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Poncho32

Mar 10, 2012, 4:56 PM

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On CNN today they are stating 160+ bodies found in Southern Mexico I have checked around Mex Connect and border land beat and can not find any recent news in regards to the above ?

Dmathe3

Mar 10, 2012, 5:03 PM

Post #2 of 26 (2093 views)

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http://www.informador.com.mx/...cueva-de-chiapas.htm

chinagringo

Mar 10, 2012, 5:05 PM

Post #3 of 26 (2092 views)

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I believe what you are referring to is the story out of Chiapas:

http://www.usatoday.com/...ve-bodies/53463576/1

Please take note of the speculation that these may be from 50 years ago.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Poncho32

Mar 10, 2012, 6:04 PM

Post #4 of 26 (2071 views)

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I am sorry but I don't read Spanish and by the looks of the photos they could be remains from 50 years ago but until a DNA is performed it will not be known.
Thanks for the reply.

chinagringo

Mar 10, 2012, 6:16 PM

Post #5 of 26 (2063 views)

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If you are referring to the link in the other post, this may help but I will qualify that it is a Google translation that are often not all that accurate:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/...3zVlGOVrKiqjsMK8Mj1A
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

mazbook1

Mar 10, 2012, 7:36 PM

Post #6 of 26 (2033 views)

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I see Google translates municipio as "town", something not correct for México. It should have been correctly translated "county", as a Rancho with a cave would hardly be located in a "town".

chinagringo

Mar 10, 2012, 8:06 PM

Post #7 of 26 (2024 views)

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mazbook1:

I admit to being Spanish challenged and have to resort to Google translate or another such program in an attempt to get a grasp of what a Mexican media report is communicating. In view of the fact that I admitted to it's limitations, I guess that I have a grasp that they are often not 100% accurate in the translations?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

mazbook1

Mar 10, 2012, 10:57 PM

Post #8 of 26 (2005 views)

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Sorry, Neil, I really meant to go ahead and say that overall it was one of the best machine translations for that long of an article that I had seen for a long time. Google Translate just keeps getting better and better, as it uses quite a different algorithm than other machine translation programs.

I reported their incorrect translation of "municipio" for México, so maybe sometime in the future even that will be corrected.

When I have to get a Google translation for some reason, I try to also read the Spanish version, so that I can catch things like that before I write something about it, but I know that many folks don't have that ability (and I only do for pretty straightforward—often legal stuff—articles). Typical Mexican journalists' newspaper article often stump both Google AND me! Then I have to put the Google English version side by side with the original Spanish version and HOPE I can then make some sense out of it!

tonyburton

Mar 11, 2012, 9:43 AM

Post #9 of 26 (1928 views)

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The precise meaning/translation of municipio depends on context.

Collins dictionary offers a simple four-way choice that works 99.9% of the time:

Municipio (= distrito) - municipality
(= población) town
(= ayuntamiento) - town council, local council
(= edificio) - town hall

mazbook1

Mar 11, 2012, 10:02 AM

Post #10 of 26 (1920 views)

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Tony, I thought we had agreed to disagree. Municipio, in the exact Mexican legal sense, is the exact equivalent of, at least for the western United States, "county". There really can be no argument over this! Those translations you quote are European translations and have nothing whatsoever to do with México.

I would be happy to discuss this further with you, off forum please.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Mar 11, 2012, 10:05 AM)

AlanMexicali

Mar 11, 2012, 10:06 AM

Post #11 of 26 (1914 views)

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In Reply To

"The precise meaning/translation of municipio depends on context.

Collins dictionary offers a simple four-way choice that works 99.9% of the time:

Municipio (= distrito) - municipality
(= población) town
(= ayuntamiento) - town council, local council
(= edificio) - town hall "

I still don't understand if there is a county type political district similar to the US or what it is called in Spanish or if every state has it's own political division system. I understand some states call different areas "Zona" so and so but is that a political division. Do these have governing districts connected to the state gov't. or not? Are there localized "zona" elections for delegates involved within the state or is it all one big state gov't. with representatives from different districts and they work for the whole state and just represent a non political area that they are from?

(This post was edited by AlanMexicali on Mar 11, 2012, 10:13 AM)

tonyburton

Mar 11, 2012, 10:14 AM

Post #12 of 26 (1907 views)

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We ARE going to agree to disagree, since "county" differs in meaning in different parts of the English-speaking world, and even Simon and Schuster's International Dictionary (published in US and designed specifically for Latin American Spanish) offers the following translations for municipio:

1. (Roman history) municipium municipality
2 municiipality (community under municipal corporation)
3 town council, municipal corporation
4 town hall
5 municipal boundary

That said, I do not intend to take part in any further discussion of this semantic dispute.

mazbook1

Mar 11, 2012, 10:45 AM

Post #13 of 26 (1881 views)

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Alan, ALL of the Mexican states have the political divisions set by Federal law. It is something like this: Country >> state >> municipio.

