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Bennie García

Mar 12, 2012, 4:57 PM

Post #26 of 48 (3829 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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Chapala Payaso is right. If you want to see a drug law system that works you have only to look to Singapore. They have a zero tolerance policy backed up by severe prison terms for possesion and death by hanging for importing. It works.


Actually possession over certain amounts gets you executed also. If people are so against drug use that they prefer a police state in order to enforce the law then I hope they reap what they sow. Alcohol should be included, it would cut deaths by drunk drivers down to nothing. And while we're on the morality bandwagon how about prostitution while too, janes, johns, pimps, doesn't matter. Make a big dent in STD levels. One undeniable positive is Rush Limbaugh wouldn't still be polluting the airwaves. He'd have had his fat red neck stretched years ago.


DavidHF

Mar 12, 2012, 7:04 PM

Post #27 of 48 (3810 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Guadalajara Narco

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I simply said that the system in Singapore works. I did not and would not advocate it for other morality crimes.


Bennie García

Mar 12, 2012, 8:58 PM

Post #28 of 48 (3797 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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I simply said that the system in Singapore works. I did not and would not advocate it for other morality crimes.


For advocates of harsh penalties as the mechanism to halt drug abuse take a look at these reports from Singapore and Malaysia.

http://www.talkingdrugs.org/...in-drug-user-arrests

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/...-in-singapore/472143

http://www.apaic.org/...d=130&Itemid=138

And in the meantime oppressive governments will continue to violate basic human rights by incarcerating or murdering people for what should be viewed as a health issue and not a criminal issue.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 12, 2012, 9:01 PM)


Chapala Payaso

Mar 12, 2012, 10:11 PM

Post #29 of 48 (3785 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Guadalajara Narco

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A health issue? Smugling drugs? Turf wars? Innocent bystanders being killed? It is unfortunate that the issues are now viewed with such emotion and passion that a reasoned dialogue is no longer possible locally. Hateful name calling has no place in civil discourse nor in debate. Fear has turned to anger and the strategy of changing the focus is in play. No more for me.


Bennie García

Mar 13, 2012, 9:20 AM

Post #30 of 48 (3744 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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A health issue? Smugling drugs? Turf wars? Innocent bystanders being killed? It is unfortunate that the issues are now viewed with such emotion and passion that a reasoned dialogue is no longer possible locally. Hateful name calling has no place in civil discourse nor in debate. Fear has turned to anger and the strategy of changing the focus is in play. No more for me.


Learn to read. I never mentioned smuggling, I was talking about drug usage. And that is a health issue as proven by alcoholism or prescription drug addiction being treated as such.

Smuggling and the violence that entails are criminal acts that are the direct result of prohibition.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 13, 2012, 9:22 AM)


DavidHF

Mar 13, 2012, 12:32 PM

Post #31 of 48 (3710 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Guadalajara Narco

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No system is perfect. Look at the actual numbers of arrests, shown only in the 2nd link, and you'll see that they are very small. As a % of the population they are miniscule compared to almost any other country. BTW, the third link doesn't even mention Singapore. What alternative system would you propose that would achieve the level of sucess that Singapore has?


cbviajero

Mar 13, 2012, 1:45 PM

Post #32 of 48 (3694 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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Singapore you can't even chew gum there it's against the law,no gracias I'll take chaotic Mexico over authoritarian Singapore anyday,that said their chinese food puts Mexico's to shame.
Chris


Chapala Payaso

Mar 13, 2012, 1:50 PM

Post #33 of 48 (3694 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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David: Yes, it does seem that a harsh approach works better than the namby pamby ones. Until society at large determines that they want the problem to cease, or at least greatly dimininish, the feel gooders will continue to try to understand the miseries in the users' lives that cause them to want to escape life and feel good in the process. I personally don't care if they use themselves to death so long as it and the aftermath don't come of of my pocket. These people used to be labeled as inadequate personalities. Garcia is so angry that it is useless to discuss these issues with him because of his irrationality. As was once said, nothing so much ruins a good debate as arguing.


Bennie García

Mar 13, 2012, 2:25 PM

Post #34 of 48 (3688 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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No system is perfect. Look at the actual numbers of arrests, shown only in the 2nd link, and you'll see that they are very small. As a % of the population they are miniscule compared to almost any other country. BTW, the third link doesn't even mention Singapore. What alternative system would you propose that would achieve the level of sucess that Singapore has?


