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Minerva909

Dec 16, 2011, 10:06 PM

Post #1 of 45 (3855 views)

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I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I am in Belize - again. I work here, for a good cause (Maya rights), in southern Belize, remote and more than a tad too uncivilised. Daily life chores, which in the USA - or any other civilised country (and I worked in over 50 of them, of which only Mongolia was equally uncomfortable) would take half an hour to an hour a week, after work, here take a lot of time and effort and the result is still highly unsatisfactory.

Here I have a cleaning woman, a laundry woman, a couple of delivery women and men (to deliver water, fruit, veggies, yoghurt, etc), eat lunches in restaurants and stil simple survival (forget comfort) takes a lot of time and effort and - which is almost as bad - seriously curtails my free time to play in the closest, more civilized (read: more loaded with expat/turist comforts) resort town, Placentia.

I hear a lot of expats in Belize settle in Corozal - as it is just across the border from Mexico, where, according to them a routine of daily life is so much easier: well supplied megastores, infinitely bigger variety of foodstuffs and other "stuff", lower prices, etc. etc.

How true could it be? I was hoping to take a trip to at lest Chetumal if not Playa del Carmen or Merida to check it out, but, alas, with two cases in two courts, I can't take any time off now, even during Christmas. But there is Mexconnect, a source of much knowledge of all kinds, so I hope to find out :-))

stevebrtx

Dec 17, 2011, 5:46 AM

Post #2 of 45 (3815 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I researched Belize a bit last year, I found 3 problems I couldn't deal with; to import my '05 Jeep Liberty into the country was $6,500, no apology offered, to go across the border shopping in MX and back was $40, no apology, gas was around $5 at the time - you got it, and they seemed to have some crime problems. Other than that, it seemed a nice place - for rich people, unfortunately I don't qualify.
http://www.chapalaweather.net

sparks

Dec 17, 2011, 5:56 AM

Post #3 of 45 (3816 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Spent 2 weeks just outside of Corozal town in '97 and the main reason locals shopped in Chetumal was there was nothing in Corozal and nothing in the other direction. Was supposed to be a big thing about importing from Mexico but didn't seem to be enforced much. With the new border station it may be different.

I didn't see a mega store anywhere in Belize ... even Belize City. Maybe all changed since the '90's?

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Minerva909

Dec 17, 2011, 6:18 AM

Post #4 of 45 (3809 views)

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Re: [sparks] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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No, it did not. The population in general is still dirt poor, so even small stores - especially here in southern Belize, where close to 50% of population are Maya, the poorest and most marginalized segment of Belize citizenry,- carry mostly canned goods of - at best - questionable quality. Here getting foodstuffs like olive oil, yogurt without sugar, butter, even half decent bread is a small miracle, if at all possible.
There is a relatively decent selection of fruits and veggies, but not in stores, only at the market, where you have to visit a lot of small vendors to get what you want. Perhaps a minor obstacle to someone who is retired and has all the time in the world for grocery shopping, but not for someone like me who works 40+ hours a week and would prefer to spend leisure time on leisure activities: swimming, snorkeling, going to the jungle to see wildlife... not inefficient and highly unsatisfactory surviv al shopping.
And going outside food, it is even worse: no good quality anything. Sheets are more polyester than cotton, pots and pans, matrasses, pillows etc. are unbelievably crappy (cast outs from China?) etc, etc, etc.

Yes, the country is beautiful, very beautiful, but if I did not work here I would only visit for two, three weeks at a time living in a luxury resort, where you don't have to notice country's inconveniences, much less live them.

(This post was edited by Minerva909 on Dec 17, 2011, 6:27 AM)

sparks

Dec 17, 2011, 7:01 AM

Post #5 of 45 (3797 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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There are no clear water beaches near Corozal. I hear you have to go some distance beyond Chetumal for the white sand and clear water

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Minerva909

Dec 17, 2011, 7:46 AM

Post #6 of 45 (3777 views)

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Re: [sparks] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I don't intend to live in Corozal - too far from southern Belize, where I work.

