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Chapala Payaso

May 9, 2012, 1:04 PM

Post #1 of 79 (16657 views)

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Uptick in drug gang activity.

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There has been quite a bit of kidnapping of young men in Ajijic, SJC, and Chapala lately. (See Chapala.com) Supposedly these individuals have no connection to the drug business. If that is true, this is a significant escalation in drug violance.

In the most recent kidnappings, 15 people were rescued but the plan was to murder and dump them in GDL. Another Zeta plan. We were used to gang on gang violence and actually dismissed it as the price of doing business. But this is now the culling of innocents and killing them either to make some sort of statement or to create terror in the community.

Not too long ago I proposed my solution to the escalating drug related violence which was promptly dismissed. What say you now?



DavidHF

May 10, 2012, 5:53 AM

Post #2 of 79 (16545 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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All of the facts have not yet come to light. However, from what I'm hearing the victims were not innocents.


Vichil

May 10, 2012, 7:22 AM

Post #3 of 79 (16514 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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How do you know they were innocent?
10 people were rescued, two of the ones who escaped were killed and the others did not stick around....

Meanwhile 18 bodies were found near Ixtahuacan.


tonyburton


May 10, 2012, 7:52 AM

Post #4 of 79 (16500 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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For those interested in details, and analysis, there is an article about the latest violence from El Informador at
http://www.informador.com.mx/...e-los-membrillos.htm
that seems to have more detail than most.
The article is in Spanish, but Sr. Google's translator should give you the gist.


Bennie García

May 10, 2012, 8:08 AM

Post #5 of 79 (16485 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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In Reply To
How do you know they were innocent?
10 people were rescued, two of the ones who escaped were killed and the others did not stick around....

Meanwhile 18 bodies were found near Ixtahuacan.


How do you know they are not? The authorities in Veracruz claimed the victims were all involved in the drug trade and there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. Same goes for the bodies left in Guadalajara. Has it crossed your mind that there can be some covering up going on by the authorities. One reason they might be doing this is to cover up their ineptness at preventing these types of crimes and also to keep the public from becoming even more afraid.


Chapala Payaso

May 10, 2012, 8:23 AM

Post #6 of 79 (16480 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Whether or not the victims were involved in the drug trade is very important. If the druggies are now going after innocent citizens they are either trying to send some message or they are trying to terrorize the citizens. If the latter is the case, this is a significant escalation in the violence since nobody is safe.


johninajijic

May 10, 2012, 9:26 AM

Post #7 of 79 (16457 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Either 12 or 15 people rescued in Tala, a small town outside of GDL. The woman whose house they were in was arrested. They were bound and naked, but one escaped and ran to a nearby tortilleria to call police. This is the result of the Gov't capturing El Chapo. The Zetas are making a statement by clecting bodies and killing them. The 18 bodies found in two vans yesterday were part of this. They were either on Eddy's motel property or along the Chapala- GDL Carretera.

It was said in other articles that they were going to dump the new bodies at Los Arcos in GDL.

There is confusion as to whether or not the 3 boys kidnapped from the Ajijic Malecon on Sat. night at 8 PM, were part of those found alive.


Vichil

May 10, 2012, 9:31 AM

Post #8 of 79 (16454 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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That is the point we do not know if people are innocent , people picked at random or if they are some of the "bad guys". That is exactly what makes all these events so scary.

There is no question that the police has a role in it wether some of them are in with some of the cartels or covering for their incompetence.
I also believe that all people involved in the drug trade are not necessaraly "bad people in my book. Some are in it for their own ego and for money, some are sadists, some are people under peer pressure or under threat so there is a whole gamut of "criminals" who" are in it for very different reasons.

I am not that worked out by people in the trade but I am by the killers wether they kill for money or under threat, once you take someone else life, you are a bad guy in my book and I do not care what happens to them. The drug users are just as guilty as the drug sellers in my book and all these "nice" people using drugs are just as guilty to me as they are the cause of these horror stories.

So in this whole mess the concept of "innocent" or "not innocent" unless they are people totally unrelated to the problem becomes ludicrous.


Vichil

May 10, 2012, 9:36 AM

Post #9 of 79 (16454 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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out of the 15 Two are now dead, they were caught after they escaped and killed according to the news on tv this morning. I hope that amongst 10 peoplea live are the kids from Ajijic, San Juan and San Antonio as well as the adults who disappeared recently. If it is true that some of the victims were recaptured and killed it is very scary for the victims that have been freed.


(This post was edited by Vichil on May 10, 2012, 9:42 AM)


chinagringo


May 10, 2012, 9:39 AM

Post #10 of 79 (16450 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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"This is the result of the Gov't capturing El Chapo."

Say what?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



tonyburton


May 10, 2012, 9:49 AM

Post #11 of 79 (16444 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Very few of the statements in your post match the details given in the Spanish language press. The location for the latest incident is shown on the graphic/map in the article I linked to earlier.


(This post was edited by tonyburton on May 10, 2012, 10:10 AM)


johninajijic

May 10, 2012, 10:02 AM

Post #12 of 79 (16429 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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What statements don't match? What map?

I saw the map posted on lakechapalaforum. The 15 bound and naked bodies were rescued in Tala, just outside GDL.

The 18 bodies were out on the Carretera Chapala-GDL highway near Eddy's motel.

What is confusing?

Update, Mario's son Abel was found dead this morning. He was kidnapped along with two others on the Ajijic malecon on Sat. night at 8 PM.