The numbers cited are solely for heroin arrests.

The third link mentions Malaysia, which I mentioned in my post, and has laws very similar to Singapore's. In almost all incidences, drug usage is increasing in spite of the draconian laws.


Reefhound


Mar 13, 2012, 3:13 PM

Post #35 of 48 (3674 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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David: Yes, it does seem that a harsh approach works better than the namby pamby ones. Until society at large determines that they want the problem to cease, or at least greatly dimininish, the feel gooders will continue to try to understand the miseries in the users' lives that cause them to want to escape life and feel good in the process. I personally don't care if they use themselves to death so long as it and the aftermath don't come of of my pocket. These people used to be labeled as inadequate personalities. Garcia is so angry that it is useless to discuss these issues with him because of his irrationality. As was once said, nothing so much ruins a good debate as arguing.


Irrationality? Pot. Kettle. Black.

You weren't just calling for Singaporan style strictness. Even they hold a trial. You said anyone caught with the stuff should be executed "on the spot". And you didn't stop there but added "assassinate their family members" and "bulldoze their homes". And you expect a reasonable discussion of that? Talk about irrationality.

But hey, would that be enough? Why not just firebomb their neighborhoods? That will teach people not to look the other way. And if that doesn't work then we can just nuke their hometowns.


(This post was edited by Reefhound on Mar 13, 2012, 3:15 PM)


Bennie García

Mar 13, 2012, 3:19 PM

Post #36 of 48 (3671 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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David: Yes, it does seem that a harsh approach works better than the namby pamby ones. Until society at large determines that they want the problem to cease, or at least greatly dimininish, the feel gooders will continue to try to understand the miseries in the users' lives that cause them to want to escape life and feel good in the process. I personally don't care if they use themselves to death so long as it and the aftermath don't come of of my pocket. These people used to be labeled as inadequate personalities. Garcia is so angry that it is useless to discuss these issues with him because of his irrationality. As was once said, nothing so much ruins a good debate as arguing.


In the first place, I'm not angry. I haven't attacked any specific person for their views. Looks like maybe you are the one with the chip on your shoulder.

But it is obvious that discussing this matter with you in an intelligent manner is impossible. Drug usage is up in countries such as Singapore in spite of the harsh laws. Pretty simple to figure out that the laws are not working like some want to believe.


Chapala Payaso

Mar 13, 2012, 3:36 PM

Post #37 of 48 (3664 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Guadalajara Narco

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" I haven't attacked any specific person for their views."


" One undeniable positive is Rush Limbaugh wouldn't still be polluting the airwaves. He'd have had his fat red neck stretched years ago."


Bennie García

Mar 13, 2012, 3:39 PM

Post #38 of 48 (3661 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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" I haven't attacked any specific person for their views."


" One undeniable positive is Rush Limbaugh wouldn't still be polluting the airwaves. He'd have had his fat red neck stretched years ago."


jajajajajajaja what a joke! He's a poster here? He has presented an argument here? He was a drug addict. He'd have been executed according to the laws in some countries. Or at least a very long prison sentence.

Dude, you're too funny! Your user name fits you perfectly. Puras payasadas!!!


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Mar 13, 2012, 3:54 PM)


cbviajero

Mar 13, 2012, 3:46 PM

Post #39 of 48 (3660 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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" I haven't attacked any specific person for their views."


" One undeniable positive is Rush Limbaugh wouldn't still be polluting the airwaves. He'd have had his fat red neck stretched years ago."

Best arguement in favor of capital punishment I've heard in years.
Chris


Chapala Payaso

Mar 13, 2012, 4:07 PM

Post #40 of 48 (3654 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Guadalajara Narco

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OK, guys, let's get away from the personal attacks and return to the subject at hand. In order to do that one must decide what their desired end point is. Is it:

A) To eliminate or reduce the use of drugs, both illegal and prescribed?

B) To eliminate or reduce the violence associated with illicit suppliers?

C) All of the above.

D) None of the above.

E) Other which is ?

Along with your selection please share your proposed solution.


Bennie García

Mar 13, 2012, 4:18 PM

Post #41 of 48 (3649 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Guadalajara Narco

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Quote
Rush Limbaugh's defenders say he never would have been investigated for prescription fraud if he weren't a famous conservative commentator, and they're probably right. For one thing, it's unlikely The National Enquirer would have been interested in the pill popping habits of an average joe, or even an average millionaire.