I am planning to move to Placentia in a few months, when I could work partially off site, and then, when my assignment here is done, perhaps spend some longer time (6 months? a year?) somewhere further up the Yucatan, perhaps near Tulum or Playa del Carmen?

If life there is easy, not a hassle, as is life in Belize.

richmx2

Dec 17, 2011, 8:30 AM

Post #7 of 45 (3765 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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One thing you need to consider is that "working for Mayan rights", depending on what that means, may not be something a foreigner can do legally while residing in Mexico, where there are restrictions on non-citizen participation in political activity. If nothing else, Mexicans (including Mexican Mayans) tend to resent foreigners interfering in their political and economic struggles.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Minerva909

Dec 17, 2011, 8:50 AM

Post #8 of 45 (3758 views)

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Re: [richmx2] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Thanks, I am aware of the - sad - restrictions in Mexico on political activity by foreigners. My assignment in Belize concerns Q'eqchi' Maya rights there - mainly their land rights and the court cases agaist the Belize government. I am doing it on invitation of a well regarded (both among Q'eqchi' and internationally) Maya ngo, advocating for their rights in Belize. Belize is a very small country with very small (only about 300 000 people) and vastly undereducated population, so they need to borrow expertise from abroad. I do not think that my activity in Belize, even though partially conducted on line from Mexico, would fall under Mexixo's restriction: it does not interfere with Mexican politics.

(This post was edited by Minerva909 on Dec 17, 2011, 9:00 AM)

RickS

Dec 17, 2011, 11:25 AM

Post #9 of 45 (3713 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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".... somewhere further up the Yucatan, perhaps near Tulum or Playa del Carmen?"

Well, that corridor is certainly civilized but it is (now) almost entirely a tourist haven. Mega all-inclusive resorts and multi-story condos dot the beaches from Playa del Carmen down to Akumal at least. Playa itself is no longer a sleepy little village but a full-fledged tourist trap (don't get me wrong.... many tourists just love it but it is not the quaint getaway it once was). Below Tulum, on the 'beach road' to Punta Alan, 'used' to be so, so pristine but that has also built up to an extent.

For some reason the town of Puerto Morelos, up close to Cancun, has escaped to a large extent this mega build-up. While it is not like it used to be (what is!) it still has some semblance of the Yucatan circa 1995. A decent apartment can be had for something less than your entire bank account.

Another place that used be be almost impossible to get to was the Majahual beach area out east/N.E. of Chetumal (but you can't get there from there!). But has has changed with a 'new' road. While I have not been there, I understand that it is still nice but is quickly building up. Pretty remote 'tho but getting more civilized.

playaboy

Dec 17, 2011, 6:40 PM

Post #10 of 45 (3664 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I have lived in Playa del Carmen area for 8 years and love it. I have access to 95% of the things here that I used in the States. I like having WalMart, Mega, Soriana, and Chedueri. There are movie theaters, restaurants, and shopping malls. None of these things are for tourists but are for the locals.

The whole area is a tourist based economy and since Cancun and the Riviera Maya is the 4th most visited resort area in the world, there is a new large local Mexican middle class.

I hardly ever go to the tourist zone because there is so much more local flavor to enjoy.

Minerva909

Dec 18, 2011, 10:47 AM

Post #11 of 45 (3595 views)

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Re: [playaboy] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Thanks, RickS, Playaboy for your inputs. I must admit that I am not looking for remoteness. The ngo that I work with manages a vast (42 000 acres!) and most remote national park, a jungle, and I go on patrols with their park rangers - and Belize military( it would be too dangerous to patrol the park without them) every time I can. I think I have seen enough manatees, iguanas, howler monkeys, even coral snakes and vipers (fer de lance) to last me a lifetime.

Besides I work for the benefit of the population of very remote Maya villages, without electricity, running water, even latrines and not a single store within miles and miles, and I spend considerable time there, to be sure that I am really doing what they want me to do.... so I have slept in huts with thach roofs and dirt floors, pondering where on earth am I going to go to the restroom... where there is nothing even remotely resembling one in an entire village.

So I certainly do have enough remoteness when working to not want any of it where I live.

