Living costs in Mexico

Living costs in Mexico

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Can anyone give me an idea of the cost of basic things these days in Mexico (particularly Lake Chapala, or Mazatlan)?

I mean such basics as a liter of gasoline, a loaf of bread, eggs,frankfurters (beef and/or pork, not chicken or turkey), ground beef, milk, etc. Prices here in Toronto are going out of sight.

esperanza

Dec 17, 2011, 2:48 PM

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Re: [brooklyn] Living costs in Mexico

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The cost per liter of gasoline is government controlled; it is the same everywhere in the interior of Mexico. Right now a liter of unleaded regular gasoline costs 9.73 pesos; unleaded premium is 10.59, and diesel is 10.09.

The answer to every other question you ask is the same as most answers about Mexico: it depends.

Bread: it depends on what kind you buy. A loaf of white Bimbo sandwich-type bread costs less than an artisanal loaf of French-style baguette, and the cost of either will depend on the store where you buy it. Pan dulce, Mexico's delicious sweet bread in its hundred of varieties, costs 3.5 to 5 pesos the piece at the bakery near me.
Eggs: this week I paid 26.50 pesos for 18 jumbo red eggs at Costco. In many places, eggs are sold not by the dozen but by the kilo. They run just about 18 pesos/kilo.
Frankfurters: again, it depends. Others will give you examples; I don't buy them. I do buy chistorra, a kind of Argentine spiced sausage; that costs about 135 pesos/kilo.
The butcher shop near me charges 90 pesos for a kilo of truly extraordinary low-fat, coarsely ground beef. Superama (the high end of Wal-Mart and an excellent supermarket) charges 89 pesos for a kilo of excellent ground beef. You can pay less and you can probably pay more.
You didn't ask about fruits and vegetables, but these usually cost substantially less than you pay in Canada and are available year round at a tianguis (street market) in your town or neighborhood.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

cookj5

Dec 17, 2011, 10:33 PM

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Re: [brooklyn] Living costs in Mexico

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Piggy-backing on Esperanza's excellent reply, it also depends on whether you choose the Mexican brand or the imported brand on whatever you are looking for. The imported brand will nearly always cost more, sometimes 2-3 times more for the same quantity. Unfortunately, there are no requirements in Mexico for supermarkets to "unit price" so you have to be careful that you are comparing like quantities when pricing. It takes a little practice and some fast figuring in your head, but it's thoroughly doable.

All that said, my wife and I maintain a lifestyle in Ajijic similar to what we enjoyed in Oregon for about 1/2 of the Oregon cost of living, all regular monthly expenses included. Many people spend a lot more, because they just have to have those NOB products and don't bother to carefully shop and compare. If they've got the money to burn, good for them. But you can enjoy a very comfortable life here for far less than those people spend here, or for what you are spending up North.

Dec 18, 2011, 6:27 AM

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Re: [cookj5] Living costs in Mexico

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I get inquiries, often through the weather station, from people interested in possibly moving here. I begin by telling them some basic things and a couple of shock factors along with some "icing on the cake" things and I'm going to talk in US terms, our dollars are very similar now.

The cost of living here depends in large part on whether you live "gringo" or "Mexican". Many of us don't give up our north of the border (NOB) lifestyles easily and so we pay more. I developed a little rule of thumb that says "if the average native person needs and uses it, it's probably reasonable, otherwise you're going to pay".

Let's start with "icing" first; the peso is normally around 10:1 to the US dollar and so when we shop we do that conversion in our heads easily, a haircut is $70p or $7USD etc. However the last 3 years have seen the peso go as high as 15:1 meaning that $70p haircut was really $6.60 in US dollars which on a monthly basis can be significant. I'm required to pay my rent in USD so I don't get the advantage there.

On the other side of the coin an example might be a small TV I bought recently, I paid $2,000p for something readily available in the US for $100. A medium size can of Bush's baked beans for the 4th of July $80p. Needless to say you lose your taste for comfort foods quickly. I have Shaw Direct satellite TV, the same system available to you for $199 there, I paid $7,500p here and installed it myself.

