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Sculptari

May 5, 2012, 10:52 AM

Post #1 of 48 (6530 views)

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Immigration Changes May 2012

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This board has been a great resource for changes to Mexico immigration procedures. Here is an article by Harriet Murray in today's "PV Mirror" paper. She is not a lawyer, she is a realtor, but she is very well connected here in Puerto Vallarta and I have found her advice very accurate the past


Quote
“Over there everything is going to be different; life is
never going to be quite the same again after your passport
has been stamped… It is like starting over again.” - Graham
Greene in “Another Mexico”
Changes in visas for foreigners in Mexico:
1. Visitante: Visitors cannot change their status of residence
(except for humanitarian reasons or those who have links with
a Mexican or are a regular resident alien in Mexico) and they
will have to leave the country at the end of the period of stay
authorized.
The law requires minors traveling alone or without both
parents to carry a notarized letter authorizing their entry/exit
from Mexico.
2. Residente temporario .
3. Residente Permanente: Inmigrado. You cannot renew an
FM-2 or “inmigrante” visa after the fourth annual renewal.
You must apply for “inmigrado” status (which is permanent
residency) 6 months before the visa expires, or you will go back
to a different visa. “Inmigrado” is like a “green card” in the U.S.
by HARRIET MURRAY
Visas for foreigners in Mexico
What visa currently will enable a foreigner
to be exempt from all or partial capital gains?
4. Mexico is introducing a point system also for permanent
residency:
Permanent residency after 4 years of temporary residency
Permanent residency after 2 years of marriage or common law
relationship with Mexican citizen
Permanent residency without 4 years of residency if qualified
by point system
ISR capital income tax for Foreign Residents:
FM2 or inmigrante status, in addition to the visa, must be
demonstrated with proof of residency. This may be done by
showing 6 months or more of original land line phone bills,
Mexican bank account statements, and sometimes CFE electric
bills.
IUD’s determine the maximum value for the sales price of a
property which can be exempt. The current rate of 1,500,000
IUD’s is between 5 million and 6 million pesos for a sale price.
With current currency values, this price is approximately $450,000
USD.
If the seller has not lived in the property for 5 years after
acquiring an FM2, he can have an exemption of the first $450,000
USD of the sale price. He will then owe tax on the difference if his
sale price is higher.
Sellers who have lived in the real estate for 5 years and can
provide proper receipts as mentioned above, and have an RFC
or tax registration number, can be exempt from paying ISR tax.
They can only claim an exemption every 5 years.
This article is based upon legal opinions, current practices
and my personal experiences. I recommend that each
potential buyer or seller of real estate conduct his own due
diligence and review.
You can communicate with Harriet C. Murray at
harriet@casasandvillas.com




stevebrtx

May 5, 2012, 11:17 AM

Post #2 of 48 (6519 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Nice, but again, and as usual here in MX, some gaping holes in the dissertation. I am "no imagrado" originally an FM3 in Sept of 2008. So, I would assume by #2 that I am "Residente temporario" at this moment under the new "labeling". Now, come Sept of this year, if I read it correctly, I am qualified for "Permanente"? So, why would I do that with the exception of becoming a citizen? And, what implications, if any, are implied by the "Permanente" regarding car, sticker, foreign plates, income, time out of country etc?
http://www.chapalaweather.net


La Isla


May 5, 2012, 11:32 AM

Post #3 of 48 (6504 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Quote
Mexico is introducing a point system also for permanent
residency:


This is still in the future, isn't it? None of these changes have been implemented yet, and there's no way to know when and how they will be.


Rolly


May 5, 2012, 11:34 AM

Post #4 of 48 (6505 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Immigration Changes May 2012

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what implications, if any, are implied by the "Permanente" regarding car, sticker, foreign plates, income, time out of country etc?

Assuming the rules will be like the present Inmigrado:
You cannot have a foreign plated car. You can't even drive one.
No out of country time limit.
No income requirement.
No more contact with INM except change of address notification.

Rolly Pirate


YucaLandia


May 5, 2012, 11:44 AM

Post #5 of 48 (6497 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Sculptari,
Nice.

This information fits with pretty much everything we've known since June 1, 2011. It's a little odd that Harriet doesn't use INM's new law's official terminology. The official term for the new temporary resident category is Residente Temporal . Her descriptions of "FM2 or inmigrante" also currently have no long term status in the new law, (they are mentioned only in the Transitional Clauses of the law as identifiers of how the current INM categories will be migrated into Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente).

