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toni

Nov 26, 2011, 2:29 PM

Post #1 of 30 (2349 views)

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Tax Liability in Mexico

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I am a US citizen, have recently moved to Mexico & am working by telecommuting for a company in the US (business only in Ohio & Michigan). Now my employers are telling me they don't want anyone working outside the US borders for 2 reasons: 1. because they will be responsible for paying taxes to the Mexican government and 2. are concerned about not having international workers comp. I am currently here on a tourist visa. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I prefer to allay their fears rather than move back NOB or try to find another job. Thanks!



mazbook1


Nov 26, 2011, 5:48 PM

Post #2 of 30 (2304 views)

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Re: [toni] Tax Liability in Mexico

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There are many, many ways that you can disguise the fact that you are online on the Internet in México. I see folks discussing this (for many different reasons) on various México forums. That would be the simple answer, find out how to do this (I'm not that Internet literate, but I could probably find out how to do it in less than an hour), then tell your employer you are no longer working for them from México. It's really that simple and not illegal, assuming that they pay you by deposit into your U.S. bank account, rather than wiring the money to you in México. Actually, their fears are totally unfounded; as long as you are not working for wages being paid IN México, México would have no reason to tax income earned and paid in the U.S. If you were to ever legally work for wages (or any payment) paid in México, the tax liability changes drastically, but a foreign employer paying in a foreign country STILL has no liability.


(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Nov 26, 2011, 5:50 PM)


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 8:12 AM

Post #3 of 30 (2230 views)

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Re: [toni] Tax Liability in Mexico

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You are breaking the law if you are working in Mexico on an FMM (tourist)...


donemry

Nov 27, 2011, 8:40 AM

Post #4 of 30 (2222 views)

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Re: [toni] Tax Liability in Mexico

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I would be very cautious about accepting legal advice from unknown people on an internet forum.


RickS


Nov 27, 2011, 8:46 AM

Post #5 of 30 (2222 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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This is just a question, not a confrontation.....

Are you sure that Mexican law specifically says that a tourist may not engage in 'Telecommuting' while on Mexican soil? By telecommuting I am referring to the use of Internet, telephone and/or fax devices to conduct business with and for a non-Mexican entity that resides outside of Mexican borders?

If this truly is the case, then there are a ton of people breaking Mexican law (not unheard of, of course) while they vacation 'on the Mexican beach' and keep in touch with their livelihood on a daily basis. Many companies now-a-days "require" one to stay engaged even when on vacation (or at least many A-types think this is a requirement!).


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 8:54 AM

Post #6 of 30 (2215 views)

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Re: [RickS] Tax Liability in Mexico

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I did not say people did not break the law, in Mexico you need an FM3 just to
volunteer....


DavidHF

Nov 27, 2011, 9:27 AM

Post #7 of 30 (2205 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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I believe neither of your statements to be true. One does not need an "FM3" in order to volunteer. BTW, there IS no FM3. One breaks the law if one is employed in Mexico and receives income in Mexico.


YucaLandia


Nov 27, 2011, 10:15 AM

Post #8 of 30 (2186 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Tax Liability in Mexico

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Since "FM3" supposedly does not exist, we better tell INM and Aduana to stop using "FM3" in their current websites and publications. *grin*

Expats who are full time residents approved by INM are required to report all worldwide income to Hacienda.
Income taxes paid to the USA are credited against what is owed to Mexico.
There is a big difference between what many expats do vs. what they are required to do.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 1:58 PM

Post #9 of 30 (2144 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] Tax Liability in Mexico

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On my FMM I received d 2 weeks ago there is 2 spots to check, 1 for No inmigrante and 1 for Inmigrante and they are both preceded by FM3 and FM2...........

Work is work!


Here is a site from Mazatlan describing the volunteering status, you even have to have an FM3 to belong to the Peace Corp in Mexico...

http://www.pacificpearl.com/archive/2009/june/feature1.htm


Yacatecuhtli


Nov 27, 2011, 2:13 PM

Post #10 of 30 (2137 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To
work is work

Would that mean that if one checks their US work email or takes a conference call while in Mexico on vacation with an FMM they are breaking the law because they are working in Mexico ?


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 2:27 PM

Post #11 of 30 (2124 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To

In Reply To
work is work

Would that mean that if one checks their US work email or takes a conference call while in Mexico on vacation with an FMM they are breaking the law because they are working in Mexico ?


Yes, if it is how you make a living then we call it work.........
I do not work, I am retired, every day is Saturday........


