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davidkrug

Oct 2, 2011, 9:59 PM

Post #1 of 43 (4318 views)

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My Take On How To End The Drug War

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I'm sure to get smothered with different opinions on this but I thought I'd share anyhow.

Here's my take on how to bring an end to this senseless violence.

http://davidkrug.org/the-mexican-drug-war/

Open to lively discussion and feedback.

Retirement: World's longest coffee break. ~Author Unknown
Visit Me Online at: DavidKrug.org



Axixic


Oct 3, 2011, 1:15 AM

Post #2 of 43 (4289 views)

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Re: [davidkrug] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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I agree with you but U.S. greed will not stop selling arms and neither will its gluttony for drugs.


Sculptari

Oct 3, 2011, 2:14 AM

Post #3 of 43 (4283 views)

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Re: [Axixic] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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It has been my understanding that this has been a cultural war, more than anytihng. Things will become clearer with next year's elections. This year's government seems to take a dislike to baggy pants, baseball capped entrepreneurs selling easy good times, without government handouts or endorsements. Shame on them. They should be working in sugar cane factories for $10 PER DAY, that will teach the btards! Plus the employee deductions only apply to a stronger motherland.
no longer active on Mexconnect


Gringal

Oct 3, 2011, 6:04 AM

Post #4 of 43 (4257 views)

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Re: [Sculptari] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Ken Burns did a series on Prohibition. It was on last night on PBS and will continue for several more episodes. The "absolute shall" of people wanting to change other people's habits has some nasty unintended consequences. Prohibition was an excellent example.


stevebrtx

Oct 3, 2011, 6:17 AM

Post #5 of 43 (4248 views)

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Re: [davidkrug] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Opinions vary, the "war" will end when the Mexican people want it to.


Bennie García

Oct 3, 2011, 6:20 AM

Post #6 of 43 (4246 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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In Reply To
Opinions vary, the "war" will end when the Mexican people want it to.


Such a simple and obvious solution. Why hadn't someone thought of it before?


chinagringo


Oct 3, 2011, 6:35 AM

Post #7 of 43 (4240 views)

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Re: [davidkrug] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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And then you have another clown's solution:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...n_2012/#.Tom4SFtvEqE
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



davidkrug

Oct 3, 2011, 6:47 AM

Post #8 of 43 (4235 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Yep US Politicians both Dems and Repubs crave "invading Mexico". Partly to search for new oil fields under the guise of calming the violence....

The US would never do that would they ?

Retirement: World's longest coffee break. ~Author Unknown
Visit Me Online at: DavidKrug.org


donemry

Oct 3, 2011, 8:56 AM

Post #9 of 43 (4194 views)

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Re: [davidkrug] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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In Reply To
Yep US Politicians both Dems and Repubs crave "invading Mexico". Partly to search for new oil fields under the guise of calming the violence....

The US would never do that would they ?


No.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1948787,00.html


stevebrtx

Oct 3, 2011, 10:33 AM

Post #10 of 43 (4167 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Well Bennie, the police, Feds, military haven't stopped, or fixed the problem, doesn't leave much else now does it?


richmx2


Oct 3, 2011, 11:39 AM

Post #11 of 43 (4147 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Is there a problem, or only a perception of a problem creating a problem? I once speculated that the "problem" for the wealthy user countries is not the product, but the control of the market: when the exploiters are the users (as with gold, silver, coffee, sugar...) -- even though control of those products has caused wars, and massive human rights abuses, in the producer countries -- it is not a "problem". However, with narcotics, much more of the control of the market is in the hands of the producers.

I considered this possibility (and don't claim that it's either an original thought, nor a complete one) that the U.S. and "first world" concerns with narcotics have more to do with who controls production here and here.

Of course, my pie in the sky solution would have the user countries screaming, and might indeed get us invaded: nationalize the narcotics production and export trade (PotMex?) and let those who have been running the industry now keep running it as civil servants and presidential appointees. Sure, they'd be skimming and swindling the state as has been the case with another state owned commodity exporter (which before nationalization was the source of tremendous violence in this country, and afterwords only of illicit enrichment of some individuals... though also of a decent public service sector and better working conditions for the commodity workers).

That, or spend a fraction of what's spent now on the "war" (including the costs of incarceration and "law enforcement" in the U.S.) and just pay the growers to go out of production... grow trees and call it "biosphere protection" if it bothers ones conscience to do so.


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


CanuckBob


Oct 3, 2011, 2:32 PM

Post #12 of 43 (4116 views)

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Re: [richmx2] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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RichMx, marijuana is a very small part of this business now a days. Today it is mainly cocaine and crystal meth. The latter being one of the most destructive poisons to ever hit the drug scene. This one has to be stamped out. Not ever legalized or government controlled.........

