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donemry

Nov 26, 2011, 8:50 AM

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Driving at night

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I just saw it again in another post, "don't drive at night". We have been driving to and from PV for the last six years. We also occasionally make day trips to other cities. On many of these trips, we do drive at night and have never encountered the usual "culprits", rocks and cattle.

Does anyone here actually have a first person account of issues with driving at night or is everyone simply repeating the same warning for all these years without questioning..



Rolly


Nov 26, 2011, 9:06 AM

Post #2 of 20 (2639 views)

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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I suspect the latter.

Rolly Pirate


cbviajero

Nov 26, 2011, 9:27 AM

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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I live in GDL and IMO you are more likely to be robbed or hit by a drunk driver at night,that said I still drive at night just more carefully.
Chris


esperanza

Nov 26, 2011, 9:29 AM

Post #4 of 20 (2628 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Driving at night

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When I lived at Lake Chapala, a friend was staying with me for a winter weekend. Her flight back to Mexico City left the GDL airport at 6AM--which meant she had to be there before daylight. I drove her to the airport, left her there, and headed back for Ajijic while it was still dark. As I came around one of those mountain curves (where the road sign reads "Camino Sinuoso"), I was horrified to see a herd of eight very large very black cows blocking the road. I slammed on the brakes and swerved as much as I dared, they scattered to get away from me, and when my heart stopped jumping, I went on home. Made a believer out of me! I sometimes still drive country roads at night, but always with my eyes wide open and at a slower speed than my usual bat-out-of-hell.




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chinagringo


Nov 26, 2011, 9:30 AM

Post #5 of 20 (2625 views)

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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How about approaching the question from the opposite direction. What part of driving at night is a positive and makes good sense? Rocks and cattle on the highways? Certainly a possibility both in Mexico or NOB in areas that are open range or have highways through hills or mountains. Driving at night can expose one to more DWI types no matter where one is. Wrong way drivers or drivers without lights can be a problem anywhere at night. I doubt that anyone would question the fact that highways in Mexico tend to have less lighting and lesser signage than those NOB. And then you have the infamous topes which can be much harder to spot at night.

Personally, I have no problem driving at night in Mexico when I am in an area that I am very familiar with but I feel that I am asking for trouble when I don't have that familiarity and am trying to find my way.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Vichil

Nov 26, 2011, 1:20 PM

Post #6 of 20 (2577 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Driving at night

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I took some people to the airport at 4 am a couple of days ago and I went pretty slowly on the way going down the hill in the direction of Itzlahuacan and past a curb I had to sway out of the right lane as there were a bunch of cows there. For that reason alone I do not like to drive at night. I barely made them out at the last minute.
As CGl says you cannot spot the topes or obstructions or holes in the road as well and there are roads I would not drive at night. Once we got hit by some metal in a very deserted road during the day and I sure would not have wanted to stay by the side of that road for 4 hours waiting for helpat night, bad enough during the day.
I just do not drive at night unless I have to and only on roads I know, the lack of traffic does not make up for the problems that I could encounter.


chinagringo


Nov 26, 2011, 6:19 PM

Post #7 of 20 (2533 views)

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Re: [Vichil] Driving at night

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As you know, we used to own a home in Villas Lomas Ixtlahuacan. When we went to dinner in the Lake area, we would often return well after dark and often experienced cattle on the highway. It was so common that when we reached the crest of the hill, we immediately slowed down to a crawl. This was before the new intersection at the village of Ixtlahuacan where we often experienced cattle. Now that I think about it, I made that same trip in late August leaving Chapala at 4:30am and didn't see many cars on the highway. That said, we have seen less "road kill" on that highway since the early 2000's. Is it the lesser traffic at night?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Anonimo

Nov 27, 2011, 1:24 AM

Post #8 of 20 (2509 views)

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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Pedestrians, bicyclists, often dressed in dark clothing, darting out and crossing the road suddenly. Those are good reasons to avoid driving at night if possible.