Good to hear confirmation of what has been described by Rolly, Surviving Yucatan, et al.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


YucaLandia


May 5, 2012, 12:09 PM

Post #6 of 48 (6489 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Immigration Changes May 2012

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La Isla,
The May 2011 "new" immigration law does have some specifics, like the 4 years of Residente Temporal leading to Residente Permanente. The May 2011 new law has a section on a points system (Article 57) with general descriptions of: " Points can be awarded based on level of education, work experience, skills in areas related to the development of science and technology, international surveys, and the skills to develop activities that are required by Mexico. " (Article 57, Item II: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...-mexico-the-article/).

Since these items have been reported in Mexico's Diario Oficial de la Federacíon as law in May, 2011 ( http://dof.gob.mx/...amp;fecha=25/05/2011 ) , they are official, but don't contain the specificity that we are all waiting for in the anticipated El Reglamento .

To close, this thread's "update" fits the things already published in May 2011 's law, and yes, The "new" law does not go into effect, and many details are up-in-the-air, until the Reglamento is issued.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 5, 2012, 12:33 PM)


La Isla


May 5, 2012, 12:15 PM

Post #7 of 48 (6479 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Immigration Changes May 2012

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In Reply To
La Islla,
The May 2011 "new" immigration law does have some specifics, like the 4 years of Residente Temporal leading to Residente Permanente. The May 2011 new law has a section on a points system (Article 57) with general descriptions of: " Points can be awarded based on level of education, work experience, skills in areas related to the development of science and technology, international surveys, and the skills to develop activities that are required by Mexico. " (Article 57, Item II: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/...-mexico-the-article/).

Since these items have been reported in Mexico's Diario Oficial de la Federacíon as law in May, 2011 ( http://dof.gob.mx/...amp;fecha=25/05/2011 ) , they are official, but don't contain the specificity that we are all waiting for in the anticipated El Reglamento .
steve


I´m eagerly waiting for the new law to be implemented. That was the point of my post. Since I just applied for the fourth prórroga of my No Inmigrante visa, I hope the Reglamento that you mention will be in place this time next year.


richmx2


May 5, 2012, 1:31 PM

Post #8 of 48 (6456 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Immigration Changes May 2012

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People like myself and LaIsla (permanent residents, but without family members here) are most likely the ones who will be affected by the point system. According to this well-written recent article retirees aren't really affected by the changes. The points seem to be slanted towards technical and scientific expertise:

The capacities of the applicant, taking into account his education level, labor experience, aptitudes in areas related to the development of science or technology, international recognitions and aptitudes to perform activities that are needed by the country.

It appears the points will be weighted towards technology and specialized workers but, "aptitudes to perform activities that are needed by the country" will probably include people like us, who work here, have responsibilities and aren't causing (too much) trouble... and not just pro athletes and super-models. One hopes.





http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com


mazbook1


May 5, 2012, 2:26 PM

Post #9 of 48 (6432 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Besides being based on nothing except "opinions", legal or otherwise, this particular column adds nothing to our knowledge of what the changes under the new immigration law will be, nor how they will be handled and enforced. Actually, the very first item, #1, is probably flatly wrong, as INM has told a number of folks, semi-officially, that the new "temporary resident" visa, formerly known as the FM3, will no longer be issued at Mexican Consulates in foreign countries, and every newcomer must enter on a "visitante" visa (formerly called FMM or FMT), THEN apply at the nearest INM office for temporary resident status.

Besides, saying that these are changes in May of this year is misleading, as there hasn't been a hint of when the final rules and regulations (necessary before the law itself goes into effect) will be officially published. A lot of folks don't think it will happen until after the new president is sworn in on December 1.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on May 5, 2012, 2:32 PM)


La Isla


May 5, 2012, 4:38 PM

Post #10 of 48 (6385 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Immigration Changes May 2012

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In Reply To
People like myself and LaIsla (permanent residents, but without family members here) are most likely the ones who will be affected by the point system.

It appears the points will be weighted towards technology and specialized workers but, "aptitudes to perform activities that are needed by the country" will probably include people like us, who work here, have responsibilities and aren't causing (too much) trouble... and not just pro athletes and super-models. One hopes.