So I am with playaboy. Where I live I want all services at a phone call (or internet order), mixing not only with locals (Spanish is - chronologically - my seventh language and I am only at upper intermediate level, whereas I am comfortable in English and several other european languages) but with expats from all over the world would be nice, and I hear Playa is a place in Mexico with lots of Europeans.

But I also have to admit that I love snorkeling and - if I remeber correctly - Puerto Morelos was a good place to do it, straight from the shore (I might be mistaken, though - it has been about a decade ago and I no longer remember the name of my favorite snorkeling spot on Riviera Maya.

So I shall visit both Playa and Puerto before I make a decision where to stay. Thanks y'all for your advice.

(This post was edited by Minerva909 on Dec 18, 2011, 10:58 AM)

roni_smith

Jan 2, 2012, 2:59 PM

Post #12 of 45 (3238 views)

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Re: [RickS] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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There are stringent limits on the height of buildings in Playa del Carmen.

You are technically correct about multi-story buildings, as there are 3 and 4 story buildings, but you leave an incorrect impression.

We enjoy Merida, Playa, Isla Mujeres, Mahahual and Xcalak for vacation.

Merida is the city we will move to, however. It has the required medical, educational and cultural infrastructure.
------
Planning for Mexico Move Blog

Minerva909

Jan 2, 2012, 3:50 PM

Post #13 of 45 (3222 views)

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Re: [roni_smith] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Merida seems lovely to visit, but for me it seems both too big and... too Mexican: I definitively prefer a mixture of languages and backgrounds.

And i do not intend to stay in Mexico longer than a year, perhaps a couple of years - a last adventure on the new continent, lol. And yes, by now I found where my favorite snorkeling spot in Mexico is: Yal Ku lagoon in Akumal, so I shall look there for a long term rental.

If/when I get sick or infirm I'll head back to Europe, with its high quality, practically free health care (ok paid for by taxes... but living elsewhere I still pay taxes on my Swedish income, without enjoying any benefits).

And all EU members can live in any EU country they want, so I won't need to return to beautiful but very cold Scandinavia - other than for a visit in the height of summer.

Southern Spain, where most Scandinavians retire, as there winters in Europe are the mildest, is, undoubtedly colder than Mexico, but culturally it is a gem, food is great and all these wines, sherries, ports... Life can be good even for an anciana. :-)

(This post was edited by Minerva909 on Jan 2, 2012, 3:58 PM)

eyePad

Jan 5, 2012, 8:14 AM

Post #14 of 45 (3052 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Minerva,
To hear someone speak of "Mayan rights" and the "new continent" at the same time is hard to take in. After all, it was only "new" to europeans so ignorant they couldn't distinguish the Americas from the Indian subcontinent.

I follow current events in Spain and I wouldn't be too eager to idealize the country. As much as I love Spain, unemployment is 23%; in the youth sector it is over 50%. Deficit is 8% and rising. Historical events took place last year like the first constitucional amendment (to balance the budget) since the dictatorship. Since the PP has clearly routed the PSOE at the polls "you haven't seen nothing yet"
apáñatelas como puedas

Minerva909

Jan 5, 2012, 8:37 AM

Post #15 of 45 (3044 views)

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Re: [eyePad] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Oh, well, I am European so to me Americas are the "new continent" - though not to Mayas.

(And it was not called a new continent when early European explorers initially thought they found a new route to India, as India was a part of old continent. Besides, it is easy to accuse of ignorance people who had no way of knowing any better - they had no advanced positioning devices at that time, so please take things into their historical perspective)

I do not need to deny my own ancestry to be able to acknowledge the rights of the Mayas - and other indigenous people - and assist in fighting for them, do I?

As for Spain: yes, I am aware of the problems there, however, I would be a snow bird - or an expat there: not looking for employment, not taking any jobs from anybody - on the contrary - like all other Northern Europeans I would be bringing money (and employment opportunities) to Spain.

Not only in the form of our pensions, but also in the form of generous reimbursements from our - richer - countries for the cost of our health care, medications and any other services.

Spain needs retirees, both full time expats and snowbirds. And so does Greece, but poor Greece has a misfortune of having a different alphabet, not only a different language, so it has a lot less expats than Spain.