There's a curving stretch of highway between Pátzcuaro and the road that turns off to our home often with free range cattle and horses. I call it "Dead Horse Curve" as carcasses are not infrequent.

Another caution is to not drive in fog, but we have done it often and survived. But on one foggy morning, enroute to Morelia we saw two vehicular accidents in quick succession, and one dead cow along the divider.


robt65

Nov 27, 2011, 5:27 AM

Post #9 of 20 (2496 views)

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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I also have driven at night both around the San Juan del Rio and the city of Queretaro in and around the area of Tequisquiapan as well as driving at night from Parts of 57 (North of San Luis Potosi) on my way home from NOB. My biggest concern (like others on this post) is not the cartel activity but the large farm animal and walking (or stumbling) drunks.

I remember very well on one trip between San Juan del Rio and Altamira near a small town of “Florida” somewhere past Tula headed East, a galloping white (thank goodness) horse came barreling out of the thick brush to my right and headed up the two lane road ahead of, and towards me. That really caught my attention and then a mile or so later a stumbling drunk coming up the road in the same direction. I have always thought the drunk was probably told by his horse that he had enough and was probably bucked off or never got up in the first place! Both instances were pretty scary. I have also met with small herds on the road after coming around a curve. So for those reasons alone, I try not to travel at night unless it is really necessary.

robt65


(This post was edited by robt65 on Nov 27, 2011, 5:33 AM)


Reefhound


Nov 29, 2011, 7:43 AM

Post #10 of 20 (2369 views)

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Re: [robt65] Driving at night

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Driving at night is much more dangerous than in the day. Your field of vision is less, your accident and fatality rate is many times higher, and there are many more hazards. And not just in the U.S.

Mexico may be especially hazardous but night driving is riskier than day driving no matter where you are. I saw a pamphlet from State Farm once that said there are 50,000 car/deer collisions annually costing hundreds of lives and millions in damages. The same caveats hold true everywhere.

I've driven at night in Mexico many times. I understand there are risks and night is not when I would go off exploring a new rural route. But it annoys me when people give canned advice to "never" drive at night in Mexico (often from someone who has little or no firsthand experience driving in Mexico). I think basic precautions and safe driving habits are enough to make driving in town or on familiar freeways reasonably safe.


chinagringo


Nov 29, 2011, 8:22 AM

Post #11 of 20 (2362 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Driving at night

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Good point about driving at night anywhere. The "don't drive at night mantra for Mexico" really does make sense for the totally inexperienced and the infrequent traveler. Heck in some of the heavy Gringo populated areas, they don't even drive enough during the day to be considered experienced Mexico drivers. A ten mile drive is considered a major road trip!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



jrpierce


Nov 29, 2011, 2:43 PM

Post #12 of 20 (2314 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Driving at night

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LOL Neil. I agree that driving at night is ALWAYS less safe than driving during the day wherever one is, though I think that is true especially in Mexico. In contrast to the US, for example, inspections for vehicle problems and police enforcement of such rules is far more strict than here. I've had the experience here in Mexico of rolling along at 110 k per hour and suddenly having an old car in front of me with no lights going around 20 or 30k per hour. It can be pretty scary.

I agree that driving in commerical areas of cities at night, especially when lit by street lights, is quite safe, however otherwise I avoid it even on familiar roads. I do think for visitors to Mexico who are not experienced drivers here, the never drive at night rule is a good one.

Jim


robt65

Nov 29, 2011, 5:48 PM

Post #13 of 20 (2282 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Driving at night

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Hello Reefhound,

I think you must have my response mixed up with someone else's response when you said. . . . . . . . . . "But it annoys me when people give canned advice to "never" drive at night in Mexico (often from someone who has little or no firsthand experience driving in Mexico)."
I don't think I gave any canned advice to anyone. I think in my response I said "I try not to travel at night unless it is really necessary." . . . . .

