Forums > General > Traveling Mexico

mensamia

Dec 29, 2011, 9:13 AM

Post #1 of 18 (4489 views)

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Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Perhaps it would be better to take an alternate route:

http://articles.nydailynews.com/...-mexican-border-city

chicois8

Dec 29, 2011, 10:45 AM

Post #2 of 18 (4469 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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I guess the headline in a Mexican newspaper would read:

3 Mexican Nationals killed in bus attack ...........

Altahabana

Dec 29, 2011, 11:55 AM

Post #3 of 18 (4454 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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"I guess the headline in a Mexican newspaper would read: 3 Mexican Nationals killed in bus attack ..........."

You bet it would if they were killed by a criminal organization on a bus in the United States. But if you are really interested in the Mexican press coverage of the incident, which I doubt, then you could have read it yourself and you would know what they reported. Once the victims were identified, the nationality/residence status of the mother and two girls who lived in Ft. Worth was certainly mentioned.

This incident happened before Christmas and I have no idea why the OP is just now posting this. The incident would have gone unreported in the American media like most all cartel violence had three of the victims not been U.S. citizens/residents.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Dec 29, 2011, 12:01 PM)

RickS

Dec 29, 2011, 12:35 PM

Post #4 of 18 (4441 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Mensamia, this was the same incident that has been discussed here for the last week. Were you away? Also, you suggest 'maybe it would be better to take an alternate route'. While I'm not sure just what this question might mean, I'm assuming that you may be saying 'don't come to Mexico on this route'. No? The facts of this story are that this bus incident (murders is a better terminology) occurred in a remote area of Northern Veracruz 'in a region rarely traveled by tourists' according to the original story.

What you do is, of course, your business. You said recently that you were considering moving to Mexico... maybe Mineral de Pozos. But all your posts are dwelling on bad news in Mexico..... Senior women being murdered; Canadian Woman Murdered in SMA; Safety - Everything is Relative; SLP & Ciudad Valles - gunfights, mutilated bodies; Americans Killed in bus attack.... I could go on.

I'm thinking that either you are trying to convince yourself not to come or trying to find out if it really is safe to be in this country.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

chicois8

Dec 29, 2011, 12:39 PM

Post #5 of 18 (4435 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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The OP has 30 hits when she started her post,look at
http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=172587;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

on the retirement forum, beating a dead horse........

mensamia

Dec 30, 2011, 7:07 AM

Post #6 of 18 (4360 views)

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Re: [RickS] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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The link is relevant to travelling in Mexico. And you are correct, it is a week late. So should it be removed from a forum on travelling in Mexico because it is a week late ?

And yes, i have considered a move to Mexico so this forum is important to me. And if reading only the good stuff about Mexico is what some forum visitors want, the title of that post should steer them away.

But, if someone is considering bus travel near Veracruz, I imagine they'd want to read this.

Altahabana

Dec 30, 2011, 9:59 AM

Post #7 of 18 (4335 views)

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Re: [mensamia] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Of course it is relevant and I was frankly surprised it wasn't posted earlier on the travel forum. But it's my impression that if an incident doesn't relate to safety/security along a specific route that ex-pats/travelers use or an area which they frequent, it is not particularly well received on this forum. If you look at the other thread about this incident on the retirement forum, it quickly devolved into bickering about the number and ethnicity of murder victims in Denver the year of the Columbine incident, the dangerousness of inner city Detroit and Bagdad (Iraq) and other inane comparisons that some posters typically use to deflect attention from security/safety issues and cartel activity.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Dec 30, 2011, 10:03 AM)

Axixic

Dec 30, 2011, 4:36 PM

Post #8 of 18 (4299 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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It also didn't mention that the husband and father of the people killed is in prison for inappropriate sexual activity with his step-daughter or that he has Huntington's disease. Inappropriate sexual activity is common with Huntington's. The man should not be in prison but he should not be around children either.

Comparing events, places, things is what people do. I consider Juno, Alaska cold compared to Austin, Texas. I consider some places safer than others by comparing the statistics in the areas. If you think looking at statistics is not the way to make decisions, then how do you do it and why? Statically and sadly the children should have been safer visiting relatives in Mexico than at home with their father.

http://www.star-telegram.com/...ught-for-jailed.html

"The children's father, Mike Hartsell, is jailed in Burnet County after pleading guilty to prohibited sexual conduct with his stepdaughter, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. He also has a family violence conviction on his record."

