Forums > Areas > Jalisco's Lake Chapala Region

twelveoaks

Nov 19, 2011, 9:02 AM

Post #1 of 20 (2753 views)

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what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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I just read an article in the Guadalajara Reporter about the fact that the new director of IMSS in Ajijic is denying coverage to some long time enrolles as well as out right dropping some who have paid regularly into the program for years. Also, I have heard that for someone in their mid sixties that has high blood pressure ( me ) even if it is controlled with medication that person would be denied enrollment in IMSS. Along with many other attractive reasons for moving to Ajijic the IMSS coverage was one of the major attractions. Any thoughts on this ?

chinagringo

Nov 19, 2011, 9:59 AM

Post #2 of 20 (2739 views)

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Re: [twelveoaks] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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A minor correction here: the Director is in Chapala and not Ajijic.

A little research on IMSS would reveal that this system is basically broken and in financial trouble. I am guessing that they are talking a hard look at just who is burdening their system. In the case of the Gringos at Lake Chapala, the shear numbers of older folk paying a minimal amount for health care must be skewing the payouts. Like any insurance system, I am again guessing that the system is designed to count on the more healthy participants paying annual premiums without burdening the system.

I would also imagine that there may be a "nationalistic backlash" about wealthy Gringos taxing a system originally designed for the Mexican people?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Axixic

Nov 20, 2011, 6:58 AM

Post #3 of 20 (2653 views)

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Re: [twelveoaks] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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In Reply To

http://guadalajarareporter.com/news-mainmenu-82/lake-chapala-mainmenu-84/30001-imss-denying-expats-chronic-disease-care.html

"Ajijic lawyer Adriana Perez said that she met with high-level IMSS officials in Guadalajara just this week in an attempt to sort a host of problems expats have experienced over recent months in regard to administrative procedures and patient management.

She said that the officials appear to agree that Melgoza has overstepped the boundaries of her authority in canceling health care coverage for some expatriate beneficiaries and denying certain services and regular meds to others. They indicated that persons who have been enrolled in IMSS for more than three years cannot be expelled from the system automatically without being sent for a full medical evaluation beforehand. Persons who have enjoyed long-term coverage with no restrictions should continue qualifying unless doctors are able to determine that they suffered from chronic conditions prior to enrollment."

"Essentially, as Melgoza explains it, under voluntary IMSS affiliation, beneficiaries qualify for treatment and free medication (when available) in cases of acute illness and emergency health crises, and little else."

IMSS says the director was wrong to kick people out who have been enrolled more than 3 years without an examination but it doesn't say the Chapala director is wrong in her interpertation of the law.

If you moved here for IMSS medical care that isn't emergency care, you better have another option for any chronic condition such as move back home. Mexico will probably make these rules more stringent and enforced throughout the country. Why should Mexico pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of pesos, to care for old foreigners who only paid a small amount into their system and clog up their system? Many of these foreigners can afford to see a private doctor and pay for their own medicines but they want to milk the system to get all of their $300 USD a year back.

La Isla

Nov 20, 2011, 9:47 AM

Post #4 of 20 (2620 views)

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Re: [Axixic] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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Why should Mexico pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of pesos, to care for old foreigners who only paid a small amount into their system and clog up their system? Many of these foreigners can afford to see a private doctor and pay for their own medicines but they want to milk the system to get all of their $300 USD a year back.

If that's truly the case, then I say to these retirees, Shame on you!

Axixic

Nov 20, 2011, 11:14 AM

Post #5 of 20 (2605 views)

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Re: [La Isla] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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If that's truly the case, then I say to these retirees, Shame on you!

I'm not an IMSS member but I know people who think they got away with something by lying on their applications about preexisting conditions. They are the one's who will be surprised when IMSS lets them pay for several years and then boots them out for those same preexisting conditions that would have kept them out in the first place. They think seeing a Mexican IMSS doctor is O.K. but think the doctors are too stupid to recognize a preexisting condition.

Others will go to IMSS for a slight fever and free aspirin rather than pay $40 MX to see a private doctor. They want to make sure they get their money's worth out of that small annual fee they paid. Pitiful. IMSS should be for expensive emergencies only and that is what the laws says IMSS is for foreigners.

I think the abuses and expenses are why IMSS has decided to start enforcing the laws Lakeside. I bet other Mexican areas with fewer old foreigners are still providing full service but that might also stop soon.