Rent can be very reasonable, especially away from the "gringo ghetto" along the N shore, or you can pay as much as you want which will still be less than NOB. One of the prime factors being property taxes, by our standards they're non-existent. In TX my house was worth about $400K, I paid $6K annual tax meaning if I rented it, the base rent would start at $500 just to cover tax. Here I rent a place equally valued, the tax is $2000p per year or, at todays peso conversion, about $12USD a month to the owner. Conversely, you get what you pay for, our infrastructure is, shall we say, a bit more "rustic".

Full coverage for my '05 Jeep SUV is $350USD a year and as mentioned gas is fixed and currently still less than the US. You can eat a great steak dinner in the Village for $1100p and I do mean great. Labor is very inexpensive, so anything labor intensive is reasonable. I had a minor fender bender 2 years ago, $3000p and you'd never know it was touched, NOB it would easily have been $1,000USD.

Hidden expenses again vary by person and by preference; I keep a TX mailbox to retain my TX address etc, mail is brought down twice a week, about $260USD annually. Renewing my visa annually if I did it myself, something like $1300p, I have it done by my lawyer, total $2,500p.

And, I saved the best for last, electricity provided by the CFE, essentially government operated (guaranteed to be inefficient) often referred to as "Can't Furnish Electricity" for various reasons. If you are a typical native person using very little - and I do mean VERY little - it's subsidized by the MXN government about 78% bringing the cost down to something like $1.7p per KWH (actually expensive even at that rate). Or, if you have a pool, run computers, TV's etc. you pay full boat which the CFE claims is right at $4p per KWH. Meaning that at what is called the DAC rate we're paying $.40USD (converting at 10:1) per KWH or the 3rd highest in the world. Here I use 1/4th the total per month as in TX and pay the same. Plus, it's "dirty" inconsistent power meaning we have to buy regulators to protect all valuable equipment, computers, TV's etc.

I realize this has been a sizable "drink from the firehose" when all you asked for was the cost of bread, but it's worth saying out loud. I rent my casita to a lady from Ontario so I hear about Canadian costs and it is definitely less expensive here and a heck of a lot warmer this time of year.

Dec 18, 2011, 7:09 AM

Post #5 of 102 (17484 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] Living costs in Mexico

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In Reply To

I really like almost all of stevebrtx's insights.
Said another way: If you are willing to live like a Middle Class person with a Middle Class Mexican lifestyle & amenities, you'll find the costs of living much lower here. If you feel you must replicate much of a Canadian/US lifestyle, where only 5% of the world's people use 90% of the world's resources, then your overall cost of living may only be a little lower, unless you have significant medical expenses.

Even if you live a energy-intensive/resource-intensive Canadian/US lifestyle, but need a lot of medical care, your medical savings here will usually give a net much lower cost of living.

e.g. A typical dental crown in the USA costs around $1,500 - $2,500 USD, while equivalent dental care in Mexico costs $250 - $400 USD per crown.

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We've found one minor different with stevebrtx's observations: The power rates quoted above don't fit our experience or Wiki-quoted rates at all. Our net power CFE power rates for our basic power are just $0.14 pesos per KWH, which is 28X lower than the DAC value reported above.

Our initial quoted rate is $0.64 pesos per KWH for higher hot season rates, which is then reduced by a 78% government subsidy, which puts our basic power rate at just $0.0102 US dollars per KWH = or 1 penny per KWH => which makes it the second cheapest power rate in the world.

Even if you go beyond the Basico rate and into the Intermedio rate, and then go even further - beyond the Suma rate - and then go even further beyond into the DAC (High Consumption Rate), (using pool pumps, lots of air conditioning, etc as stevebrtx described), our DAC rates are $0.26 USD per KWH => less than Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, etc - 32'rd out of 39 countries listed in Wikipedia.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Dec 18, 2011, 7:12 AM)

Dec 18, 2011, 8:13 AM

Post #6 of 102 (17459 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] Living costs in Mexico

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You read 'em, I'll weep.
http://chapalaweather.net/Casita.jpg
http://chapalaweather.net/CasaGrande.jpg

Add this from another "government owned" utility:
http://chapalaweather.net/AustinElectric.jpg