Bennie García

Nov 27, 2011, 2:42 PM

Post #12 of 30 (2112 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To

Yes, if it is how you make a living then we call it work.........
I do not work, I am retired, every day is Saturday........


Who is "we"?


Yacatecuhtli


Nov 27, 2011, 2:47 PM

Post #13 of 30 (2108 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To
In Reply To

In Reply To
work is work
Would that mean that if one checks their US work email or takes a conference call while in Mexico on vacation with an FMM they are breaking the law because they are working in Mexico ?

Yes, if it is how you make a living then we call it work.........
I do not work, I am retired, every day is Saturday........



I can see the new ads by the SECTUR (SECRETARÍA DE TURISMO) now where the American from NY is on the beach in Cancun with his wife and kids for xmas vacation and he answers an email on his Iphone and the cops come and haul him away for "illegally working in Mexico"

Maybe Calderon can work it into the tour guide series he is doing.......

For some reason I don't think Gloria Guevara Manzo would go for it.



! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


chinagringo


Nov 27, 2011, 2:54 PM

Post #14 of 30 (2095 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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On the new FMM form, there is a box to check if you are visiting Mexico for work and another for business. How does this option play into this conversation?
http://www.rollybrook.com/fmm.htm
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



(This post was edited by chinagringo on Nov 27, 2011, 2:55 PM)


tonyburton / Moderator


Nov 27, 2011, 3:24 PM

Post #15 of 30 (2081 views)

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Re: [toni] Tax Liability in Mexico

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According to Mexican Taxes by Raoul Rodriguez-Walters, CFP® Mananging Partner, Mexico Advisor, the answer to your question depends on two things: "legal residence" and "tax residence".

The following quote is from that link (from the section "Mexican taxes", linked to from the left-hand column):

"Legal residence and tax residence are two different concepts. The first is related to the authorization, generally from the immigration authorities, to be in Mexico for a given period of time. This authorization comes is various forms, typical examples of which are evidenced in a tourist card or an FM-3. Tax residence, on the other hand, is defined in the tax law and tax treaties. The distinction between who is a Mexican tax resident and who is not is important because generally non-residents are subject to higher taxes than tax residents."

"In 2004, the Mexican Fiscal Code (the “Code”) established a new definition of “tax resident,” as anyone who has established an abode in Mexico, irrespective of the time he or she has spent in the country. The Code also stipulates that if you have one home in Mexico and another abroad, you are considered a tax resident of the country where you have your “center of vital interests.” Mexico considers that your center of vital interests is in Mexico if over 50% of your income is derived from Mexican sources or if you are employed (or self-employed) in Mexico."

"There are two main repercussions for a foreigner in Mexico as regards tax residency. The first is that tax residents are supposed to register to obtain a tax ID, known as an “RFC” and file an annual tax return reporting worldwide income. The second, and perhaps more of an immediate concern to many foreigners who own real estate in Mexico, is the ability of the foreign national to obtain a tax exemption on the sale of their Mexican residence. This income tax exemption is outlined in the section of the Mexican Income Tax Law applicable to tax residents and is clearly meant to benefit taxpayers who have been complying with their Mexican income tax obligations."

"The good news is that with proper financial planning you can permanently and legally live in Mexico without acquiring a Mexican tax ID, filing a tax return or paying income taxes on foreign income (Mexican source income is still subject to tax). By doing so you may give up the benefit of lower Mexican taxes available to tax residents but you will gain a greater level of peace of mind.
"


RickS


Nov 27, 2011, 4:19 PM

Post #16 of 30 (2067 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] Tax Liability in Mexico

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When I first saw Tony post this, I thought, "Oh boy, an answer!". However after reading it twice, I don't know any more than I did before. IMO the original contention is not addressed.... that an "FMT" holder, working for a non-Mexico located company and having their pay deposited in a non-Mexican bank, is breaking the law if they or their company don't pay taxes to the Mexican government.

This talks of a tax resident as 'one who has established an abode' (whatever doing that entails). Most folks holding an 'FMT' do not own a home in Mexico.

(This post was edited by RickS on Nov 27, 2011, 7:04 PM)


Yacatecuhtli


Nov 27, 2011, 4:26 PM

Post #17 of 30 (2066 views)

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Re: [RickS] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To
When I first saw Tony post this, I thought, "Oh boy, an answer!". However after reading it twice, I don't know any more than I did before. IMO the contention that an "FMT" holder working for a non-Mexican company and having their pay deposited in a non-Mexican bank is not addressed.

