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Rolly


Apr 21, 2012, 1:53 PM

Post #1 of 22 (4513 views)

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Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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http://www.nytimes.com/...html?_r=1&emc=na
This is a humdinger!

Rolly Pirate


(This post was edited by Rolly on Apr 21, 2012, 1:55 PM)



robt65

Apr 21, 2012, 6:25 PM

Post #2 of 22 (4448 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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Yeah Rolly, . . . . . . . I read that article . . . . . . short and to the point! I loved one of the last lines about the Mexican Wal Mart Attorney . . . . . . Why am I not surprised !?!?!?!?!?!?! (smiling)

robt65



stevebrtx

Apr 21, 2012, 6:44 PM

Post #3 of 22 (4444 views)

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Re: [robt65] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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Ha, really? Corruption in MX? - I'm totally shocked, or not?
http://www.chapalaweather.net


chinagringo


Apr 21, 2012, 7:23 PM

Post #4 of 22 (4429 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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Don't forget that they can be prosecuted under US anti-corruption laws and I hope they stick it to them!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



robt65

Apr 21, 2012, 8:15 PM

Post #5 of 22 (4416 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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You're right Neil, they can be prosecuted, they should be prosecuted . . . . . . . . . but they won't be prosecuted. Can you just imagine the back lash both in Mexico as well as the Latino community NOB when they wind up putting 200,000 persons out of work in Mexico. . . . . . . . . I believe it they are to be prosecuted, and they lost, which they would, they would be forced to close their stores and that would put a lot of folks out of work. As much as I agree, I just can’t see it happening. Just my two pesos worth.
Robt65


fordmexico

Apr 21, 2012, 8:50 PM

Post #6 of 22 (4411 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) is mentioned prominently in the New York Times article. The article fails to mention that the FCPA does allow for "facilitating payments". From the Department of Justice's Lay Persons Guide to the FCPA,

"The FCPA contains an explicit exception to the bribery prohibition for "facilitating payments"for "routine governmental action" and provides affirmative defenses which can be used to defend against alleged violations of the FCPA.

FACILITATING PAYMENTS FOR ROUTINE GOVERNMENTAL ACTIONS
There is an exception to the anti-bribery prohibition for payments to facilitate or expedite performance of a "routine governmental action." The statute lists the following examples:obtaining permits, licenses, or other official documents; processing governmental papers, such as visas and work orders; providing police protection, mail pick-up and delivery; providing phone service, power and water supply, loading and unloading cargo, or protecting perishable products; and scheduling inspections associated with contract performance or transit of goods
across country. Actions "similar" to these are also covered by this exception. If you have a question about whether a payment falls within the exception, you should consult with counsel. You should also consider whether to utilize the Justice Department's Foreign Corrupt Practices Opinion
Procedure, described below on p. 10."

The FCPA also allows for an affirmative defense in which a claim is made that the actions undertaken are allowed in that country.

Surely the DOJ will investigate Walmart's action as a result of the article. Whether it will take criminal or civil action against Walmart is yet to be seen.

Another question is whether or not the Walmart board of directors will take action against those senior managers who were clearly in violation of Walmart's own policies.


richmx2


Apr 22, 2012, 12:42 AM

Post #7 of 22 (4390 views)

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Re: [robt65] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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Of course, how many were put out of work, and how many middle-class shop owners lost their patrimony, as a result of "low prices... always"?

I imagine there will be calls for prosecution of those that received bribes (and those that offered them), especially from office holders of the parties that weren't in power during 2002-2005, and where WalMart was given building permits, despite strong local opposition... or, as in Teotihuacan, national opposition.