(This post was edited by stevebrtx on Dec 18, 2011, 8:35 AM)

johanson

Dec 18, 2011, 8:35 AM

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Re: [stevebrtx] Living costs in Mexico

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My last CFE bill went up 81 % over the previous bill. Before you go into shock, The previous bill was $101 pesos for 120 KWH and this one was $182 pesos for 204 KWH. Yes I have a pool and all those other things people have up north. I'm not only in tariff 1 but in the lower portion thereof, here along the shores of Lake Chapala

What's my secret? Well I actually used 787 KWH from CFE during that billing period, mostly at night and generated an additional 583 KWH above and beyond what I needed during the sunny hours and sold it back to CFE. Yes, I have photovoltaic solar panels. What's the payback? It depends on your situation, but if you're in DAC and want to get to the lower subsidized consumption rates, some salespersons will tell you 5 1/2 years. In may case it will be closer to 8 or 10 years.

I'm on my 3rd year

Gringal

Dec 18, 2011, 9:14 AM

Post #8 of 102 (17431 views)

Re: [cookj5] Living costs in Mexico

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A comment on the "imported brand" matter: At our local Superlake market, there's an aisle of soups. On one side, imported Campbells Soup. On the other "Mexican" Campbells soup. IMO, the Mexican soup is better and costs way less. Same deal with all the foodstuffs that are imported. There's a point at which you swat yourself on the side of the head and realize that your preferences CAN change if you want to eat well but for less.

Dining out: Most nice restaurants around lakeside will provide you with a good lunch for from $50 pesos on up.
Dinner: Up the ante to $100 up, but some include soup or salad and little extras to go with it.

Dec 18, 2011, 9:33 AM

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Re: [Gringal] Living costs in Mexico

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Ha, yes, I forgot to mention the last time I had Bush's beans or a can of Hormel chili was about 3 1/2 years ago, amazing how your taste can change isn't it?

Dec 18, 2011, 2:11 PM

Post #10 of 102 (17370 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] Living costs in Mexico

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You read 'em, I'll weep.
http://chapalaweather.net/Casita.jpg
http://chapalaweather.net/CasaGrande.jpg

Add this from another "government owned" utility:
http://chapalaweather.net/AustinElectric.jpg

Over 1265 KWH in one bill? Whew!

Our highest 2 month bill this year for 2300 sq ft & Yucatan heat: 710 KWH for $717 pesos.

Hope this helps the OP to see the difference between heavy electrical use @ $4,300 pesos vs modest electrical use at $717 pesos.

This demonstrates stevebrtx and my point about the lifestyle you choose and its cost of living.
steve
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Dec 18, 2011, 2:23 PM)

Vichil

Dec 18, 2011, 2:29 PM

Post #11 of 102 (17362 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] Living costs in Mexico

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interesting in May my bill was $2167.24 for a modest 554 KW. This was in Ajijic.

(This post was edited by Vichil on Dec 18, 2011, 2:32 PM)

Dec 18, 2011, 2:41 PM

Post #12 of 102 (17358 views)

Re: [Vichil] Living costs in Mexico

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CFE Tarifa zone 1C for us in Merida.
Our power is reasonably clean, but individual block's transformers often run above 132V.
Our power is also reasonably stable - where I only have to reset our electronic clocks once every 2 months due to short outages.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

Dec 18, 2011, 7:49 PM

Post #13 of 102 (17294 views)

Re: [YucaLandia] Living costs in Mexico

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I believe you misread the bill, it was 907 for 2 months and nearly 200 of it was the pool. The TX bill was over 2300 for 1 month, no pool but a total electric house with 2 heat pumps running 8 tons of AC.

Dec 18, 2011, 9:06 PM

Post #14 of 102 (17279 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] Living costs in Mexico

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I think I read your bills correctly: Oct 4 - Dec 5 = the same period of time I quoted for our Yucatan house & casita CFE bill, where I wrote:

" Our highest 2 month bill this year for 2300 sq ft & Yucatan heat: 710 KWH for $717 pesos. "

.
Your Casita Suma was 358 KWH + Casa Grande Suma 907 KWH = a total of 1,265 KWH for the same period.
Your usage cost $3,719 + $594 = $4,313 total pesos for your household vs. our $717 pesos for our house and casita on just one meter for the same period.