This talks of a tax resident as 'one who has established an abode' (whatever doing
that entails). Most folks holding an 'FMT' do not own a home in Mexico.



Yes it is.....its called centre of vital interests.....


"In 2004, the Mexican Fiscal Code (the “Code”) established a new definition of “tax resident,” as anyone who has established an abode in Mexico, irrespective of the time he or she has spent in the country. The Code also stipulates that if you have one home in Mexico and another abroad, you are considered a tax resident of the country where you have your “center of vital interests.” Mexico considers that your center of vital interests is in Mexico if over 50% of your income is derived from Mexican sources or if you are employed (or self-employed) in Mexico."

In the example you give.....(
"FMT" holder working for a non-Mexican company and having their pay deposited in a non-Mexican bank is not addressed) the centre of vital interests is NOT Mexico

Abode: a dwelling or residence (you dont have to own it......)


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 4:49 PM

Post #18 of 30 (2054 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Tax Liability in Mexico

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Yucatecuhtli, I may be getting old and my eyesight is getting worse but please point out the part where the OP states he or employer is depositing funds in a US bank???????

He is only expressing his employers concerns......

And quoting a line with FMT is going back a ways since now we have FMM's.


(This post was edited by chicois8 on Nov 27, 2011, 4:58 PM)


chinagringo


Nov 27, 2011, 4:59 PM

Post #19 of 30 (2050 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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chicois8:

Please read the OP where he states he is on a tourist visa but as I pointed out, we have no idea which box he checked when obtaining the tourist visa.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



tonyburton / Moderator


Nov 27, 2011, 5:10 PM

Post #20 of 30 (2045 views)

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Re: [RickS] Tax Liability in Mexico

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"This talks of a tax resident as 'one who has established an abode' (whatever doing that entails). Most folks holding an 'FMT' do not own a home in Mexico."
in which case, and assuming he keeps a home somewhere else, he's fine (so far as Mexican tax authorities are concerned).


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 5:14 PM

Post #21 of 30 (2042 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To
chicois8:

Please read the OP where he states he is on a tourist visa but as I pointed out, we have no idea which box he checked when obtaining the tourist visa.


That is why at 8:12 this morning I wrote:

You are breaking the law if you are working in Mexico on an FMM (tourist)...


DavidHF

Nov 27, 2011, 5:27 PM

Post #22 of 30 (2036 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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Wrong again; he's not earning money from a Mexican source and he's not receiving income in Mexico.


Yacatecuhtli


Nov 27, 2011, 5:30 PM

Post #23 of 30 (2036 views)

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Re: [chicois8] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To
Yucatecuhtli, I may be getting old and my eyesight is getting worse but please point out the part where the OP states he or employer is depositing funds in a US bank???????

He is only expressing his employers concerns......

And quoting a line with FMT is going back a ways since now we have FMM's.


Chicois8, you will note that I responded to and quoted ricks not the op.


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


chicois8

Nov 27, 2011, 5:48 PM

Post #24 of 30 (2019 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Tax Liability in Mexico

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Like I said a few messages back, it's all moot, his employer is pulling the plug out from under him with his tax and workers comp concerns........

Notice the OP has not returned to this thread to comment or add additional information, come on toni lets see post #8 in a year+............

I would bet many folks bought homes when FMT were around just like many folks buy property and homes now on an FMM....


(This post was edited by chicois8 on Nov 27, 2011, 6:05 PM)


esperanza

Nov 27, 2011, 5:51 PM

Post #25 of 30 (2015 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Tax Liability in Mexico

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In Reply To
There are many, many ways that you can disguise the fact that you are online on the Internet in México. I see folks discussing this (for many different reasons) on various México forums. That would be the simple answer, find out how to do this (I'm not that Internet literate, but I could probably find out how to do it in less than an hour), then tell your employer you are no longer working for them from México. It's really that simple and not illegal, assuming that they pay you by deposit into your U.S. bank account, rather than wiring the money to you in México. Actually, their fears are totally unfounded; as long as you are not working for wages being paid IN México, México would have no reason to tax income earned and paid in the U.S. If you were to ever legally work for wages (or any payment) paid in México, the tax liability changes drastically, but a foreign employer paying in a foreign country STILL has no liability.

The line that I have italicized and made bold is the line that most concerns me in this discussion. Is this poster suggesting that the employee hide her IP in order to lie to her employer? Sounds like it to me.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com







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