The political fallout is gonna be fun to watch. Make popcorn.


http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

(This post was edited by richmx2 on Apr 22, 2012, 12:47 AM)


Moisheh

Apr 22, 2012, 5:59 AM

Post #8 of 22 (4369 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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I am not shocked. No large business can exist in Mexico without corruption! PERIOD! I remember just before NAFTA when Bombardier was trying to get the contract for building new subway cars. They had one competitor. A European company (either Spanish or Italian). Bombardier took the high road and refused to pay bribes. An unusual move for a company from Quebec where corruption is rampant. To help seal the deal they bought the existing Mexican rail car builder. That company hadn't made one peso of profit for years and had serious union problems. The equipment and designs were 50 years old! BUT the contract went to the European company even though Bombardier had a lower and better bid! Bom bardier called foul and the Canadian Gov. became involved. Lots of heated words were exchanged between Mexico and Canada. It was serious.I doubt any of us realize how much corruption exists in every facet of Mexican life. The Wal Mart incident stands out because they are so huge and so So American. I would bet that other supermarket chains also pay bribes. It is my understanding that American companies have their lawyers pay the bribes and the law firm bills this as some sort of expense.

Moisheh


happyjack

Apr 22, 2012, 6:51 AM

Post #9 of 22 (4359 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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 There will be not political fall out because it is business as usual and no REAL laws were broken. This is for the saps in the USA who besides WalMart hate Bill Gates, Microsoft, Carlos Slim, and all the other ultra rich.
Mexicans and Mexico really are not going to give a crap. Mexico and Mexicans love WalMart, Bodega, Sam´s Club, El Porton, Vips and all the other Wal Mart stores because they offer a shopping and eating experiance that is not always the least expensive but at least enjoyable. Well lit stores with products that are priced in plain sight, clean and guess what...even a place for the Mexican Middle class to PARK their cars.
Sorry you can not buy one baby diaper for 25% of the cost of a 12 pack of diapers, or 2 sewing needles for 1 peso where 100 cost 10 pesos or 1 roll of toilet paper for 2/3 the cost of a 4 pack of toilet paper, at WalMart. We will save that for the local stores who have been doing that for decades.


Altahabana


Apr 22, 2012, 7:48 AM

Post #10 of 22 (4345 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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Payments to facilitate routine government action is a defense, but the article suggests that there was much more involved in this case. My understanding is that the FCPA prohibits the type of bribery that causes officials to misuse their discretionary authority. More plainly it prohibits payments that are intended to cause an official to do or not do something they have the power to either do or not do. The defense you referenced does not criminalize smaller payments intended to make something that has already been decided happen more quickly.


YucaLandia


Apr 22, 2012, 8:18 AM

Post #11 of 22 (4328 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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I'm a bit surprised by all the bluster- particularly considering the average age of Mexconnect posters. When the average US Senator solicits $8 million USD per election win from lobbyists and "key supporters", it's clear that money greases the wheels of politics and government on both sides of the border. Lots of things happen in government when the money flows. Look at the millions that Senators and Congressmen took with them as they left office. Lousy, but so very common - and so very difficult to control.

Back in the good old days of the 1960's when things were "much cleaner" under the Kennedys - a friend of mine who was the accountant for a small oil company in California had to write $50,000 a month in checks to their V.P. stationed in Washington DC, to pay for his "poker losses" to the Kennedy Administration, Senators, and Congressmen.
Different day, different decade, S.O.S. (Same old Stuff)

During the Johnson Administration, the going price for "the assistance" of just a secretary to an important US Senator was $10,000 in a paper sack. According to the NY Times, Walmart spent $16 million total on all the pay-offs, which is the price of electing just 2 US Senators. a bargain?
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Apr 22, 2012, 11:05 AM)


richmx2


Apr 22, 2012, 3:00 PM

Post #12 of 22 (4275 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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I don't say I was shocked, merely that there will be political fallout. You already have SHCP claiming they've started an investigation. Politicians anywhere on the planet are going to make hay of any opposition party pols that are caught up in this (and I expect this administration is gonna go after PRI guys first) and if the opposition pols (especially on the left) don't put pressure on the administration, they wouldn't be human.

In a country where the intelligencia and academics define the political agenda more than most countries (where else would a religious poet — Javier Sicilia — be a significant player in presidential politics?), historical analogies and cultural beliefs are going to be discussed... at great length. As it is, the money involved isn't all that much: legal bribery (aka "campaign contributions") in your average U.S. large state election is many times more than what is said to be spent here on all bribes in Mexico in any given year.

