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Bennie García

Jun 7, 2012, 2:26 PM

Post #1 of 16 (10124 views)

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Say what Josefina?

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Estudiante, cantante, paciente, adolescente , representante and many others........all follow correct grammatical form, the verb + the correct suffix.

So where does Josefina (and I've seen other billboards with female candidates for president of their local municipalities use the word, too.) come up with presidenta??? And for those who will look it up at RAE, they list presidenta but many linguists do not agree. And if you search first for presidente they do not show a feminine form.



tashby


Jun 7, 2012, 2:57 PM

Post #2 of 16 (10118 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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Ella es diferenta.

(Jez pokin' fun at her slogan.)


YucaLandia


Jun 7, 2012, 4:05 PM

Post #3 of 16 (10107 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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Using:
" Josefina Diferente, Presidenta 2012 "

to learn Spanish, has the same problems as trying to learn Spanish or English from any advertising.

I'm off to take some Aleve to alleve my headache.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


joaquinx


Jun 7, 2012, 4:08 PM

Post #4 of 16 (10103 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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Serious? We create new words everyday, especially in ads. Dictionaries are not the final arbitrator of words, but merely reflect usage.

Where did you lunch today? What? Lunch is not a verb, but a noun, yet usage gives it validity and the dictionary would disagree.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


Bennie García

Jun 7, 2012, 4:14 PM

Post #5 of 16 (10097 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Say what Josefina?

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Yes, serious. Language evolves but that doesn't mean that every mistaken usage should oe will become accepted as correct.

Will you be visiting your dentisto anytime soon? Will the estudiantes and estudiantas share student housing or be kept seperate?

BTW:

Noun 1. lunch - a midday meal, dejeuner, luncheon, tiffin
meal, repast - the food served and eaten at one time
business lunch - lunch (usually at a restaurant) where business is discussed and the cost is charged as a business expense

Verb 1.lunch - take the midday meal; "At what time are you lunching?"
eat - eat a meal; take a meal; "We did not eat until 10 P.M. because there were so many phone calls"; "I didn't eat yet, so I gladly accept your invitation"

2. lunch - provide a midday meal for; "She lunched us well"
feed, give - give food to; "Feed the starving children in India"; "don't give the child this tough meat"


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Jun 7, 2012, 4:20 PM)


cbviajero

Jun 7, 2012, 4:21 PM

Post #6 of 16 (10093 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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Some form of political marketing strategy?
Either way it does'nt seem to be working,AMLO passed her and is gaining on EPN.
As far as "lonches" go, dame una de pierna con todo por favor.


(This post was edited by cbviajero on Jun 7, 2012, 4:33 PM)


Bennie García

Jun 7, 2012, 4:48 PM

Post #7 of 16 (10087 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Say what Josefina?

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There are other examples besides Josefina using the word incorrectly from all parties. It is like Fox's infamous "mexicanos y mexicanas" statement. The US equivalent would be "Bushisms".

And in Spanish the words for meals derive from verbs, just as presidente derives from a verb.


morgaine7


Jun 7, 2012, 5:19 PM

Post #8 of 16 (10082 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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The municipio where I live is one of those with a presidenta. She is PRI.
http://www.lapaz.gob.mx/presidenta/index.html
Her PRD predecessor was also a presidenta. Both are referred to as such in the newspaper. To my '70s US mindset, it's like calling them "lady presidents". On the other hand I've had work done by a contratista and an electricista, both of whom were male.

Kate


Bennie García

Jun 7, 2012, 5:42 PM

Post #9 of 16 (10075 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Say what Josefina?

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In Reply To
The municipio where I live is one of those with a presidenta. She is PRI.
http://www.lapaz.gob.mx/presidenta/index.html
Her PRD predecessor was also a presidenta. Both are referred to as such in the newspaper. To my '70s US mindset, it's like calling them "lady presidents". On the other hand I've had work done by a contratista and an electricista, both of whom were male.

Kate


And to most people calling them an electricisto or contratisto would sound very strange.