La Isla

Nov 20, 2011, 11:22 AM

Post #6 of 20 (2600 views)

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Re: [Axixic] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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Others will go to IMSS for a slight fever and free aspirin rather than pay $40 MX to see a private doctor. They want to make sure they get their money's worth out of that small annual fee they paid. Pitiful. IMSS should be for expensive emergencies only and that is what the laws says IMSS is for foreigners.

If IMSS for foreigners is supposed to be only for expensive emergencies, then why do the Mexican doctors let them get away with seeing them for a slight fever and free aspirins?

Chapala Payaso

Nov 20, 2011, 12:01 PM

Post #7 of 20 (2593 views)

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Re: [La Isla] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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I wonder what the outcome was for those switching to seguro popular?

rockydog85251

Nov 20, 2011, 1:30 PM

Post #8 of 20 (2575 views)

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Re: [Chapala Payaso] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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As a naturalized Mexican citizen, I did sign up for IMSS but I do go to private Drs. as needed but will hold IMSS as my "ace" in case of a major problem. The Dr's care is sooo reasonable for most foreigners, they should be greatful to have that available. I also know of some retirees that don't have a lot of resources NOB or here and I do not hold usage of IMSS against them. But like Isla, I do tsk-tsk others that take advantage of any system when they really don't have to so so.
Just my 2 pesos worth...........
Willie

Axixic

Nov 20, 2011, 4:53 PM

Post #9 of 20 (2548 views)

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Re: [La Isla] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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If IMSS for foreigners is supposed to be only for expensive emergencies, then why do the Mexican doctors let them get away with seeing them for a slight fever and free aspirins?

They just started cracking down on the type of care available for voluntary members of IMSS at Lakeside. People who receive IMSS through their employment can still be treated for anything.

Not treating foreigners with chronic problems, or insignificant problems, is what started the thread. Now only acute and emergency care is now available to voluntary members of IMSS.

chinagringo

Nov 20, 2011, 5:34 PM

Post #10 of 20 (2540 views)

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Re: [twelveoaks] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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Take a look at the following video and one soon figures out what the problem is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUk6MeOGGA0
A full five minute video shot in San Miguel de Allende and it is all about cost including health care!

If one stops and considers just how many Gringos who purchased or made the move to the Lake Chapala area, it was drilled into their heads how cheap living in Mexico is. Lame developers, property promoters and real estate agents all use the health care costs as a selling tool. While they may look fairly close at such costs as property taxes, daily cost of living, the cost of eating out in restaurants, etc.- they take the cost of IMSS as a given since that was used as a selling tool. Once there, paying $300 or so for IMSS is a given and it is an entitlement. As an aside, many of these same people criticize the entitlement programs in the US and Canada but it is OK in Mexico because it justifies "life on the cheap"! These same people will complain about the services they don't receive while bragging how little they pay in property taxes.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

joaquinx

Nov 21, 2011, 5:14 AM

Post #11 of 20 (2493 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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These same people will complain about the services they don't receive while bragging how little they pay in property taxes.

And for cooks, maids, and gardeners.
_______
My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane.

La Isla

Nov 21, 2011, 9:13 AM

Post #12 of 20 (2454 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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If one stops and considers just how many Gringos who purchased or made the move to the Lake Chapala area, it was drilled into their heads how cheap living in Mexico is. Lame developers, property promoters and real estate agents all use the health care costs as a selling tool. While they may look fairly close at such costs as property taxes, daily cost of living, the cost of eating out in restaurants, etc.- they take the cost of IMSS as a given since that was used as a selling tool. Once there, paying $300 or so for IMSS is a given and it is an entitlement. As an aside, many of these same people criticize the entitlement programs in the US and Canada but it is OK in Mexico because it justifies "life on the cheap"! These same people will complain about the services they don't receive while bragging how little they pay in property taxes.