(This post was edited by Minerva909 on Jan 5, 2012, 8:55 AM)

HhowieE

Jan 5, 2012, 10:21 AM

Post #16 of 45 (3009 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I have been to YalKu many times over the years and watched as it moved from having infrequent visitors to now experiencing bus loads of all-in tourists daily.
Akumal is the pueblo closest to the lagoon with a very large expat American population. Tulum to the south is larger with a diverse population and all the conveniences you seek. Affordable rentals can be found in this corridor between Akumal and Tulum, offering you the shopping convenience, medical services and telephone/internet delivery if you choose it.
Snorkeling and pristine beaches are always close by without having to deal with the large groups of tour buses if you wish.
Yes there has been immense change in the beach strip south of Tulum toward Punta Allen but the hotels have not ventured into the Sian Kaan yet. Very little development has occurred south of the "arches", entrance to the Biosphere. The population in Punta Allen has remained, to a large extent, Maya, dependent upon the fishery supplemented by tourist income through tours and fishing.
Judging from your past experiences and present wish for convenience within a natural setting, a closer look at this area may prove useful.
I have lived in the area on and off for the past five years, own property in the Sian Kaan and have interests in Chemuyil, a small enclave of expats between Akumal and Tulum.
If you decide to test drive the area, let me know, I may be able to help you navigate my Hood.
Happy New Year and good luck in finding what you need.
Ron

sfmacaws

Jan 5, 2012, 10:39 AM

Post #17 of 45 (3004 views)

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Re: [HhowieE] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I've also owned a place in Akumal for about 15 years, been going there for about 20 years. Snorkeling is great both in the ocean and in Yal Ku, If you want to snorkel in Yal Ku lagoon, go early in the day (before 11am) or late in the day (after 3pm) and you won't encounter as many tours.

Still, my reading of the OP's wants are for more of a cosmopolitan, city environment to counter the isolation of her location in Belize. Given that, I think Playa del Carmen is where you want to be. There are a lot of Europeans there, many Italians and Spaniards, and it is a lively place with clubs and restaurants for any taste. It's central enough to take trips to Akumal or Tulum and it has a better nightlife for local expats than in Cancun.

As for the title question - Yes, Quintana Roo and Yucatan are much more comfortable than Belize. You can find locations in both states that are similar to the outback of Belize but you can also find all of the modern amenities in the cities. That isn't possible in Belize. Belize is a beautiful country but it is severely limited in many ways, not just in the availability of stuff.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

RickS

Jan 5, 2012, 12:33 PM

Post #18 of 45 (2980 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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"you can find locations in both states that are similar to the outback of Belize..."

Could/would you expound on this por favor.

sfmacaws

Jan 5, 2012, 1:36 PM

Post #19 of 45 (2971 views)

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Re: [RickS] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I didn't want to imply that all of the states of QRoo and Yucatan were modern and full of commercial opportunities. There are many, many small pueblos in the interior that are as poor as those in the interior of Belize. Mayan pueblos off the paved roads and with little infrastructure, perhaps electric but very limited. Access is difficult without 4 wheel drive in the rainy season. In addition, there are areas in southern QRoo and Campeche that get much higher amounts of rain than in the northern parts of the state, they support a much higher jungle canopy - as in Belize - and even some above ground rivers and lakes.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

eyePad

Jan 6, 2012, 12:02 PM

Post #20 of 45 (2856 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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I see I won't change your mind and it's off topic anyway.

My comment wasn't about whether ancient explorers had GPS - how silly. It was that the Americas (one example being the Maya) are as old or older than much of Europe. I'm tired of the historically inaccurate idea that it is "new" continent.

My other comment was that Europe is going through a crisis. Very serious crisis. I'm sure retirees will not save Spain.

In one small detail you are wrong - Spain has limited the number of Romanians who can immigrate. This is a big deal due to the sheer numbers.
apáñatelas como puedas

(This post was edited by eyePad on Jan 6, 2012, 12:07 PM)

Minerva909

Jan 7, 2012, 7:50 AM

Post #21 of 45 (2784 views)

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Re: [eyePad] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Yes, i do agree with you that Americas are as old as Europe or older. And I appreciate your point of view.