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com


salto_jorge

Oct 3, 2011, 3:39 PM

Post #13 of 43 (4104 views)

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My Take On How To End The Drug War

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One must look at the history of drug usage and how long it has been around.
Drugs have been used in many cultures for religious purposes, for cures, in drinks plus more.
Some examples
  • Laudanum, prescribed for everything from headaches to tuberculosis even given to children, cheaper than gin !
  • Paragoric, prescribed for tooth aches, always cured the pain.
  • Secret mixture, Merchandise No. 5, In the old days this was found in a soft drink.
  • Ganja, Smoked my many poor folks in USA and Jamaica years ago before moving to the west.
  • Liquour, Cannot leave this one off, some nations take pride their production based on sources that exist in their country.


The USA could be the largest consumer of drugs due to the fact that people have more money laying around to purchase it plus the population base.
Other countries in the world are equals in consumption of these substances for many purposes, this includes the major producers including Mexico.



One thing for sure, it has been going on for a long time and many countries have had to deal with the the supply and demand for drugs in the past.
Maybe the indulgance/desire for mind expanding substances is wired in the human brain, just like the behavior of other animals.


Wars, that is a topic unto itself. Seems like the humans have had wars for one thing or another since the early days.


The real issue is how to save ourselves and our countries, Mexico and USA and Central America.
What happens south of the USA will eventually happen in the USA.
THE USA must save its own population base, find jobs for all those who were born in the USA.
The USA is composed of people from the rest of the Americas, when people migrate to the USA what they experience as children will come with them.
The children/Youth need to be saved, given jobs and leave the employment of those involved with the production and distribution of drugs.







http://en.wikipedia.org/...nabis_use_by_country

http://www.forcon.ca/...ning/drug_abuse.html

http://www.buzzfeed.com/.../drug-use-by-country

http://www.pbs.org/...s/buyers/whoare.html


(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Oct 3, 2011, 3:51 PM)


YucaLandia


Oct 3, 2011, 4:14 PM

Post #14 of 43 (4091 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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salto_jorge is right:
Between paragoric and laudanum preps, grandma and grandpa may likely have been opium addicts, and the coke in coca cola really was cocaine from coca leaf extracts. By the time of Prohibition, Americans were drinking like fish compared to other industrialized countries: every US adult averaged 4 gal of pure alcohol per year according to Ken Burns documentary - 4X higher drinking rates before Prohibition than now - for an average of 853 beers per US adult per year - maybe double that if half the country were tea-totalers?

This points to a century of heavy substance abuse by many Americans, so, why should American appetites suddenly moderate now?
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Oct 3, 2011, 4:29 PM)


Maxmilliano

Oct 4, 2011, 7:04 AM

Post #15 of 43 (4017 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Marijuana is still the majority of the drug trade revenue at an estimated 8.6 billion dollars in revenue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603847.html


CanuckBob


Oct 4, 2011, 7:46 AM

Post #16 of 43 (4001 views)

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Re: [Maxmilliano] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Max, since the discussion was on the Mexican drug war I was referring to drugs coming through and out of Mexico not the total production of drugs in NA. As your article states the Mexicans are providing far less mota, from Mexico, than in the past and their focus has turned to the harder more destructive drugs.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com


chinagringo


Oct 4, 2011, 7:47 AM

Post #17 of 43 (3999 views)

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Re: [Maxmilliano] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Before concluding that marijuana is the majority, one might want to review a very different opinion:

http://www.samefacts.com/...crime-organizations/

Not saying that this person is accurate but it does point to the possibility that these reports are based upon differing assumptions.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Maxmilliano

Oct 4, 2011, 10:14 AM

Post #18 of 43 (3956 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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What the article says is "it is marijuana that has long provided most of the revenue for Mexican drug cartels. More than 60 percent of the cartels' revenue -- $8.6 billion out of $13.8 billion in 2006 -- came from U.S. marijuana sales, according to the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy"

This is despite increased domestic production of the herb. As the article says marijuana sales are pure profit for them and regardless of other sources of revenue on the increase it is still probably the largest single source of drug revenue. If this source of revenue could be circumvented by legalization it might have a crippling affect on the business model.


Maxmilliano

Oct 4, 2011, 10:19 AM

Post #19 of 43 (3956 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Interesting but this boils down to drug sales revenues vs. non drug related revenues. How the heck do the "experts" accurately estimate non drug related revenues from extortion, kidnappings, robberies, pirated music and video, etc., etc.?


