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barnowl

Jan 23, 2012, 11:20 AM

Post #1 of 76 (18382 views)

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This is too much.

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I've been reading MexConnect since 2006. The plan was to retire in Mexico. Normally, tourists/expats aren't targeted by narco trafficantes ... everything is fine, they say, if you stay in safe tourist zones. Yet, we hear about another incident; a Canadian women beaten unconsious in a 5 star resort in Mazatlan. I know, things can happen anywhere, I've travelled in unsafe countries. http://www.cbc.ca/...canadian-beaten.html


There was a sidebar to this CBC story and it doesn't inspire much confidence.

http://www.cbc.ca/...-a-walter-mckay.html

http://www.cbc.ca/...bodies-beach-rtr.jpg

why would authorities cover dead bodies with garbage bags (weighed down with rocks) and leave the scene?

There have been gang hits where I live (Vancouver area) and the scene is covered with yellow tape, cops, ambulance, coroner/medical office, media etc. The picture from Acapulco looks like a cold way to treat a dead person.



stevebrtx

Jan 23, 2012, 11:51 AM

Post #2 of 76 (18333 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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Too much? - well, each person has their level of regurgitation and yes, it's not dignified, but neither is being gunned down in public anywhere you go. There are a dozen small things, a hundred larger in daily life here that are simply examples of a different culture. Each day you strap on your patience and your tolerance and you have to judge by your standards, no one can tell you it's safe if you don't believe it.

The lady who has rented my casita the past 5 winters isn't returning next year, two other ladies I know didn't come back this year. Personally I haven't changed much of anything since I arrived 4.5 years ago. My neighbor who is not returning went to the beach today with a group of artists to spend a week on the beach painting. The other day she took a hacienda tour W of Guad, we intend to go to Leon in Feb for the day, I still drive to TX once a year like always and to and around Guadalajara all the time.

To be candid, and please don't take this personally or out of context, the fewer people that come down, the better it is for those of us resident. I've received a generous offer to reduce my rent to stay in this casa, so each must live their own life and not allow others to impose their fears, or their joys for that matter.


bournemouth

Jan 23, 2012, 12:19 PM

Post #3 of 76 (18317 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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Bodies are routinely left where they are found, to await the arrival of the Coronor's people. It's not what we are used to north of the border, but this is the way it is here and one has to accept it. In many years I've only seen that twice and both times it was people who had been run over.


richmx2


Jan 23, 2012, 12:23 PM

Post #4 of 76 (18314 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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Hard to say from the Noroeste report that this woman wasn't beaten by a fellow tourist (which is highly likely, given the difficulty of getting into the Riu if you aren't a guest). Not sure what the photos from Acapulco had to do with any of this... a corpse is a corpse, and would you rather Acapulco spent their money on equipment or on body bags just in case they have a mass murder? How is a body bag more dignified? Perhaps we should do like Houston did, and put funeral parlor advertising on them... Here's a little bit more on the way we view death in Latin America.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


barnowl

Jan 23, 2012, 12:44 PM

Post #5 of 76 (18306 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] This is too much.

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To be candid, and please don't take this personally or out of context, the fewer people that come down, the better it is for those of us resident. I've received a generous offer to reduce my rent to stay in this casa, so each must live their own life and not allow others to impose their fears, or their joys for that matter.


Thanks for that, steve. I agree. My post was more in disappointment ... I am saddened that Mexico probably won't be my final 'landing' spot. I'm an old lady and I sure was looking forward to being in such a beautiful country. That vibrancy of music, color, language, history ... life in Canada seems so grey and lifeless.

I'm just ticked. Nobody voted for a crazy drug war that's trashing the country. For sure.


stevebrtx

Jan 23, 2012, 12:59 PM

Post #6 of 76 (18303 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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Don't start me on sad, I can wring my hands with the best of them. It's changed significantly in the short time I've been here and yes, they're destroying a great country with nice folks who have a wonderfully rich heritage, but entire towns and swaths of Mexico are being destroyed and I can't imagine anyone who has lived here for a time disagreeing with the sadness of what is happening.


YucaLandia


Jan 23, 2012, 3:18 PM

Post #7 of 76 (18258 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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In Reply To
I've been reading MexConnect since 2006. The plan was to retire in Mexico. Normally, tourists/expats aren't targeted by narco trafficantes ... everything is fine, they say, if you stay in safe tourist zones. Yet, we hear about another incident; a Canadian women beaten unconsious in a 5 star resort in Mazatlan. I know, things can happen anywhere, I've travelled in unsafe countries. http://www.cbc.ca/...canadian-beaten.html

ag
---


Would it affect your plans if it was her Canadian significant-other who beat her?