Hopefully, In my case, being an experienced English teacher and translator will be deemed as "activities needed by the country". Since I work pretty hard (some of the time), pay my taxes and utility bills on time (well, most of the time) and keep the little bit of trouble I cause quiet, I hope I´ll be awarded some of these points.


Sculptari

May 6, 2012, 8:42 AM

Post #11 of 48 (6249 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Immigration Changes May 2012

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You know, I wouldn't worry about Mexican immigration sticking too closely to a "formula" type points system. Canada has a point system which was devised in the late 1970's because the existing system was largely based on the immigration officer's personal opinion - as in 'would I want to live next door to this person?' It was often abused in the sense that someone with strong religious views, homophobic, or just plain opinionated, could skew or reject an otherwise worthy candidate. The Immigration Act has now become the second most voluminous document in Canada (first is income tax). Now I bring this up because this applies to the 'common law' part of Canada, which must look to legal precedent and tight lists of rules. Many non-Canadians do not realize that the Province of Quebec follows a separate legal system, based on civil law (with some overlap with common law). Quebec has a separate immigration office, and takes each application on its merit, subject to peer review. They take a much more humanist approach to immigration. If someone immigrates to Quebec and spends the rest of their working life as a clerk at Home Depot - well that's nothing to get choked about, just more spice to the stew. Mexico is also a civil law legal system, and is very much attuned and experienced at taking each case on its own merits. The only potential problem spot I could see is that if a very nationalistic political power was elected (a Mexican Tea Party), they might require some level of Spanish fluency for the permanent resident category. Quebec, for example, looks very favorably to applicants who speak French.


GringoCArlos

May 6, 2012, 6:27 PM

Post #12 of 48 (6136 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Sculptari quote: "The only potential problem spot I could see is that if a very nationalistic political power was elected (a Mexican Tea Party), they might require some level of Spanish fluency for the permanent resident category."

Is that a bad thing, or better for both a permanent resident and Mexico in general? (and I'm talking about speaking Spanish, not the Tea Party idea)


(This post was edited by GringoCArlos on May 6, 2012, 6:28 PM)


La Isla


May 6, 2012, 7:04 PM

Post #13 of 48 (6122 views)

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Re: [GringoCArlos] Immigration Changes May 2012

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In Reply To
Sculptari quote: "The only potential problem spot I could see is that if a very nationalistic political power was elected (a Mexican Tea Party), they might require some level of Spanish fluency for the permanent resident category."

Is that a bad thing, or better for both a permanent resident and Mexico in general? (and I'm talking about speaking Spanish, not the Tea Party idea)


I think it would be a good idea if expats were given a reasonable amount of time to arrive at a reasonable level of fluency. Does the US have a language requirement for foreigners wanting to be permanent residents?


YucaLandia


May 7, 2012, 8:04 AM

Post #14 of 48 (6042 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Immigration Changes May 2012

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La Isla,
For citizenship*, both the USA and Mexico have their own pools of 100 questions, from which the applicant is given 10. I understand that basic conversation skills are also evaluated by both nations.

Regional Mexican officials have been reported to waive the requirements for people over age 72.
steve

*Edited to distinguish the citizenship vs permanent residency requirements: Thanks Morgaine!
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E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on May 7, 2012, 9:29 AM)


morgaine7


May 7, 2012, 8:31 AM

Post #15 of 48 (6022 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Are you sure that's not for citizenship? I don't know what the US does for the green card, but in Mexico I've never heard of anyone being tested when applying for Inmigrado status.

Kate


GringoCArlos

May 7, 2012, 8:33 AM

Post #16 of 48 (6020 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Immigration Changes May 2012

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Sculptari quote: "The only potential problem spot I could see is that if a very nationalistic political power was elected (a Mexican Tea Party), they might require some level of Spanish fluency for the permanent resident category."

Is that a bad thing, or better for both a permanent resident and Mexico in general? (and I'm talking about speaking Spanish, not the Tea Party idea)


I think it would be a good idea if expats were given a reasonable amount of time to arrive at a reasonable level of fluency. Does the US have a language requirement for foreigners wanting to be permanent residents?