CanuckBob


Oct 4, 2011, 10:37 AM

Post #20 of 43 (3951 views)

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Re: [Maxmilliano] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Max, those stats are from '06. I'm talking about '11 and beyond. Yes, I believe the percentages have changed dramatically over the past 5 years. With the border crackdowns, the crystal meth and cocaine are far easier to smuggle across given they are worth far more money, lb for lb. I also believe the appetite for these two drugs has risen NOB.

Regardless of that, my only point here was to illustrate that we are not just talking about "harmless" mota (yes I agree that should be legalized or at least de-criminalized NOB) when we are discussing the "drugs wars" in Mexico :>)

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://www.insidelakeside.com


chinagringo


Oct 4, 2011, 12:22 PM

Post #21 of 43 (3927 views)

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Re: [Maxmilliano] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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It would seem that some logic (or at least my form of logic) is in order. Any of these studies are suspect because:

They appear to be "best guess" statistics based upon marginal information on both sides of the border. After all, the cartels certainly are not reporting their sales. In fact, they probably don't have accurate accounting for just what contributes to their cash flow & profits. They simply care that the vast sums of money are flowing in! On the US side, what percentage of the incoming product is actually being caught? Law enforcement might like to state an increasing percentage to show their increased effectiveness but how do we know this to be true?

A Google search turns up many studies but since the landscape is constantly changing as the cartels revise their business models. Under that assumption, a study from even one year ago is probably full of errors in real time. When we see numbers from 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 or even 2010, they cease to be valid in a discussion today.

You also have the bias established by whether or not the author or authors happen to be in either the "pro legalization" or "anti legalization" camps. We would like researchers to be totally unbiased but that is a "pipe dream"!

Overall, people on both sides of the border are worn out by the so-called "War on Drugs" and many seem to want to opt out by supporting the legalization of all drugs. An easy solution to the problem? Maybe? But few have thought the entire matter through and have even bothered to ponder the implications behind legalizing meth, heroin, cocaine and various future designer drugs!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



richmx2


Oct 4, 2011, 1:40 PM

Post #22 of 43 (3911 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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While "PotMex" is tongue in cheek, but the same holds true for cocaine or meth.... PERHAPS the "problem" for the consumer countries' governments being "first worlders" do not control manufacturing or the means of production. As it is, meth depends on raw materials from China and Mongolia, and the finishing work is for the U.S: market, not the domestic Mexican one. Cocaine is transported through Mexico, but it is a South American product.

Opium (and its derivatives) certainly were "respectable" drugs back when it was mostly produced in British India, and not denying that there are dangers with unregulated opium use. When the opium trade was subject to international regulation, its interesting that Australia was allowed to continue producing opium and even expand production (it's a major crop in Tasmania) whereas Sinaloa was not.

Bolivia, as far as I can tell, is the only country where narcotic sales were an important export, but whose export production has declined sharply, mostly though the simple expedient of paying subsidies to farmers not to grow, finding alternative uses for the stockpiles, and tossing the DEA and other foreign narcotics interdiction agencies out of the country. Of course, the U.S. government keeps seeking to "punish" Bolivia as a result, but they seem to be doing quite well without the "help".

Not to say that people here (or in China or Mongolia or Bolivia) don't have their own forms of "mood-altering substances", only that the wealthy counties, dependent on those substances from places like Mexico and Bolivia, seem to only have a problem when they lose control of the production. And, a problem when the "organic" substance competes with those produced by pharmaceutical firms (think of pylocibin or the push to regulate Salvia). Or


http://mexfiles.net
http://mexicobookpublishers.com


jrpierce


Oct 4, 2011, 3:54 PM

Post #23 of 43 (3888 views)

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Re: [richmx2] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Well, of course the statistics can be nothing more than "guesstimates," however as I continue to see reports about tons of Mexican marijuana being seized by Mexico and/or by the US, I have no doubt that it is still an important revenue source for the Mexican cartels. Whether it is 60% or 40%, I'd love to see the cartels denied that revenue.

Jim


Reefhound


Oct 4, 2011, 4:39 PM

Post #24 of 43 (3875 views)

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Re: [jrpierce] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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Will the cartels just throw up their hands over the loss of that revenue or will they do "whatever it takes" to replace it?


Bennie García

Oct 4, 2011, 4:47 PM

Post #25 of 43 (3866 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] My Take On How To End The Drug War

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What would the replacement be? Kidnapping? 15000 victims paying 1 million usd each makes 15 billion. Gonna be hard to find enough victims able to scrape up that kind of dough.
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