I compared your higher consumption Mexican household electric bill with our lower consumption Mexican household electric bill for the same 2 months from the same supplier, CFE:

"Hope this helps the OP to see the difference between heavy electrical use @ $4,300 pesos vs modest electrical use at $717 pesos. "

I'm left confused: What have I misread? We paid $1 peso per KWH, while you paid $3.4 pesos per hour over the same period: 7.2 US cents per KWH for modest use versus 25 cents per KWH for heavy use?

Average US electric power rates are 11.2 cents per KWH for comparison. http://en.wikipedia.org/...ity_price_comparison

Isn't it correct that in Mexico: light & modest electricity users pay some of the lowest electrical rates in the world, while heavy consumers pay higher rates - as shown by our bills? Or is there another factor I missed?

Trying to understand,
steve
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What did I miss ?
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Dec 18, 2011, 10:21 PM)

Axixic

Dec 19, 2011, 4:54 AM

Post #15 of 102 (17263 views)

Re: [stevebrtx] Living costs in Mexico

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In Reply To

You read 'em, I'll weep.
http://chapalaweather.net/Casita.jpg
http://chapalaweather.net/CasaGrande.jpg

Add this from another "government owned" utility:
http://chapalaweather.net/AustinElectric.jpg

Why not see if you can have the bill put in your name so that the billing starts all over at the lowest rate? That will get you out of DAC and maybe you can use less and stay out of DAC.

DavidHF

Dec 19, 2011, 5:39 AM

Post #16 of 102 (17256 views)

Re: [Axixic] Living costs in Mexico

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One must average less than 500 kwh per billing period to avoid the DAC rate in the Chapala area. Over 3000 per year period and you're in DAC for at least another year.

Dec 19, 2011, 5:47 AM

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Re: [Axixic] Living costs in Mexico

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Steve, ah, I see what you did, the Casita is rented out, so it's not "my" bill. During the summer when empty it's only a few dollars. If it weren't for my pool (which I haven't used in 4 years here) my usage would be less than yours, and if I owned the place I'd back a dump truck in and fill it day 1 and build a palapa, but it's not and I can't.

The casa grande is in my name and yes, when you change names, for $500p thank you, it resets your rate, but you quickly end up back in DAC. Actually I have improved efficiency if you will notice from the previous year, and if you went back to '07 when I first arrived it was considerably higher. Since that time I've gone from a large 100W desktop to a small 26W Dell, all outside security lighting is CFL, a new pool pump is about 30% more efficient and my TV/Stereo/ShawDirect/regulator stack is on an X10 switch so they are only "on" when I'm watching, typically evenings. However, as I become more efficient, the CFE reaches deeper in my pocket each time so it pretty much equals out. Were it not for the soft peso I'd be in a world of hurt.

You can only cut so many things, for example the computer desk with weather station has to run 24/7 on a UPS regulator, the usage with all associated things is 100W or 144KWH per billing cycle etc. The pool eats another 120 minimum, the pressure pump about 60 and more during the dry season when my gardener is watering a lot.

So, while it's lifestyle to a degree, a fair amount of it is necessary to maintain the estate. My ultimate solution will occur in July of next year, my owner was in town yesterday from Taiwan and I told him I'm leaving at the end of my lease and you can bet I won't be looking for a new house with a pool for starters.

Oh, forgot to ask the magic question: Why is Mexico almost the least efficient producer of power in the world? - just a suggestion, but maybe they could take some lessons, or cut the corruption.

(This post was edited by stevebrtx on Dec 19, 2011, 5:50 AM)

Rolly

Dec 19, 2011, 6:25 AM

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Re: [stevebrtx] Living costs in Mexico

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...or cut the corruption.
Corruption is rampant on both ends of the wire -- at CFE and with its customers stealing power.