The 4 years needed to get permanent residency status should be enough time to learn passable Spanish, IF one works at it. :-)


careyeroslib

May 7, 2012, 8:39 AM

Post #17 of 48 (6014 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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In all fairness, Harriet has a regular column and may have been trying to alert people in the Puerto Vallarta area who know liittle or nothing about the new law, or for that matter the old law.

I know Harriet personally and I doubt she meant it as new info for people who read Mexico Connect (or have otherwise been following this whole matter).

I know I eagerly opened this thread thinking it might contain something I didn´t already know. But thanks anyway Sculptari for taking the time to post it.


YucaLandia


May 7, 2012, 9:26 AM

Post #18 of 48 (5997 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Excellent point !

I misread the previous posts, and mistakenly thought they were talking about citizenship requirements - my bad.
I've been researching the details on becoming a Mexican citizen, so:
" ... man sees what he wants to see, and disregards the rest. "
Too funny,
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


Sculptari

May 7, 2012, 11:38 AM

Post #19 of 48 (5963 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Immigration Changes May 2012

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I believe in Mexico they are not allowed to fail your citizenship based on the lack of Spanish language. I thought this was interesting. Probably a very small percentage of Mexicans, born and indigenous to Mexico, are fluent only in their native language. I don't know how they manage to achieve any education - but it is still a reality. This was a problem in the U.S. as well - many of the migrant workers are from Oaxaca, and many were unable to make use of Spanish language services and resources in the U.S.A.

http://journalism.berkeley.edu/ngno/reports/language/Hierarchy.html


(This post was edited by Sculptari on May 7, 2012, 11:43 AM)


newbie

May 7, 2012, 11:47 AM

Post #20 of 48 (5958 views)

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Rolly


May 7, 2012, 11:57 AM

Post #21 of 48 (5953 views)

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Re: [Garry Ladouce] Immigration Changes May 2012

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The only bad thing will be paying a fine for being late renewing.
Only your INM office can tell you how much you will have to pay because the fine is sometimes negotiable.

Rolly Pirate


GringoCArlos

May 7, 2012, 12:37 PM

Post #22 of 48 (5929 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Immigration Changes May 2012

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I wouldn't worry about the folks at INM being ogres with you - just explain your situation and they will fix it.

When you go to renew your FM-3 after it has expired, there will probably be a fine. 3 years ago, my previous employer dragged their feet telling me that they weren't planning on renewing my visa. A few days before my visa expired they informed me that I no longer had a job and that they weren't renewing my visa. Once I had gathered up all of the required documents, I went in for the renewal/change of visa about a week after the visa expired, and the fine was about 3000 pesos, plus the renewal /change fees.

Unless they have changed the procedure for late renewals in the past three years, the local INM office will send your renewal documents to MX City instead of processing it locally. It might take the MX City INM office 3 months or more to do the renewal this time (seems like they do it when they get around to it when you're late).

They also do not permit you or give you permission to leave Mexico during this process - because you are late renewing. Should you exit for any reason, you will have to start all over with a brand new first-time visa. They make it a real pain in the rear.


(This post was edited by GringoCArlos on May 7, 2012, 12:40 PM)


newbie

May 7, 2012, 1:01 PM

Post #23 of 48 (5918 views)

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Anonimo

May 7, 2012, 3:16 PM

Post #24 of 48 (5886 views)

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Re: [Garry Ladouce] Immigration Changes May 2012

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If you have to leave Mexico during the period when your visa is in the renewal process, you can apply for a permiso de salir y regresar. (Or words to that effect.) There's a small fee.

Saludos,
Anonimo


John Shrall

May 9, 2012, 6:49 AM

Post #25 of 48 (5928 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] Immigration Changes May 2012

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Quote
3. Residente Permanente: Inmigrado. You cannot renew an
FM-2 or “inmigrante” visa after the fourth annual renewal.
You must apply for “inmigrado” status (which is permanent
residency) 6 months before the visa expires, or you will go back
to a different visa. “Inmigrado” is like a “green card” in the U.S.

It was my understanding that one could not apply for inmigrado status or what would now be called permanente until the day after what would have been the 5th FM2 renewal. In my case, my current inmigrante card expires November 6 2012 and having been renewed 4 times I would be able to apply for inmigrado status on November 7 or any time in the next 6 months following expiration. If the window opens 6 months prior to expiration I can begin the application process now. If not I must wait until November and follow whatever rules are in place at that time for permanent residency. Which way is it?
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