If you still have interest in Mexico, you could consider relatively safe areas, like Yucatan, where the murder rates are 10X to 20X lower than Canada.

To keep perspective on how Canadians treat their spouses, official Canadian government statistics show:
"Rates of spousal violence by a current or previous partner in the 5 year period were 7% for women and 6% for men**... It was also found that female victims of spousal violence were three times more likely than male victims of spousal violence to fear for their life (34% versus 10%)" Family Violence in Canada

"Female seniors (in Canada are) victimized at a rate of 119 per 100,000 population and males at a rate of 184. ... Older women are more likely than their male counterparts to be victims of family violence. Close to four out of ten senior female victims were assaulted by a family member, ..." page 11 of the previous official government reference.

Family violence works out to 312 Canadians per 100,000 having to go to a family shelter every year, due to violence / abuse by Canadian men. and 34% of them "feared for their lives" .

There are reports of evidence that her significant other was responsible. Not all Canadians are docile and peace-loving ... again, sad....

Please realize that not all violence to Canadians in Mexico is caused by Mexicans.
Roughly 4 years ago the friends of a young Canadian fellow visiting Cancun reported that he and his friends started drinking at the airport, just after they got off the plane. Their drinking continued for 24 of the next 28 hours. The friends tried to put the young fellow "to bed" 3 different times, but as drunks are wont to do, he kept returning to the bar. After their last attempt to get him to "sleep it off", he came to and tried to stagger back to the bar, again, but this time he fell to his death from a 3 story walkway. The Canadian press reported his family's version that his injuries must have been caused by the Mexican Police. The same Canadian press ignored the friends' later reports of his binge drinking. ...again, sad....



**Think of a group of 30 of your fellow Canadians, look at each of them carefully and see if you can tell which two beat their spouses.

I offer these official govt. perspectives not to bash Canadians, but as a simple pointer to help keep things in perspective.
-
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 23, 2012, 3:25 PM)


careyeroslib

Jan 23, 2012, 3:37 PM

Post #8 of 76 (18239 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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I just stumbled upon reports of this today on another Forum. Hopefully someone from Mazátlan will or has already responded to this but I don´t say how anyone would think this one incident inspires one iota of fear in anyone.

A tragic isolated incident as far as I can see.

I´m Canadian too, and, as long as my husband is alive we´ll be spending a good amount of time in Canada, but should he pass away, I would stay in Mexico full time. Not because I don´t like Canada, but because I personally think there is more for me in Mexico. Am I afraid? Not really. Personally I think I would feel perfectly safe as a vulnerable little old lady (which I will be someday unfortunately) anywhere in Mexico, including in so-called drug areas. Btw, please don´t think I am making light of ANY of the situation in Mexico or to deny its existence. I´m not. But I personally feel comfortable here. When driving throughout Mexico we have occasionally stumbled into drug areas by mistake and everyone has been nice to us. We speak reasonable Spanish, we are polite, we respect their privacy and we don´t judge.

Anyway, sorry for the blah blah, but, to the OP, don´t give up on the idea of retiring in Mexico purely on the basis of this kind of report. Your comments about what you like about Mexico suggest your instincts have been right all along. Trust them, and do not be afraid.


richmx2


Jan 23, 2012, 4:18 PM

Post #9 of 76 (18231 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] This is too much.

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Don't get too cocky about the Yucatan, Steve. I'd read this thread from Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Mexico Branch. According to the original poster, a Canadian, his 21 year old daughter and 22 year old son were assaulted by a fellow Canadian at a Yucatan (ok, Peninsula, not state) resort. As I said, it appears the assault here in Mazatlan was by a fellow tourist.

Stranger on stranger violence is extremely rare (with the exception of hired thugs, but that usually involves business or political relationships, which foreign retirees are highly unlikely to be involved in) and when it does happen, it's usually in the course of a robbery. Gay bashings, usually against gay men, are about the only type of (relative) stranger on stranger violence against foreigners by Mexicans I've heard of outside of robberies. Happening at the Riu, where you can't just walk in, makes me think the attacker was an acquaintance of the victim. Or, was someone like Brian Rose, the alleged assailant at the Barcalo, a drunken lout who shouldn't be allowed to travel anywhere without a keeper. I hate to tell people this, but Canadians have a reputation in Mexico for loutish, drunken misbehavior. it usually takes the form of racist and aggressive behavior towards Mexicans (especially Mexican women), not their compatriots. Still....