Rolly Pirate

GringoCArlos

Dec 19, 2011, 10:41 AM

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Re: [brooklyn] Living costs in Mexico

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Here's some December 2011 grocery prices in Queretaro:

Bread - Bimbo Double Fiber, 567g: 23.00 pesos
There is a local Jewish bakery with a broad variety of whole grain pieces of bread which cost 1.50 to 3 pesos each.
Tostitos corn chips, 500 g Mega bag: 26.50
Pringles potato chips, large tube: 18.00
Cheerios cereal, large: 35.00
Corn Pops cereal, large: 38.10
slow cook oatmeal, kg: 16.00
honey, 670 g: 60.00 pesos
milk, 2%, 1 liter: 16.50
Rice Krispies Treats, 8 bars: 31.90
Bimbo whole grain snack bars, 6: 25.50
Boing apple juice small boxes: 2.95 ea
Jif crunchy peanut butter, 510g : 57.50
smoked bacon, San Rafael, 340g: 41.90
Imported Italian pasta, 500 g: 24.00
Hunts spaghetti sauce, 430g jar: 25.80 pesos
Hunts BBQ sauce: 28.00
1 liter Italian extra virgin olive oil, 78.00
Petales toilet paper, 4 large rolls: 21.45
Paper towels, jumbo rolls: 24.00
Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil,15 m2, 48.50 pesos
5 bars bath soap, Escudo brand: 28.50
AXE men's spray deodorant: 43.50
Oral B mouthwash: 42.00
3.8 liters Clorox bleach, 28.50
Brown rice, kg: 16.60 pesos
Canned black beans, 500g, 7.00
Crackets, MX version of Ritz crackers,6 rolls,19.90
large Swiss Lindt chocolate bar: 91 pesos (and no, I didn't buy it)
Squirt beverage, 2 liters, 12.80
bananas, kg: 9.20
tangerines, kg: 10.50
valencia oranges,kg: 8.45
red grapes, kg: 59.90
tomatos, kg: 16.45
roasting ears of white corn: 5.00 pesos ea
canteloupe, kg: 12.95
white potatoes, large, kg: 14.90
Imported California strawberries, box: 42.00 pesos
Local strawberries, kg: 30.00 pesos
jalapeno chiles, kg: 13.45
grapefruit, kg: 9.90 pesos
onions, kg: 5.70
asparagus, kg: 56.00
3 stalks of trimmed hydroponic lettuce, bagged: 41.00

I buy my eggs off of a farm truck that services restaurants and small shops, tray of 30 eggs for 30 pesos

2.5 cm thick ribeye steaks and pork chops from a friend who is a butcher, trimmed and delivered, 100 pesos/kg & 90 pesos/ kg. Marinate on the countertop for 2 hours with a mixture of olive oil and 6 crushed garlic cloves, blot dry and throw on the BBQ. Whole tilapia costs 38 pesos/kg. Chicken runs 35-45 pesos/kg. Whole frozen turkeys were 38 pesos/kg.
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other stuff:

750 ml Gran Centenario reposado tequila, 165 pesos
750 ml Don Julio reposado tequila, 290 pesos
MX beers, 6 pack: 60 to 100 pesos
Marlboro cigarettes, pack of 20: 38 pesos
Marlboro cigarettes, pack of 14: 28 pesos

18 liters bottled water, delivered to the kitchen, 24 pesos + 4 peso tip
1.5 liter bottled water in the store: 9 pesos
600 ml Coca Cola: 8.50 pesos
A large bunch of flowers costs 50 to 100 pesos.
Large Poinsettia plants for Christmas cost 40 pesos each.
Movie tickets cost 35 pesos (matinees), 50 pesos (regular adult admission) and 75 pesos (3D movies). Large popcorn is 30 pesos.
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Cable TV and 5mg cable internet = 540 pesos/month. (I pay for 6 months and receive 7 months service)
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Not sure about others power complaints. In my area, CFE service has had only 4 or 5 brief outages (15 min to 1 hour) in 5+ years. I do use a cheap voltage regulator for the computer equipment, and have never had a problem with any household electrical equipment. I do disconnect the computer if we have lightning storms in the area.

