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prorader

Mar 9, 2012, 3:54 PM

Post #1 of 48 (4559 views)

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Guadalajara Narco

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It is reported on another BB that Guadalajara has been hit by Narco's, blocking highways to and from Chapala,

There is a US warning about going from Chapala to Guadalajara, Chapala police has put up roadblocks



Yacatecuhtli


Mar 9, 2012, 4:04 PM

Post #2 of 48 (4543 views)

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Re: [prorader] Guadalajara Narco

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There is more info in the Guadalajara sections

http://www.mexconnect.com/...;;page=unread#unread


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


bournemouth

Mar 9, 2012, 5:35 PM

Post #3 of 48 (4514 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Guadalajara Narco

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Returned from Guadalajara a couple of hours ago, passing the remains of two blocks with burned out trucks past the airport, on the way to Chapala. A police road block on west bound traffic near Chapalas Haciendas - a serious block - we felt a little edgy wondering if it really was police but it was.

Zapopoan seemed to be full of police vehicles of all branches, many not marked, moving around at high speed plus several helicopters. The radio station we were listening to said there had been 15 bloqueos, one as far south as Sayula/Ciudad Guzman and one around Atoyac on the Guadalajara/Colima road.

A nervous kind of day.


esperanza

Mar 9, 2012, 6:11 PM

Post #4 of 48 (4493 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] Guadalajara Narco

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The modus operandi is always for the narcos to block all access roads to/from whatever city they are blockading. If you look at the Google maps that have the fire and confrontation locations shown, you'll see that that is the case in GDL today as well. It was always the case in Morelia, too. To repeat Bennie García's link: http://maps.google.com.mx/...pn=0.108415,0.209255


http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









chinagringo


Mar 9, 2012, 6:29 PM

Post #5 of 48 (4486 views)

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Re: [prorader] Guadalajara Narco

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When virtually all of these events happened in the Greater Guadalajara Zone, why not make the post where it belongs? Contrary to the prevailing Gringo opinions, Lake Chapala isn't the center of the Mexico universe. Sure there was a roadblock outside of Chapala but it appears that this was precautionary to keep out the "bad boys".
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



RickS


Mar 9, 2012, 6:53 PM

Post #6 of 48 (4474 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Guadalajara Narco

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OK, I understand the blockading of roads leading in/out, but what is the 'real' action? Blockades make ti harder to 'respond', but what action are they doing in the mean time?


eyePad

Mar 10, 2012, 10:31 PM

Post #7 of 48 (4294 views)

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Re: [RickS] Guadalajara Narco

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This is really significant, really scary, and really sad.


Chapala Payaso

Mar 11, 2012, 7:37 PM

Post #8 of 48 (4193 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Guadalajara Narco

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Perhaps the only practical solution is to legalize and tax what is now illicit. That essentially was the solution for alcohol of prohibition fame. You cannot save everyone, especially when the attempt has such negative effects on society as a whole. As Spock of TV fame was prone to observe, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Let hgealth insurance carriers and employers decide how to handle the users.


DavidHF

Mar 11, 2012, 7:40 PM

Post #9 of 48 (4192 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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This isn't about substances that can be "legalized," it's about organized crime syndicates and all of the businesses they're in. Legalizing cannabis wouldn't make a dent.


Chapala Payaso

Mar 11, 2012, 8:31 PM

Post #10 of 48 (4178 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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OK, so they woud still have prostitution and other slave selling. But after that, what is left for them. I am not talking just about MJ when talking about legalization.


Rolly


Mar 11, 2012, 8:58 PM

Post #11 of 48 (4172 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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"...what is left for them..."
A lot of what they are doing now -- kidnapping for ransom, extortion, pirating CDs and DVDs, loan sharking, etc

Rolly Pirate


Reefhound


Mar 11, 2012, 8:59 PM

Post #12 of 48 (4167 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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In Reply To
OK, so they woud still have prostitution and other slave selling. But after that, what is left for them. I am not talking just about MJ when talking about legalization.


Kidnapping, extortion, theft, and piracy for starters. Perhaps we should legalize all that too.


Bennie García

Mar 11, 2012, 9:04 PM

Post #13 of 48 (4163 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Guadalajara Narco

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This isn't about substances that can be "legalized," it's about organized crime syndicates and all of the businesses they're in. Legalizing cannabis wouldn't make a dent.


Oh yes it would.


Bennie García

Mar 11, 2012, 9:08 PM

Post #14 of 48 (4162 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Guadalajara Narco

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In Reply To
OK, so they woud still have prostitution and other slave selling. But after that, what is left for them. I am not talking just about MJ when talking about legalization.


Kidnapping, extortion, theft, and piracy for starters. Perhaps we should legalize all that too.


Which probably doesn't amount to 10% of what illegal drugs generate. And besides, it is stupid to argue that drug users are victims in the same sense than the victims of the crimes you mention.


johninajijic

Mar 11, 2012, 11:15 PM

Post #15 of 48 (4145 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Guadalajara Narco

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In Reply To
This isn't about substances that can be "legalized," it's about organized crime syndicates and all of the businesses they're in. Legalizing cannabis wouldn't make a dent.


Oh yes it would.

Legalizing MJ would bring in taxes to both the US and Mexico and would definitely make a dent in the money flow. If they ever did legalize the other drugs, the cartels would be next to out of business. Druggies will get drugs legal or not and they'll keep on killing themselves.