Given the number of Canadians who visit Mazatlan, it is not surprising that one or two run into grief here every year... what is surprising is that it is so rare. Amusingly or bemusingly, Huffington Post ran an article recently on the most dangerous places in Mexico for tourists. Mazatlan made their list, but the only incident they could point to was a Canadian RESIDENT (not a tourist) who got hit in the foot by a ricocheting bullet at a supermarket not even frequented much by the "expat community" about two years ago. And he was very clear when he was interviewed that he had absolutely no intention of leaving town, let alone the country over such an unlikely accident.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


YucaLandia


Jan 23, 2012, 4:26 PM

Post #10 of 76 (18224 views)

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Re: [richmx2] This is too much.

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Don't get too cocky about the Yucatan, Steve. I'd read this thread from Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Mexico Branch. According to the original poster, a Canadian, his 21 year old daughter and 22 year old son were assaulted by a fellow Canadian at a Yucatan (ok, Peninsula, not state) resort. As I said, it appears the assault here in Mazatlan was by a fellow tourist.

Stranger on stranger violence is extremely rare (with the exception of hired thugs, but that usually involves business or political relationships, which foreign retirees are highly unlikely to be involved in) and when it does happen, it's usually in the course of a robbery. ...



I´m confused, you list a reference that cites Canadian on Canadian violence in a resort, which fits one version of what happened at Mazatlan. You also point out that the violence did not occur in Yucatan, which is the area for which I quoted official statistics.

Quintana Roo is not Yucatan, not legally, not culturally, not comparable in crime, not comparable in most respects.

All of which leaves me confused, because the facts you cite support the points I made.
steve
¿
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


richmx2


Jan 23, 2012, 4:50 PM

Post #11 of 76 (18215 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] This is too much.

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When people are told the Yucatan has low rates of violence, I may translate that as the State of Yuc, and I know you do, but I don't think most outsiders are that careful in their geography, and would think in terms of the peninsula. A slightly intentional misreading, but a handy platform for launching a targeted strike... if that's not too violent a metaphor.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


YucaLandia


Jan 23, 2012, 5:08 PM

Post #12 of 76 (18207 views)

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Re: [richmx2] This is too much.

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You've made an excellent point to help the OP. It´s important to actually know about the area you plan to visit or live. If you were to consider Yucatan: Yucatan State is not much like the resort areas of Quintana Roo, but both states share the rather large Yucatan peninsula with Campeche. Campeche and Yucatan are very peaceful and picturesque states, rich in culture and Mayan Ruins, but few resorts, with a lot of poor but very sweet people.

Another way that this swings back to the original post: The OP talks about "tourist zones" as if they are safe and fairly free of criminal activities, while recent history says that Mexico's tourist resort areas have been and continue to be integral parts of drug cartel criminal strategies.

The statistics and history say that there are some very safe areas in Mexico. These areas are often very nice to live in and retire to - or live for a few months to escape Canada's cold and snow - and they are typically NOT tourist resort areas.

To help the OP see some facts, check out this map to see what areas and municipalities have historically low rates of violence - especially those that have lower rates of violence and homicides than Canada: http://stanford.edu/~dkronick/mexico_crime/ : Murder Numbers and Murder Rates for Mexican Municipalities

If safety really is the OP's concern, pertinent facts may be helpful to allay the results of CBC's ongoing lurid and distorted reporting. Yes, some parts of Mexico have serious serious serious problems with violence - but these areas do not represent all of Mexico. Finally, both official and unofficial reports of violence and murders show that drug-free tourists and expats have not really been targeted by the cartels.
steve
-
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 23, 2012, 6:21 PM)


Judy in Ags


Jan 23, 2012, 7:20 PM

Post #13 of 76 (18141 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] This is too much.

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Am I reading the chart on death in Mexico correctly? The number is PER MONTH?????


YucaLandia


Jan 23, 2012, 7:45 PM

Post #14 of 76 (18125 views)

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Re: [Judy in Ags] This is too much.

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Almost all of the data shown are ANNUAL data:
The data in the Map of Mexico can be accessed / displayed in any one of 6 different ways, so, the kind of data depends on how you hover or click with your mouse. Only one specific type of click yields a plot/graph of monthly data.

If you click on the "Rate" button in the upper right corner:
~ the colors of each municipality change to reflect the overall ANNUAL rates for the most recent year; then
~ hovering over a municipality with your cursor causes a box to pop-up with the ANNUAL homicide rates for the most recent year; and
~ clicking on the municipality causes a plot of the MONTHLY homicide rates for the past 20 years to pop up.