(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 30, 2011, 4:54 PM)

esperanza

Dec 30, 2011, 6:34 PM

Post #9 of 18 (4274 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Axixic, your post has absolutely no relevance to the murder of these innocent people.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

chinagringo

Dec 30, 2011, 7:02 PM

Post #10 of 18 (4269 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Neither does the OP's post when this same topic has been discussed for over a week!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Altahabana

Dec 30, 2011, 8:32 PM

Post #11 of 18 (4259 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Your response certainly illustrates my point that posts about incidents of cartel violence aren't well received. I wasn't aware of the other thread that was linked in the first response, but I did read it and it has very little information about the bus incident and alot of comparative crime analysis.

I had read the Star-Telegraph article you linked and It does not surprise me that you chose to emphasize the sexual impropriety angle. To me that simply added to the overall tragedy. The focus of the article was the incident's affect on the 10 year old survivor, Michael, who has been left parentless. You did at least provide a link so people can read the entire story, including the description of how and why the victims were killed.

Coincidentally I am driving to Monclova Coahuila tomorrow to join my family for New Years Eve and II did not refer to violent crime statistics in Detroit and New Orleans in deciding whether to make the trip. I care about what--if anything--the Zetas are doing along the route and I know how to inform myself about that.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Dec 30, 2011, 8:35 PM)

Axixic

Dec 31, 2011, 5:00 AM

Post #12 of 18 (4240 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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If you had read the other thread then you know that comparing other areas is appropriate. You must have read some of it if you gleaned out a few names of locations.

There are those who think all of Mexico is a dangerous bad land and explaining that there are areas in their home country, the U.S.A., that are considered more dangerous is appropriate because they have no fear of visiting those more dangerous areas. They have a feeling of safety in cities more dangerous to them than anyplace in Mexico because the less safe cities are a known, familiar location to them.

The point was that people read of one or two incidents and apply those to a whole foreign country but never apply the same incidents to their own country.

I didn't read anywhere that anyone is telling you not to visit any state in Mexico, did you?

Brian

Jan 12, 2012, 5:23 AM

Post #13 of 18 (3936 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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Some might object to this post because it is "old news" having happened prior to last Christmas. I am sending it anyway because it adds some more details to the outrageous murders which I have not read elsewhere. This family will be added to the list of forgotten victims soon enough. I think it is worth reading even though it dredges up a story many would rather not think about.

http://insightcrime.org/...he-hartsells?-part-i

http://www.insightcrime.org/...e-hartsells?-part-ii

Altahabana

Jan 12, 2012, 4:50 PM

Post #14 of 18 (3834 views)

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Re: [Brian] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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I had a hard time trying to understand what the author thought might have been behind the incidents that morning. But I think he's right that as far as the government is concerned the case was closed when the military took out the group that morning. I doubt we will ever know what was really behind this incident. There is seldom any media follow-up to the higher profile incidents in this part of the country and the results of any official investigations are rarely made public, assuming that investigations were even done. The San Fernando bus incidents last spring and the murder of PRI gubernatorial candidate Rudolfo Torre Cantu in 2010 are good examples. That is just the way things are and you have to accept them and carry on.

kwatts7304

Jan 13, 2012, 7:04 PM

Post #15 of 18 (3740 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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I read on borderlandbeat.com that the grandmother is saying that the mom had $1000 us dollars on her at the time and that no one was robbed. The same seemd to be true with the other buses and the grenade they threw into the vegetable truck. I think this is one of those stories we will never know.

Kim

whynotwrite

Jan 14, 2012, 7:07 AM

Post #16 of 18 (3696 views)

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Re: [kwatts7304] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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If you read it on Borderland Beat it MUST be true.

Altahabana

Jan 14, 2012, 7:49 AM

Post #17 of 18 (3683 views)

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Re: [whynotwrite] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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As opposed to "If you read it in Borderland Beat it MUST not be true?" Several articles in the Fort Worth and Dallas papers that have covered the story included the fact that the mother was carrying $1000 in cash, hardly uncommon for Mexican families travelling home from the US for the Christmas holidays. But clearly whether or not she was carrying cash was not your point when adding your insightful comment.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Jan 14, 2012, 7:55 AM)

kwatts7304

Jan 14, 2012, 1:38 PM

Post #18 of 18 (3646 views)

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Re: [whynotwrite] Americans killed bus attack travel nr Veracruz

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WhynotWrite:

So, apparently, I should have said that Borderland Beat is reporting that info based on articles appearing in the Texas newspapers not from Borderland Beat directly. Secondly, this wasn't the only paper reporting this same info as is noted above. Lastly, I like reading Borderlandbeat.com because it gives me some perspective as to what is going on in Mexico. If you don't like it, so be it but I wrote the info for those that are interested in the Americans that were killed as I, myself, would like to know if it was random or if there is more to the story as the grandmother suggests. I hope I have answered whatever the question was that you were asking.

Kim

PS Thanks Altahabana.

(This post was edited by kwatts7304 on Jan 14, 2012, 1:43 PM)