Having lived in "open range country" as a cattle ranch owner in NE Washington State, I can tell you there are many accidents in "Open Range Country" but at least you have a brand on the cattle that will lead you to the owner . . . . . . . however in "open range country" it is the driver that is at fault in most of those "open range country states" as they are posted such.

As for deer, moose, bear and other such large creatures of mother nature, and yes they can be a real mess, but for goodness sake never, but never wash off the evidence of blood or hair, from your vehicle. Doing so can cost you a bunch from your insurance company if they raise your rates. Photo the remains of your car right away, with all the blood and hair and guts you can see. If you do that and then show the photos to the repairing facility, who will in turn report it to the insurance company, and if you were smart enough to call in a police report and insist they come to the scene, you will not be "charged" as a normal accident with another car, and your rates will not be raised. This comes from personal experience.

robt65


Reefhound


Nov 30, 2011, 6:40 AM

Post #14 of 20 (2228 views)

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Re: [robt65] Driving at night

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I know you and most others here have plenty of firsthand experience driving in Mexico. I was not referring to anyone here as giving canned advice but to the various advice columns often seen in travel publications and such. And while such advice may be ok to start for someone with no Mexico experience I just think they are a little extreme and don't explain the practicalities as well as has been done here. They don't differentiate between driving on a rural mountain road versus a well lit urban highway. Too often they leave a distorted sense of reality, much as the media does for the risk of cartel violence happening to tourists.


YucaLandia


Nov 30, 2011, 10:02 AM

Post #15 of 20 (2196 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Driving at night

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I suspect that we each have had different driving experiences in Mexico, and each driver is then entrenched in their perspectives: some casual and confident, others cautious. For expats with limited driviing experience in Mexico, consider how Mexico is different from Canada or the USA. If you have driven on the very poor Rosebud or Pine Ridge reservations, you might have some sense of the surprises that occur at night on Mexican roads.

Do we expect to suddenlly to find ourselves on a 5 mile section of freshly paved highway on a slightly winding road that we've driven a hundred times? What if there are no lines of any kind painted, and it is a very dark moonless night? Consider that you can't see the dropoffs at the edges of the pavement because the construction removed all roadside markers and signs. Then consider that the other drivers also cannot see where their lanes are and can barely see the fresh black pavement on a black night. This causes drivers to weave from the left shoulder over to the right,crossing your "lane", due to the curves and no lines. We spent a white-knuckled half hour driving 10 mph negotiating this stretch of highway, much worse than any Midwestern blizzards we've encountered.

Do we expect to round a curve on a 2 lane road to find two double semi-remolques - side-by-side - coming head-on at you in your lane with no shoulders to pull off onto? Double-trailer rigs are very long and they take a long time to pass each other? And this happens on a well traveled road that you know well, but that out-of-state truck driver does not know the road.

Do we expect to drive off an unmarked un-signed 10 inch dropoff on a modern 4-lane divided highway just a mile out of town in a flat smooth section of expressway? Your car has just dropped into construction zone of a heavily potholed section of gravel road, throwing your car sideways into a skid?

Do we expect to be cruising along a modern highway with broad shoulders, and round a curve to find a mattress in the roadway, an oncoming car, and a local guy with a load of lena pedaling his carguero on the shoulder?

Do we expect to be passing a double semi-remolque on a beautiful well-maintained modern 4 lane toll road, and find that the shoulder has been replaced with a high curb and there's now a 6 foot chunk of curled 8 inch wide rubber from a re-tread tire that delaminated in your lane, and you have no way out, except to run over the chunk of tire and suck it up into your motor and then your suspension?

Do we expect to round a curve on a beautiful mountain highway at night to find an unmarked section where 3/4's of the roadway has been washed out by a that afternoon's flash flood - in a section that you just drove that morning?

Do we expect to encounter a Junior driving his Ferrari at 305 kmph to show-off for his friends who are video-ing the idiot for internet posting.