Vichil

May 10, 2012, 10:10 AM

Post #13 of 79 (16425 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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John

the Chapo is alive and free. There is a 5 million dollars reward on his head.

The paper just confirmed that 2 people from Ajijic and two from Chapala are confirmed dead. More bad news for the area.


johninajijic

May 10, 2012, 10:21 AM

Post #14 of 79 (16419 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Which paper? Where were they found? Did they give names? One of them is Mario's son.


(This post was edited by johninajijic on May 10, 2012, 10:22 AM)


tonyburton


May 10, 2012, 10:23 AM

Post #15 of 79 (16420 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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According to press quotes attributed to the Procurador de Justicia de Jalisco (PGJEJ), Tomás Coronado Olmos,
1. There were 12 people freed in the Tala incident.
2. The reason for these incidents is retaliation for violence in Nuevo Laredo.
3. The latest incident was on a track that runs off the highway and along the side of Eddy's Motel.
4. I have not seen any suggestion that the intended location for dumping the bodies was Los Arcos; though clearly the intended number of bodies (assuming Tala and latest incident are linked) is similar. Actually, Coronado is quoted as saying (paraphrasing) that the perpetrators' intention was to dump the bodies and body parts (some were apparently frozen) in other places (not in Guadalajara Metro Area), which is interpreted in El Informador as meaning in Chapala, Ajijic and Jocotepec.

The news about Mario's son is very depressing; my heartfelt condolences go out to his family, and to the families of all the victims of all these latest violent events.


tonyburton


May 10, 2012, 10:26 AM

Post #16 of 79 (16415 views)

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Re: [johninajijic] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Three of the identified were waiters at "Piedra de Iguana" restaurant:
Carlos Jesús Martínez Delgado
Juan Luis Sandoval Camarena (16)
David Martínez Velázquez (18)

Source: http://www.informador.com.mx/...-de-tres-cuerpos.htm


chinagringo


May 10, 2012, 10:32 AM

Post #17 of 79 (16410 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Tony:

Following the reports of the kidnap victims in Tala being rescued but prior to the announcement of the bodies at Eddy's Motel - there were a few speculative reports suggesting that the final destination was another dump at Los Arcos. The speculation changed when the bodies were found next to the Guadalajara-Chapala Highway. This was all during a period yesterday when the media outlets were trying to "one up" each other with the latest news.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Vichil

May 10, 2012, 10:48 AM

Post #18 of 79 (16402 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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It sounds like the two cousins Martinez who were playing basketball with Abel are also dead. That would be the tragic end of the three young men who were kidnapped from the malecon.


Bennie García

May 10, 2012, 10:55 AM

Post #19 of 79 (16399 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Would you consider them "innocents"?


Vichil

May 10, 2012, 10:58 AM

Post #20 of 79 (16396 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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I consider them dead and wether innocent or not , it is irrelevant to me. I certainly do not believe they did anything to deserve that awful end. God help their family.


Bennie García

May 10, 2012, 11:06 AM

Post #21 of 79 (16387 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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It may be irrelevant to you but it isn't to many here who have children that now apparently run the risk of being sacrificed in order to further the ambitions of disgustingly evil persons.


tonyburton


May 10, 2012, 11:25 AM

Post #22 of 79 (16381 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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I think what Vichil meant (and I agree with her) is that ANY violent death is tragic, regardless of whether or not the victim was "innocent".


Vichil

May 10, 2012, 1:19 PM

Post #23 of 79 (16340 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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Yes Tony you are right this is what I meant.


chinagringo


May 10, 2012, 1:51 PM

Post #24 of 79 (16331 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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During the early years of this so-called war on drugs, I noticed that many of the foreign posters seemed to be able to rationalize or justify what was going on by: 1) saying that these events were only happening close to the border OR 2) saying it was no big deal because it was just the bad guys killing other bad guys. In the case of "1", this is what they wanted to believe and that was what the NOB press was harping on. In both "1"& "2", it was easy to believe and their lack of research in various media sources was very evident. It wasn't prudent to stop and think that the problems might be expanding and that sooner or later, more and more innocents might become involved.

I can guarantee that if this incident had happened somewhere else in Mexico, many wouldn't be the least bit excited and might be inclined to say that it was the victims fault. But, OH MY GOD - it happened in paradise!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



don pedro


May 10, 2012, 2:27 PM

Post #25 of 79 (16320 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Uptick in drug gang activity.

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During the early years of this so-called war on drugs, I noticed that many of the foreign posters seemed to be able to rationalize or justify what was going on by: 1) saying that these events were only happening close to the border OR 2) saying it was no big deal because it was just the bad guys killing other bad guys. In the case of "1", this is what they wanted to believe and that was what the NOB press was harping on. In both "1"& "2", it was easy to believe and their lack of research in various media sources was very evident. It wasn't prudent to stop and think that the problems might be expanding and that sooner or later, more and more innocents might become involved.

I can guarantee that if this incident had happened somewhere else in Mexico, many wouldn't be the least bit excited and might be inclined to say that it was the victims fault. But, OH MY GOD - it happened in paradise!

there is no message that the cartels can impart to each other with any meaning by whacking "innocents". in the afore[sic] mentioned manner..it has become apparent that this territory is important to all concerned. same thing happened in edmonton but on a lesser scale a few years ago.
http://chapalamexicoinfo.createforumhosting.com
naivete is a chronIc disease and by its very nature;the afflicted never know they have it.-SNORK!
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