I guess I must live like a poor Mexican. 18 cu ft refrigerator, a microwave, computer equipment is on for 16 hours daily, the TV is on for about 4 hours daily and I have 4 outside lights on all night. Most light fixtures have fluorescent bulbs. No A/C or fans needed, no swimming pool, no hot tub and a gas water heater. My last CFE bill for 10 Oct-09 Dec showed 233 KWh usage, for a total cost to me of 227 pesos. I have averaged 275 kWh usage every two months for the past year.
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A cylinder of gas lasts 5-8 weeks and costs 330 pesos, delivered, installed + tip. My water bill averages 12 m3 per month, and total cost less than 100 pesos/month. Outside laundry service costs about 700 pesos / month for wash, dry, ironing and delivery.
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Medical stuff:

Regular doctor visits here are 400 pesos, cardiologist visit for a checkup and an EKG is 800 pesos, other medical specialists run 500-700 pesos. I had a laser procedure performed by a dermatologist, and cost was 500 pesos for the visit and treatment.

One nice change is that for most medicines, you do not need a prescription from a doctor in order to buy the medicine. You can buy them directly at the pharmacy without needing to go back to the doctor (and paying for the visit) for the prescription in most cases. Most doctors, including specialists, will also give you an appointment for non-emergency visits within a day or two, and you won't sit in their waiting room for an hour, or two, or three before going in to see the doctor.

Dentist visit with cleaning is 600 pesos. A gold crown cost 4000 pesos in September. Dental implants cost 15-20,000 pesos each, depending on your dentist's experience. A panoramic x-ray of the mouth costs 200 pesos. A 1 hour consultation with a respected. experienced lawyer cost 200 pesos (and the lawyer visit was not about one of my doctors ! :-)

(This post was edited by GringoCArlos on Dec 19, 2011, 11:09 AM)

Gringal

Dec 19, 2011, 4:20 PM

Post #20 of 102 (17120 views)

Re: [GringoCArlos] Living costs in Mexico

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Maybe it's just me, but it looks like a lot of imported "junk food" on that list........and you must be going to the pricier medical and dental folks. For example (no names here) a cleaning with the best equipment at a respected dentist: 300 pesos. Doctor (general practice) 200 pesos.

Personally, I think that chocolate is worth it, though. LOL.

Judy in Ags

Dec 23, 2011, 4:55 PM

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Re: [brooklyn] Living costs in Mexico

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I don't know the prices of a lot of things, but I know the price of beef has more than doubled in the almost nine years we've lived here in Aguascalientes. It may still be cheaper than Canada??????

mazbook1

Dec 23, 2011, 5:31 PM

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Re: [Judy in Ags] Living costs in Mexico

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I don't know where the beef in Aguascalientes comes from, but I've been buying my beef at my neighborhood meat market (I'm the only gringo in the whole neighborhood) for over 12 years and have only seen a relatively small price increase (when you index the peso price to the U.S. dollar exchange rate.) Actually, I haven't paid a whole lot of attention, except to make that particular comparison. What was $80 per kilo is now about $120 per kilo, but the exchange rate back then was around 9 to 1 and now it is around 13/13.5 to 1 making the price 8.90/kilo then and 9.23/kilo now, only a 3.7% increase. That makes the cost to me just about the same (in dollars), which means that since beef prices NOB have certainly gone up in that time, my beef here is even cheaper in comparison now than it was then.

arbon

Dec 23, 2011, 5:38 PM

Post #23 of 102 (16896 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] Living costs in Mexico

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In Reply To

I don't know the prices of a lot of things, but I know the price of beef has more than doubled in the almost nine years we've lived here in Aguascalientes. It may still be cheaper than Canada??????

I would sincerely hope so. ....ROTFLMAO
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

esperanza

Dec 23, 2011, 5:54 PM

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Re: [mazbook1] Living costs in Mexico

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I buy in pesos. The dollar/peso exchange rate is unimportant to me. In 2007, I was paying 40 pesos per kilo of excellent ground beef. Today I pay 90 for the same quality. That's more than double.

Doing all that higher math to convert pesos to dollars and blah blah blah is just a mental exercise. What matters is the actual price of the item on the shelf.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

mazbook1

Dec 23, 2011, 6:15 PM

Post #25 of 102 (16885 views)