Romania joined EU in 2007 and it will take years before it can lift itself up to the level. Restrictions on the freedom of working in older EU countries have been affecting all newcomers for a number of years.

Romanians in Spain are not retirees with comfortable incomes from outside Spain, they are there to seek employment. Besides many of them are Romas (or gypsies in popular -not politically correct -language) who, unfortunately, have a tough time getting acceptance in many European countries, most infamously France.

I agree that many European countries are in crisis - and that Northern European retirees (including Brits, Germans, Dutch etc., not just Scandinavians) can't alone save Spain. But they are a big help - due to their sheer numbers and the amount of money they bring to the economy. In many places on the southern coast of Spain expat retirees already constitute 20-25% of population - and that counting only expats who live in Spain permanently, not counting a much bigger hoards of snow birds, who spend there about half a year.

Now try to imagine that in turisty/expaty places in Mexico: 20 - 25% of population of expats who do not seek jobs, who bring money and buy all kinds of goods and services. One thing would be different, though: since they are US expats, they do not bring US government reimbursements for their health care etc., since their "market is king" and " we care only about the top 1%" house and senate simply deny them any right to healthcare, when they live abroad!

Talk about crisis - as a retiree I'd choose Europe with its problems over USA with its Tea Party anti "big-government" confused souls who vote against their own best interests any time.

But that does not mean I can't live in Mexico or anywhere else in the world for a while, if I feel like it.

Minerva909

Jan 7, 2012, 7:54 AM

Post #22 of 45 (2781 views)

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Re: [HhowieE] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Thanks so much for the suggestion and an offer to show me around. I have to stay in Belize for at least 3, perhaps 5 more months, but I plan to take a week or so off in March for a trip to Riviera Maya and shall definitively be in touch.

Minerva909

Jan 7, 2012, 8:05 AM

Post #23 of 45 (2778 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Thanks for your insightful reply. You got me right: I am after a more cosmopolitan place, a place where I could mix with people from different countries and backgrounds, where I could have an opportunity to use more than one or two languages. An old brain needs constant stimulation to not deteriorate too quickly. I am not much for night life, but would appreciate a good language school, cultural venues - both visual and performance, very hard to come by in remote areas.

eyePad

Jan 7, 2012, 11:17 AM

Post #24 of 45 (2747 views)

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Re: [Minerva909] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Here is something we can agree on and why I love Spain. In Spain if I speak another language nobody thinks twice about it. In the USA they stare at you. I think it has been documented in studies that people who use their brains to learn another language live longer. It blew me away when I realized a lot of expats in Mexico don't learn Spanish. I still can't believe it when I re-read that sentence. It is so rewarding! I have a friend in Santiago de Compostela who got a degree in English linguistics and then got her masters in the same subject in London. She thinks the english speaking world is where it's at and after myself suffering through the iberian bureaucracy I almost agree with her. If it is at all possible, I think Spain is even worse than Mexico for bureaucracy..
apáñatelas como puedas

Minerva909

Jan 7, 2012, 8:06 PM

Post #25 of 45 (2692 views)

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Re: [eyePad] I wonder... how much more comfortable is southern Mexico comparing to Belize?

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Lol, bureaucracy in the whole Latin America (except Brazil) is of Spanish origin: the nobility there had to have jobs fro their younger offspring - those who would not inherit family castles in Spain - so they shipped them to their colonies to create bysantine bureaucracy.

Now, about languages. To be fair I have never been stared at when I spoke foreign languages in the USA talking to my foreign friends. Sometimes people would smile and ask what language are we speaking and where we were from. And then they try to say something nice about your country... which is nice, even if they occasionallly confuse Sweden with Switzerland (Swedish and Swiss sound so alike to many).

And let me assure you that many northern European expats - and even more snow birds - do not learn any Spanish either. They think it is enough they speak English no matter where they are abroad. And Britts, of course speak English (or Cockney or any of the dialects) at home and abroad, rare being one, that would bother to learn any other language... and if and when... it would be French, not Spanish.
Así es la vida...

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