If you click on the "Absolute" button in the upper right corner:
~ the colors of each municipality change to reflect the overall ANNUAL total homicides for the most recent year; then
~ hovering over a municipality with your cursor causes a box to pop-up with the ANNUAL total homicides for the most recent year; and
~ clicking on the municipality causes a plot of the MONTHLY homicide totals for the past 20 years to pop up.

So, tmonthly values are only shown when you actually click on a municipality, which causes a special white box to pop up with the monthly data plotted as little bars.

e.g. The municipality of Merida had 2 murders last year for 820,000 residents , and a rate of just 0.24 murders per 100,000 residents - making it between 10X and 20X lower than Canadian state annual values.

Cancun's municipality had a murder rate comparable to many US cities: 7.51 murders per 100,000 residents per year, while overall the State of Yucatan had a murder rate of just 0.05 homicides per 100,000 - making Yucatan much much safer than Canadian areas with nearly 4 million people.
steve
-
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 23, 2012, 8:02 PM)


fug

Jan 23, 2012, 10:44 PM

Post #15 of 76 (18082 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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Hi barnowl, Only read your post and none of the responses. It appears that you have made a decision. Mexico is simply no longer where you would feel comfortable. God bless you and move on with your life. I, for one, have no intention of trying to convince someone that is disinclined to move here, to move here. Best wishes, fug


Axixic


Jan 24, 2012, 2:14 AM

Post #16 of 76 (18073 views)

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Re: [barnowl] This is too much.

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why would authorities cover dead bodies with garbage bags (weighed down with rocks) and leave the scene?


Plastic contaminates the body less than other materials. I doubt the dead person cared much what covered him.

Mexico doesn't have all the resources of its Northern neighbors but I doubt the police wanted to show any disrespect.

If you expect a developing country like Mexico to always behave and have the resources of Canada or the U.S., then you should stay put.

If you expect no violence or suspicious deaths in Mexico, then you should stay in Canada where there is never any violence or suspicious deaths.

It wears me out that people want to move to Mexico because it is less expensive and the climate is better but they want everything to be exactly like it is in their home country which might have a higher murder rate of innocents than in Mexico. If you look only for the bad, no county will suit your needs.


yTABDGdW

Jan 24, 2012, 5:43 AM

Post #17 of 76 (18047 views)

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Re: [Axixic] This is too much.

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"...the results of CBC's ongoing lurid and distorted reporting."

There has been a concerted effort from Canada to smear Mexico at any chance possible to hurt the tourism industry ever since a Canadian couple had their throats slit in Cancun a few years back. Never mind that they were rumored to have mob ties. Well the Mexicans apparently didnt cooperate enough with the investigation as far as Canada was concerned. Ever since then it is obvious that Canada has been pushing any negative news related to Mexico and Canadian tourists to the front line. Its so obvious that its both scary and sickening. And Canadians are buying it hook, line and sinker. If youre Canadian YOU WILL DIE in Mexico. Hahaha! It does well to weed out all the ignorant,boring people though who dont bother to form their own opinion.


Axixic


Jan 24, 2012, 7:01 AM

Post #18 of 76 (18011 views)

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Re: [Memo] This is too much.

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More Canadians die in Mexico every year by falling off hotel balconies, yet Canada never tells Canadians the proper way to safely use a hotel balcony.

I guess Mexican hotel balconies are also more dangerous than balconies in all other countries. Odd that it's only Canadians who fall off balconies...an evil plot by Mexico against Canadians?


CanuckBob


Jan 24, 2012, 7:19 AM

Post #19 of 76 (17996 views)

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Re: [Axixic] This is too much.

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When we fall off the balcony in Canada we land in the snow........jajaja.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com


Sculptari

Jan 24, 2012, 7:47 AM

Post #20 of 76 (17977 views)

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Re: [Axixic] This is too much.

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Its all about being aware of your surroundings - and balcony railings are a good example.

In Mexico, I have seen beautiful masonry balconies, hundreds of years older than anything built in Canada, I have also seen deadly contraptions holding on by one rusty bolt.

In Canada, the construction codes for balcony railings are stunningly strict and complex. Most builders today just give up, and put in a sheet of tempered glass in a frame. All railings, whether residential or commercial are almost identical for the last ten years - designed by Nanny to protect drunks and toddlers, but enforced to the extreme of protecting drunk toddlers - which are extremely rare!

I have made my choice what kind of balconies I want to live with - now you must make yours.
no longer active on Mexconnect


Axixic


Jan 24, 2012, 8:06 AM

Post #21 of 76 (17956 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] This is too much.