States with lots of small-area municipios often, by state law, group contiguous, similar municipios into zonas. Since I don't live in one of these states, I haven't really studied the political implications of this grouping in the states that do it. Zonas appear to fall between the state and the municipio, e.g., >> state >> zona >> municipio, but whether it is a true political (elected governing body) division or just a convenient grouping making the governance of those areas easier for the state, I admit I don't know.

States with large-area municipios often, by state law, further sub-divide them into smaller units, each of which has a single village or town within the boundaries, e.g., >>state >> municipio >> sindicatura. These are called by various names, e.g., here in Sinaloa they are called sindicaturas, which are approximately the equivalent to the western U.S. "township". These sindicaturas elect one sindico, who then represents their interests in front of the governing body of the municipio, but who has no official political power above that level.

I know that other Mexican states with large-area municipios do something similar by state law but don't necessarily call those lesser sub-divisions sindicaturas, but it has been quite a while since I researched this, and now I discover that I have forgotten the other Mexican-Spanish names that they are called by.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Mar 11, 2012, 11:09 AM)

mazbook1

Mar 11, 2012, 10:53 AM

Post #14 of 26 (1874 views)

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Tony, that's just fine with me. You can, as you seem to prefer, live with your dictionary translations of municipio, but I will continue to live with the Mexican legal definition that is the reality here in la Republica. México has NO incorporated, self-governing villages, towns, municipalities or cities in the sense of the English-speaking world's understanding of those words.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Mar 11, 2012, 11:00 AM)

AlanMexicali

Mar 11, 2012, 11:02 AM

Post #15 of 26 (1865 views)

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Thanks for the info. I have seen signs on the roads driving around that indicate the town has an Office of Distrito Municipio de so and so and even see a building occasionally that is marked with a similar wording and always thought it was the Town Hall. So "municipal" in Spanish is a self governing city or town only, I assume, not to be confused with "municipio".

mazbook1

Mar 11, 2012, 11:08 AM

Post #16 of 26 (1860 views)

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You're absolutely correct. I would change your statement just a little bit, "…not to be confused with a Mexican "municipio"."

I have no idea how a municipio is seen in Spanish speaking countries other than México, but obviously it is quite different than here in México.

The actual "town hall" here in México is usually called either the Palacio del municipio or la Presidencía. It is normally located on the zócalo – central plaza – of the "county seat" – called the cabecera municipal in México – in the largest named urban area of the municipio, usually, but not always, having the same name as the municipio.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Mar 11, 2012, 11:36 AM)

Bennie García

Mar 11, 2012, 11:41 AM

Post #17 of 26 (1836 views)

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In Reply To

So "municipal" in Spanish is a self governing city or town only, I assume, not to be confused with "municipio".

In Reply To

You're absolutely correct. I would change your statement just a little bit, "…not to be confused with a Mexican "municipio"."

Municipal is an adjective, not a noun like municipio which is a political division. Municipal is used to describe something pertaining to the municipio like:

el presidente municipal, la cabecera municipal, etc

It doesn't mean "city or town"

(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 11, 2012, 11:42 AM)

mazbook1

Mar 11, 2012, 1:07 PM

Post #18 of 26 (1800 views)

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Of course, as usual, you are correct Bennie, but I don't often post corrections to folk's grammar (at least I try to NEVER do so).

chinagringo

Mar 11, 2012, 1:19 PM

Post #19 of 26 (1794 views)

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Back to the original topic and this time no need for a translated article that causes another discussion. Originally thought to be 50 years old, this article indicates that a more accurate age is 1300 years old:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...ericas/#.T10Gf2VdmnI
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Poncho32

Mar 11, 2012, 1:32 PM

Post #20 of 26 (1786 views)

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With the fast and reclasness of the news media these days it takes time to get to the truth of the matter.
Thank you for your diligence in this matter.

richmx2

Mar 11, 2012, 1:43 PM

Post #21 of 26 (1780 views)

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All the talk about municipios is quite interesting, but I don't think they were around when these bodies were buried sometime between 700 and 1200 A.D.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Poncho32

Mar 11, 2012, 2:23 PM

Post #22 of 26 (1763 views)

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Your missing the point here .

This whole thing started when I ask the question of weather anyone had any follow up on the CNN statement of 167 bodies found in Southern Mexico.

Then the answers started flowing in read all of the above .

Then I answered with what I hoped was the final on this subject with (With the fast and reclasness of the news media these days it takes time to get to the truth of the matter.
Thank you for your diligence in this matter.)

Have a nice day, this matter should now be closed.

La Isla

Mar 11, 2012, 4:14 PM

Post #23 of 26 (1728 views)

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Then I answered with what I hoped was the final on this subject with (With the fast and reclasness of the news media

Could someone explain what "reclasness" means?

Goyo

Mar 11, 2012, 4:20 PM

Post #24 of 26 (1725 views)

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jajaja the semantic war is pretty funny. most people in conversation or written context understand the terms and get on with their lives. mexicans often speak in shortened sentences/phrases, get to the point and, andele pues.

Poncho32

Mar 11, 2012, 4:27 PM

Post #25 of 26 (1723 views)

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In the dictionary recklessness means , lacking caution,hasty,thoughtless,I know I did not spell it right the first time ,now I hope this closes this issue.

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