Yet the talk radio titan's detractors also have a point when they complain that he got off with a slap on the wrist after obtaining thousands of painkillers under false pretenses, a result they find especially galling in light of his general support for the war on drugs and his specific support for incarcerating drug users. "Perhaps the only way for draconian drug laws to change," says Drug Policy Alliance Executive Director Ethan Nadelmann, "is for people like Limbaugh to join other nonviolent drug offenders behind bars."


One of those nonviolent drug offenders is Richard Paey, who faced allegations remarkably similar to those against Limbaugh. Both men suffered severe back pain for which they underwent unsuccessful surgery, and both were accused of fraudulently obtaining more narcotics than they really needed. But while Limbaugh remains a free man and will not even face criminal charges if he continues to attend drug treatment for the next 18 months (something he was planning to do anyway), Paey is serving a 25-year sentence in a Florida prison.



DavidHF

Mar 13, 2012, 5:04 PM

Post #42 of 48 (3639 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Guadalajara Narco

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Singapore you can't even chew gum there it's against the law,no gracias I'll take chaotic Mexico over authoritarian Singapore anyday,that said their chinese food puts Mexico's to shame.
Chris==================================================================================================Chris, It's not illegal to chew gum in Singapore, it's illegal to SELL gum. I love Singapore and have no problem with their system.David



(This post was edited by DavidHF on Mar 13, 2012, 5:11 PM)


Bennie García

Mar 13, 2012, 5:17 PM

Post #43 of 48 (3629 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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In Reply To
Singapore you can't even chew gum there it's against the law,no gracias I'll take chaotic Mexico over authoritarian Singapore anyday,that said their chinese food puts Mexico's to shame.
Chris==================================================================================================Chris, It's not illegal to chew gum in Singapore, it's illegal to SELL gum. I love Singapore and have no problem with their system.David



I visited Singapore at least 30 times over the years, had a Singapore Sling in the Raffles, spent lots of money on Orchard Road, saw the bennie boys on Buguis Street, shopped Clifford Pier etc. and it was the most boring city in the Far East. Besides all of the other fascist rules and regs I really loved the posters in the Post Office telling and showing where if a man's hair was over his collar, he would be waited on last. I'll even take Jakarta over Singapore and the first is a shit hole.


chinagringo


Mar 13, 2012, 6:20 PM

Post #44 of 48 (3603 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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I have to wonder how many of the people advocating for legalization have ever lived in a country where drugs are prevalent and even tacitly legal? And I am not referring to the Americas.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



cbviajero

Mar 13, 2012, 6:47 PM

Post #45 of 48 (3596 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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In Reply To
Singapore you can't even chew gum there it's against the law,no gracias I'll take chaotic Mexico over authoritarian Singapore anyday,that said their chinese food puts Mexico's to shame.
Chris==================================================================================================Chris, It's not illegal to chew gum in Singapore, it's illegal to SELL gum. I love Singapore and have no problem with their system.David


So what you gotta make your own gum?Btw I was'nt bothered in the least when that "junior"extranjero vandal got sentenced to a little caning.
Bennie 30 visits to Singapore,what were you an airline pilot or something?The closest I ever got to The Raffles was reading Maugham and Greene.
Chris


Vichil

Mar 13, 2012, 7:46 PM

Post #46 of 48 (3582 views)

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Re: [cbviajero] Guadalajara Narco

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Being married to the Dawg we had to go to Singapore to have a Singapore sling at Raffles, one of the worst drinks I ever had , not worth the trip and I have to agree Singapore is a boring city with an unbearable climate.


RickS


Mar 13, 2012, 8:41 PM

Post #47 of 48 (3565 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Guadalajara Narco

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(Not directed at you, Vichil)

Chewing gum or not in Singapore???
Where is a moderator with a lock when you really need one???


tashby


Mar 13, 2012, 9:54 PM

Post #48 of 48 (3552 views)

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Re: [RickS] Guadalajara Narco

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Chewing gum or not in Singapore???


Wish I could find a linkable image of the tree in Guadalajara with all the chewing gum stuck to it, but I can't. A simple google image search reveals many gum-tatooed trees in Mexico.

Hammer. Lock.
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