Reefhound


Mar 12, 2012, 2:11 AM

Post #16 of 48 (4135 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] Guadalajara Narco

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
OK, so they woud still have prostitution and other slave selling. But after that, what is left for them. I am not talking just about MJ when talking about legalization.


Kidnapping, extortion, theft, and piracy for starters. Perhaps we should legalize all that too.


Which probably doesn't amount to 10% of what illegal drugs generate. And besides, it is stupid to argue that drug users are victims in the same sense than the victims of the crimes you mention.


Which is probably why nobody made that argument...

I never said it wouldn't make a dent or that the above activities equaled drug revenues, just countered the assertion that the cartels would have nothing left but prostitution.

But would it be more reasonable to assume that, if drugs were legalized, the cartels would throw up their hands and get honest jobs? Or that they would step up other activities to replace some of the lost revenue?


Reefhound


Mar 12, 2012, 2:15 AM

Post #17 of 48 (4134 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Guadalajara Narco

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And besides, what is *really* stupid is basing the "solution" on something (complete legalization of all drugs) that is simply NOT going to happen. Makes for some good ranting and raving, allows the elitists to feel smug, but doesn't actually move us closer to a solution.


Chapala Payaso

Mar 12, 2012, 8:18 AM

Post #18 of 48 (4081 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Guadalajara Narco

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Perhaps it would be wise not to make regulations you cannot enforce. It seems obvious to me that there really is not the will to put a stop to the drug trade given the namby pamby law enforcement. Why not declare Marshall Law on the drug sellers and traffickers? Caught with the stuff, executed on the spot. Assassinate their family members, bulldoze their homes, bring them out of the shadows into public scrutiny and ridicule. If drugs are important enough to prohibit but the will to enforce the laws with prejudice is lacking, the greatest danger is shifted from the culprits to innocent bystanders. The present half- hearted measures are no more effective than was prohibition. Just how important an issue is it? Years ago the trade was tamped down with these harsh methods. First, though, they shot the lawyers.


Reefhound


Mar 12, 2012, 9:45 AM

Post #19 of 48 (4049 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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You mean unenforceable regulations like laws against rape, robbery, and murder? Those crimes have been around since the dawn of man. Several thousand years of law enforcement have not succeeded in stamping them out. Shall we give up and legalize them too? Are we being namby pamby about enforcing laws against those crimes too because we don't execute suspects on the spot, kill their family members, and raze their houses?


Chapala Payaso

Mar 12, 2012, 9:58 AM

Post #20 of 48 (4043 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Guadalajara Narco

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Please try to stay focused on the topic which is how to deal with the drug problem. If you believe that the present methods of dealing with that are successful then stick with it. If not, then perhaps a diffferent approach is indicated.

I offered two approaches. One is to leagalize drugs of all sorts and allow society deal with the users. Personally I would deny them medical coverage for any drug related problem. Society is already doing drug screens on potential employees. Further approaches would come into play.

My second solution was to take off the gloves and take no prisoners.

If you would like to discuss other ills of society begin a string about that/those issues and I would be glad to share my not so humble opinion.


(This post was edited by Chapala Payaso on Mar 12, 2012, 10:00 AM)


Gringal

Mar 12, 2012, 10:05 AM

Post #21 of 48 (4039 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Guadalajara Narco

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Nevermind where this is happening at the moment. Let's shoot it out over the planet, since it's happening everywhere.......and start at the beginning.
Kid starts hanging with the less savory crowd, grows up to be major gangbanger, graduates to being involved with big time gangsters who engage in money making activities from extortion, kidnapping, murder for hire, prostitution and indeed, selling all the drugs the market can absorb. Does anyone seriously believe that this guy, now driving a fancy car, gold chains and the works on his body and with hot babes on his arm is going to see the light and go do some kind of "honest" work? I believe that once spoiled for the good life, the criminal element will just keep on chasing the money one way or the others. Legalization of pot making a difference? Don't think so.


Yacatecuhtli


Mar 12, 2012, 11:07 AM

Post #22 of 48 (4019 views)

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Guadalajara Narco

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Yet another thread HBR (Hijacked Beyond Recognition) .............


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


Reefhound


Mar 12, 2012, 11:55 AM

Post #23 of 48 (4007 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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The other ills of society were to demonstrate parallels and expose the fallacy in your second approach, namely that just because you don't deal with a problem by trampling civil rights and punishing innocents (their families) doesn't mean you are playing with kid's gloves. Taking the gloves off doesn't mean you execute first and ask questions later.

And your first approach is a pie-in-the-sky never-gonna-happen just-say-yes "solution". While we're dreaming, let's just abolish all laws and call on people to live in harmony as brothers and sisters.

Whether the present methods are "successful" is relative. Where would we be without those methods? Or with other methods? The only thing I can say is that they are not successful enough. Improvements definitely need to be made.


Chapala Payaso

Mar 12, 2012, 2:12 PM

Post #24 of 48 (3976 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Guadalajara Narco

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I offered two suggestions. You bah humbuged both. You acknowledged, "Improvements definitely need to be made." Such as?


DavidHF

Mar 12, 2012, 4:30 PM

Post #25 of 48 (3946 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] Guadalajara Narco

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Chapala Payaso is right. If you want to see a drug law system that works you have only to look to Singapore. They have a zero tolerance policy backed up by severe prison terms for possesion and death by hanging for importing. It works.
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