People like that give the rest of us expats a bad name!

twelveoaks

Nov 21, 2011, 10:20 AM

Post #13 of 20 (2437 views)

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Re: [La Isla] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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Since I am the one that initiated this thread I feel it necessary to add a few more thoughts.It is true that there are companies in Mexico and Ajijic specifically that specialize in getting people to move to Mexico/Ajijic. They tout low property taxes, low restaurant costs, inexpensive labor such as gardeners, house keepers and cooks and also the low cost of health care and excellent quality of IMSS.along with great weather and friendly people. I think it would be naive to underestimate the importance of lower cost of living as one of the major if not THE major reason for moving to Mexico for most people. When you consider that retirees are generally in their early to mid sixties and on medicare or Canadian health care IMSS becomes very important if they are to immigrate to Mexico and not being able to enroll in same is a major problem for them. I have friends in Ajijic, Queretaro, etc. that are enrolled in IMSS as a back up catastrophic plan only and do pay out of pocket for daily health care issues and surgeries that they can afford. It is unfortunate that the few screw it up for the many but isn't that the way in most things ? I am hoping that this issue will be resolved and limits placed on the program or some other measure that will stop the abuse. In the mean time it is important that the people contemplating a move to Mexico/Ajijic are made aware of this serious problem.

Axixic

Nov 21, 2011, 12:35 PM

Post #14 of 20 (2414 views)

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Re: [twelveoaks] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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If people use IMSS as a backup plan for emergencies like heart attack or gall bladder surgery, they will be covered. If they want IMSS for cancer treatments or any other long term care, they will be denied.

Three hundred USD a year for acute illness or emergency care is still cheap. I don't know where they can buy insurance for emergencies for less than $300 a year anywhere else.

If people had not taken advantage of the system and clogged up the IMSS office with every little problem, demanding constant attention and free medications, maybe IMSS would have continued to ignore the rules but it didn't work out that way because of too many selfish, cheap people wanted to get 10 times their $300 worth out of the system.

NEOhio1

Nov 21, 2011, 1:33 PM

Post #15 of 20 (2393 views)

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Re: [Axixic] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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I don't think it was 'clogging' up with minor complaints. The finances are precarious and its time to follow the rules because the system reached the tipping point in relation to the presence of foreigners. So they sent in an enforcer to clear it out and see where the program stands. Good for them. I have always objected to the use of IMSS by non-nationals. Yes I know the system gives you the opportunity however unless you are on track for citizenship I view accessing Mexico's social services as similar to your showing up on my town's doorstep and needing medical care.....who are you to get what you haven't supported. $300 a year is not support, its taking advantage of a system not meant to handle your last years medical needs. Personally I don't see Seguro Popular as a legitimate option for the same reasons. Not a citizen, buck up and pay your freight by using your own dime and not Mexicos. JMO

CanuckBob

Nov 21, 2011, 2:01 PM

Post #16 of 20 (2384 views)

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Re: [NEOhio1] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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Canada (as an example) will offer any immigrant the same services and more so maybe Mexico should only offer IMSS to immigrants that come from countries that reciprocate?

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com

chinagringo

Nov 21, 2011, 2:27 PM

Post #17 of 20 (2373 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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CB:

What are you doing be so sensible and logical? There are those who would argue that the US already extends health benefits to immigrants and they are evening the score SOB.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

tonyburton

Nov 21, 2011, 4:08 PM

Post #18 of 20 (2353 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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True, but (unlike Mexico) getting permanent residency status in Canada (unless you are a refugee) involves "passing" a complete medical exam to try to ensure you won't be a future burden on the state...

CanuckBob

Nov 21, 2011, 5:14 PM

Post #19 of 20 (2335 views)

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Re: [tonyburton] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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Well I doubt it could be as tough as you would think. I have seen elderly "freshly arrived" immigrants 20 deep at the clinics and hospitals in Vancouver. Heck, Canada even throws in a living allowance, tax breaks and a host of other subsidies to the new immigrants. I'm hoping that if I stay in Mexico long enough I can return to Canada as an immigrant and collect some of this dole.......jajaja.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com

gbatrucks

Nov 22, 2011, 8:06 PM

Post #20 of 20 (2225 views)

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Re: [Axixic] what's the deal with IMSS in Ajijic and Jocotopec ?

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I've had IMSS coverage for 6 years. I've never used it & keep it as a back up as do, I believe, most gringos. No one asked me to take a physical when I enrolloed, they just asked me for my money. It seems that THAT would have been the time to weed us out, not years down the road. BTW, if our wonderful US Government that required us to pay into medicare, would allow us coverage here (at much less cost to the tresurary than if we go back to the U.S.) we wouldn't be having this discussion, but that's a whole other subject.
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."