La Isla


Jun 7, 2012, 7:21 PM

Post #10 of 16 (10063 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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I think that presidenta is an example of a new word that has become an accepted part of the Spanish language. After all, if the very respected and very conservative RAE has included it in its dictionary, that's a good sign that it is now considered legitimate. And it's not just used in Mexico: Argentina's president is always referred to in the press as la presidenta Cristina Fernández as was the former president of Chile, Michelle Bachelet. Bennie Garcia, I would be very interested in reading what the "many linguists [who] do not agree" with the use of presidenta have to say.


(This post was edited by La Isla on Jun 7, 2012, 7:25 PM)


Bennie García

Jun 7, 2012, 8:08 PM

Post #11 of 16 (10059 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Say what Josefina?

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Here are a few examples. You can find many more on the net.

http://www.codigodiez.mx/...entaopresidente.html

"La Sra. Cristina Fernández de Kirchner es la actual presidente de Argentina y su esposo hacía un mal uso del lenguaje al llamarla presidenta.

Caso contrario en Chile, donde lo aplican bien: la Sra. Bachelet fue Presidente."


http://www.elcastellano.org/...p?Op=ver&Id=2901

"R: Presidente es palabra formada a partir de praesidens, el participio presente del verbo latino praesidere (sentarse delante). Las palabras así formadas suelen ser de género ambiguo: estudiante, ayudante, amante. Sin embargo, en los últimos años se ha impuesto, primero en los medios y luego en los diccionarios, el femenino presidenta, que hoy, indiscutiblemente, forma parte de nuestro acervo léxico. Sin embargo, no por eso ha dejado de ser correcto el femenino la presidente."

http://www.notimexico.com.mx/...-detalle.php?id=1895


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Jun 7, 2012, 8:12 PM)


La Isla


Jun 7, 2012, 8:33 PM

Post #12 of 16 (10053 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Say what Josefina?

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Here are a few examples. You can find many more on the net.

http://www.codigodiez.mx/...entaopresidente.html

"La Sra. Cristina Fernández de Kirchner es la actual presidente de Argentina y su esposo hacía un mal uso del lenguaje al llamarla presidenta.

Caso contrario en Chile, donde lo aplican bien: la Sra. Bachelet fue Presidente."


http://www.elcastellano.org/...p?Op=ver&Id=2901

"R: Presidente es palabra formada a partir de praesidens, el participio presente del verbo latino praesidere (sentarse delante). Las palabras así formadas suelen ser de género ambiguo: estudiante, ayudante, amante. Sin embargo, en los últimos años se ha impuesto, primero en los medios y luego en los diccionarios, el femenino presidenta, que hoy, indiscutiblemente, forma parte de nuestro acervo léxico. Sin embargo, no por eso ha dejado de ser correcto el femenino la presidente."

http://www.notimexico.com.mx/...-detalle.php?id=1895


I also found tons of examples of female presidents being referred to as la presidenta. We'd have to do a statistical study to see which is more common or becoming more common. The fact that both forms are in wide use indicates to me that it is a word in transition. But I am not a professional lexicographer, so take my opinion for what it's worth :-)!


tashby


Jun 7, 2012, 9:40 PM

Post #13 of 16 (10048 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Say what Josefina?

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THIS is why I love MexConnect.

Thanks for bringing up the topic Bennie Garcia. (And damn...why can't I find a copy of that movie with subtitulos? My Spanish is getting better every day, but still....Estrada is so shrewd....I don't want to miss the half of it, or the all of it....bah.)

Back to Josefina: I spent a career in advertising/marketing, though I never worked on a political campaign. I'm certain that's where the answer lies.

Smiley. Face.


Vichil

Jun 23, 2012, 9:14 AM

Post #14 of 16 (9835 views)

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Re: [tashby] Say what Josefina?

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check Amazon.com


mazbook1


Jun 23, 2012, 4:35 PM

Post #15 of 16 (9809 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Say what Josefina?

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The DRAE accepts both la presidenta AND la presidente as terms for a female president, but seems to prefer la presidente for a head of government.


carolgreen363

Sep 27, 2012, 8:08 PM

Post #16 of 16 (8828 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Say what Josefina?

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I'm off to take some Aleve to alleve my headache.
 
 
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