolish no matter where you live. I do not see daily crime reports coming from your town, I do not read about the seven people who got shot on the street as we read here on a regular basis.

And yes, if people choose out of fear to abandon Ajijic/Chapala, it will become a self fulfilling prophesy, the cartels will control it totally. You further assume that I am some "buckaroo" looking for trouble, to the contrary, I am looking for a rebirth of my life in the 60's, and that I have found in Ajijic, but I am willing to try and keep it that way - by going about my day-to-day life, and not fearing.

Yes, I do fear sections of Baltimore and certain times of the day in Baltimore, but not because of organized murder or kidnaps etc like you have seen in Mexico, but because of random violence, person on person crime, a proliferation of weapons. And yes, I will not travel in Mexico at certain times to certain places, I am no fool. But I am, likewise not a person to live in a closet in fear. There is too much to see, to experience and even stepping off the curb in downtown has risk. I do not see the risk factor as being as high in Ajijic even as it is here in Baltimore.

BTW - I was born and raised in NYC - maybe that explains me better.


papayalover

Jul 13, 2012, 8:10 AM

Post #24 of 29 (4095 views)

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Re: [FHBOY] Chapal shut down?

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As a "not yet there" I do not have the creds to make an argument about the conditions on the ground.


Listen to people who are here on the ground. Do some research; find another place in Mexico that is still joyful. I know it sucks that you've planned this move when things were wonderful here, but you need to re-think your plans.

Most are not leaving out of fear, leaving out of sadness.

Other posters here own their homes; what else can they say, but things will get better?

Keep Ajijic on the back burner in case most are wrong and things get better. Maybe in a few years it'll be a happy place again.


(This post was edited by papayalover on Jul 13, 2012, 8:15 AM)


FHBOY

Jul 13, 2012, 9:00 AM

Post #25 of 29 (4062 views)

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Re: [papayalover] Chapal shut down?

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Pappayalover, I do not know you, do not know your background and know nothing other than what you've posted here, and you sound so sad and negative.

I have only one question:

Where are you going and when are you leaving?

Because you surely can't stay there any more. I hope that the pasture is greener where you are heading soon.
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