Things are DIFFERENT here. There are few policeman patrolling the roadways to remove road hazards. There are few policemen here to enforce passing laws, and speeding laws. Many drivers here do not secure their loads, and stuff falls-off without their notice. There is a mix of state-of-the art OTR rigs going 70 mph and 5 mph indiginos hauling bicycle loads of firewood back home to mama after an evening of drinking balche at their milpas. There seems to be no system of marking or signing construction, and sections of super highways can go weeks without having lines painted.

I've been driving at night here on and off for 26 years, and found that even experienced drivers who know Mexico and Mexican roads very well can get big surprises at night, even when driving "safe" boring roads that they know like the back of their hands, because the levels of policing, maintenance, and standards are just not like Canada or the USA.

If you are somewhat uncomfortable or surprised with routine daytime driving events in Mexico - dodging unexpected potholes - junk that falls off peoples' loads - animals on the roadway - etc, then I would think twice about driving in the countryside at night. We tend to follow a well experienced professional driver, like an OTR or bus driver, who sit's up high, sees further, and knows the road well, when driving highways at night in Mexico.
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Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


esperanza

Nov 30, 2011, 10:47 AM

Post #16 of 20 (2185 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Driving at night

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Absolutely terrific and right on target, every word.

I forgot to mention the day in 1997 that I was driving between Taxco and Oaxaca while the then-new highway was still partially under construction. I was first in the line of traffic that was suddenly flagged to a stop by the construction crew...while a bulldozer nudged a boulder the size of my vehicle slowly, slowly, over the cliff above me. The boulder rolled down, down, down...and stopped just feet from the front of my car. Everyone in the waiting line of vehicles gave the bulldozer driver a round of applause.




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Altahabana


Nov 30, 2011, 2:28 PM

Post #17 of 20 (2150 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Driving at night

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"[E]ven experienced drivers who know Mexico and Mexican roads very well can get big surprises at night, even when driving "safe" boring roads that they know like the back of their hands"

That is as concise an explanation as I have ever read about why NO ONE should drive at night outside well lit, metropolitan areas.


rockydog85251

Dec 1, 2011, 5:33 PM

Post #18 of 20 (2061 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Driving at night

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We just completed a drive from Comala, Colima to Oaxaca today & let me tell you it was a real adventure this time, which was the 2nd time we have done this!!!! We took the newly competed Arco Norte & that was just fantastic, like all have posted.....however, just past Tlaxcala, we got caught up in that traffic mess due to the fatality accident involving the gasloline tanker on there!! YIKES!! The road was going to be closed for at least another 4 hrs & we were due in Puebla at our hotel around 6 pm......otherwise we would have arrived well before dark. Well, we ended up taking some of the back roads through the country & of course it was well after dark when we arrived in Puebla. As we rounded one curve, there was a young lady walking along the 2 lane road, in the pitch black, wearing dark clothing & it was all I could do to miss her as there was an oncoming car. And I was not going very fast due to the curves on the road. Just be VERY careful when travelling after dark!
Willie


dstan

Dec 2, 2011, 10:30 AM

Post #19 of 20 (2002 views)

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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Many years ago, on a dark moonless night, a friend of mine was driving the highway south out of PV at a good speed. As he was crossing a bridge he didn't see the tractor ahead of him with no lights. With nowhere to swerve he hit the tractor. My friend could not leave the scene because the driver was seriously injured and he just couldn't leave him alone to die. He did eventually die and it cost my friend big bucks, and some time in jail. Moral, if you drive at night don't drive fast!


donemry

Dec 3, 2011, 8:02 AM

Post #20 of 20 (1951 views)

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Re: [donemry] Driving at night

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I have read all of the anecdotes above. Driving anywhere has an element of risk. So the probability of an accident while driving in Mexico at night may be somewhat higher than in the rural areas of the US and Canada. I will continue to drive and stay cautious.

However, driving is never safe. In the link below is the report of a 50 car pileup during the morning commute on a 4 lane divided highway here in the middle of Tennessee.

http://cmsimg.tennessean.com/...mp;Maxh=465&q=60
 
 
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