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These are just a few of the more recent stories of Canadians falling off balconies. There are several more of Canadians falling from balconies in Canada. Maybe there should be hotel rooms that don't have balconies for our Northern neighbors.

Canadian news organizations should give advice to travelers about proper balcony safety. Balconies seem to be very dangerous for Canadians.

http://www.wellandtribune.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2754625&archive=true

A 19-year-old Kitchener, Ont., woman is dead after falling off a seven-storey balcony at a Mexican resort and her boyfriend is being investigated by police.

http://ncnguyana.com/ncngy/index.php/local/local-news/social-issues/1931-canadian-falls-3-stories-from-hotel-balcony

Canadian citizen, Javed Vollet remains a patient at the Woodlands Hospital after falling some thirty-six feet from his hotel room balcony.

According to reports Javed Vollet, who is vacationing in Guyana, fell from the third storey of the Princess Hotel around 01:00 hour on Saturday. Investigations revealed that Vollet, along with some friends, were consuming alcohol at Stadium View, a sports bar opposite the hotel.
When he returned to his hotel room he was reportedly drunk and was seen sitting on the balcony rails outside his room when he fell off. He was subsequently rushed to the hospital.

http://mexicovacationawareness.com/victims.html
Ontario woman dies in fall from Mexican balcony

A 19-year-old Ontario woman died on Friday after falling off a balcony at a hotel in Cancun.
Giannina Di Roberto fell from the seventh floor of the Riu Caribe hotel early Friday morning.

http://www.standard-freeholder.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=790817

Another Canadian dead in Mexico; Alberta man dies after plunge off balcony at resort

Chris Morin, a 30-year-old resident of Okotoks south of Calgary, fell to his death early Thursday morning from a fourth-floor balcony. The Cancun newspaper Novedades de Quintana Roo reported that Morin fell after a night of drinking with a friend.


Sculptari

Jan 24, 2012, 8:15 AM

Post #22 of 76 (17947 views)

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Re: [Axixic] This is too much.

  |
You are right - as JR from PV once wrote, there should be signs "Stay Away From the Balcony, Eh".

The day to day life of the average Canadian is tightly controlled, and it becomes in the background. Seat belts, drunk driving, kid's car seats, stopping at red lights or stop signs, not worrying about debris or parts flying off other cars on the highway, shoulders on the highways - need I go on? The only thing that makes me feel better is watching that trucking show, where they send Canadian truckers to India - Mexico is definitely 'safer' than India!
no longer active on Mexconnect


Axixic


Jan 24, 2012, 8:27 AM

Post #23 of 76 (17936 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] This is too much.

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From a Canadian who ain't afraid of no Mexico:

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Remington+survived+Mexico/5959290/story.html

JANUARY 6, 2012
Remington: I survived Mexico

My recent Mexican vacation was fabulous — endless sunshine, beer, fresh seafood, delectable fruit, the dependable hospitality of friendly and polite locals, and more beer.

Not a single headless torso washed up on the beach or got dumped on the street.

The recent murder of two Canadians near Huatulco and Manzanillo won’t keep me away. I’ve been to Mexico often and would go back in a heartbeat.

Should you encounter trouble, there’s also no denying the systemic Mexican police corruption and the propensity to blame the victim. An unusually high number of Canadian deaths in Mexico are attributed to drunken gringos falling off balconies, a scenario a tad too convenient for the local policia.

But, as Mexico’s Secretary of Tourism, Gloria Guevara, pointed out in a recent interview with a U.S. wire service, “Asking if Mexico is safe is a little like asking if something happens in Atlanta, is it safe to go to Seattle?”




yTABDGdW

Jan 24, 2012, 9:58 PM

Post #24 of 76 (17781 views)

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Re: [Axixic] This is too much.

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More front page news in Canada against the Mexican tourism industry. WOW! Its getting creepy CBC, youre like a psycho stalker ex lover!

http://www.cbc.ca/...-couple.html?cmp=rss


(This post was edited by Rolly on Jan 24, 2012, 10:07 PM)


jrpierce


Jan 25, 2012, 4:07 PM

Post #25 of 76 (17625 views)

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Re: [Memo] This is too much.

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Here's a Canadian news story from yesterday that I think offers a very balanced view of the pros/cons of visiting Mexico:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/...rticle2313883/page1/

Speaking as an American, in general, I've found Canadian reporting less histrionic than much of what is reported in the USA.

Jim


(This post was edited by jrpierce on Jan 25, 2012, 4:10 PM)
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