Will it affect the coming election? I don't know.

Is it worth paying attention to? Absolutely.

Will it be raised as an issue? Hell, yeah!


http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com

(This post was edited by richmx2 on Apr 22, 2012, 3:07 PM)


Moisheh

Apr 23, 2012, 3:16 AM

Post #13 of 22 (4201 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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CNBC is saying that this could cost WalMart BILLIONS in fines!

Moisheh


DavidHF

Apr 23, 2012, 5:57 AM

Post #14 of 22 (4186 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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This isn't about Mexico or Mexican laws. It's about the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. I expect the fine to be huge and no one to go to jail.


richmx2


Apr 23, 2012, 10:21 AM

Post #15 of 22 (4149 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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There's gonna be pressure on the Mexican administration to look into the bribes here, and yeah, as a corporation, WalMart might be subject to fines in the U.S., but here, the individuals who received bribes (and who paid them) can be jailed... and I expect there will be sacrificial victims very shortly.


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joaquinx


Apr 23, 2012, 11:04 AM

Post #16 of 22 (4140 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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In Reply To
CNBC is saying that this could cost WalMart BILLIONS in fines!


More so in the drop in the stock price. My, my, my, but the stock options won't be worth as much.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


richmx2


Apr 23, 2012, 8:13 PM

Post #17 of 22 (4074 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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So, if I understand this right, WalMart committed crimes in Mexico, and the U.S. government wants them to pay fines in the United States to resolve the issue. I can see where there are going to be some very angry Mexicans as a result.


http://mexfiles.net
http://editorialmazatlan.com


DavidHF

Apr 24, 2012, 8:58 AM

Post #18 of 22 (4023 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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In Reply To
"So, if I understand this right, WalMart committed crimes in Mexico, and the U.S. government wants them to pay fines in the United States to resolve the issue. I can see where there are going to be some very angry Mexicans as a result." ____________________________________________________________Walmart violated US law, hence charges and possible fines and jail terms in the US. It remainst to be seen if they will be similarly charged in Mexico.



(This post was edited by DavidHF on Apr 24, 2012, 9:03 AM)


cbviajero

Apr 24, 2012, 9:11 AM

Post #19 of 22 (4012 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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So, if I understand this right, WalMart committed crimes in Mexico, and the U.S. government wants them to pay fines in the United States to resolve the issue. I can see where there are going to be some very angry Mexicans as a result.

Apparently not,the mex guv says they will not be investigating.


Axixic


Apr 24, 2012, 9:33 AM

Post #20 of 22 (4005 views)

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Re: [fordmexico] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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The story is not about corruption in Mexico but that Wal-Mart is in a heap of trouble for violating the FCPA.

If a 100% Mexican company paid bribes in Mexico, it wouldn't make the U.S. news. It's that Wal-Mart USA is dragged into this by it's Mexican namesake and tried to cover it up.


joaquinx


Apr 24, 2012, 9:45 AM

Post #21 of 22 (4001 views)

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Re: Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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I read somewhere that foreign companies in Mexico budget at least 5% of the investment for bribes. I'll try and find the link for this.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.


richmx2


Apr 24, 2012, 1:09 PM

Post #22 of 22 (3964 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] Wal-Mart bribed its way across México -- New York Times exposé

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The thing that bothers me is that U.S. media is suggesting gestoría is bribery, and I wouldn't be surprised if five percent was budgeted for gestoría -- which I suppose could include bribery, although it more often involves just getting things accomplished. A lot of what a "gestor" does is what would be done by a U.S. company by lobbyists, and consultants and the legal department. My job title being "Gestor de proyectos" -- which does not mean I'm chief briber, but only that I spend a hell of a lot of time finding our service providers and suppliers, as well as lobbying for our company within its market niche. Being a publishing biz, this means more things like contacting authors, convincing them to sign contracts, getting them contracts, working with printers and distributors and advertisers and physically going to various government and corporate offices to resolve issues. That ain't bribery.

WalMart laundered their bribes through payments to gestors, which is an entirely different matter.


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http://editorialmazatlan.com
 
 
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